What do you like to do with Wood Shape and Stone Shape?

[Coidzor]

I was looking into what I could do with the spell during some downtime, and couldn't quite tell what exactly the cut-off on fine detail is, since a basic chest seems like it wouldn't need any(other than maybe for hinges?) but it says only crude coffers and doors can be made.

So I'm curious to see how others have interpreted that component of the spell.

So far the most lucrative combination I've seen so far would be using Wood Shape to make a Greatclub and then using the cheesy and debated Blood Money+Masterwork Transformation combo. That's cheesy, though, as I said, so I want to do something nifty with the spell in a different direction.

I saw some mention of making a rowboat, if not to sell then at least for the party's personal use. That got me thinking, though, if a boat was too big for one to make in a single casting of Wood Shape, would multiple castings do it, so long as you had enough contiguous wood? So probably start with a tree or log.

Is there a way to get it to work with non-contiguous wood, or does it actually work with wood in separate pieces as long as they fit within the volume of the spell? I could see it going either way, so I'm really unsure on that front, which I think is hindering my own brainstorming.

Another question that came up, could a barrel be made from one solid piece of wood(aside from a separate lid and any taps), or does the pressure of the liquid inside necessitate the slats and reinforcement approach?

Finally, I was wondering if anyone has use Wood Shape to get the basic shape/raw structure of something, and then used Craft to finish it, and if so, how much time you generally skipped of the crafting process? In this case I was thinking about getting a door or chest and making them go from crude to fine or assembling the major components of a wagon or boat and assembling it.

[Togo]

Both spells are generally quite good to foil traps, if they're suspected.

Stone shape can be used to hide the party, assuming your dungeon includes natural stone and has a dead-end corridor.

[Stealth Marmot]

Honestly, they are the most badass way of making yourself a seat.



"Perhaps we need to sit down and discuss it."

*waves hand and sits as a 7 foot tall throne made out of stone forms out of the ground as he sits*



The higher the caster level the more awesome and intricate the designs of the raised throne are.

[Vogie]

My days as a druid loved wood shape
Messing up chariots, making a doorway, opening a hole in the floor/ceiling, fundamentally breaking some siege equipment. Warped the frame off of a door more than once.

As there are such things as dugout canoes, I would expect that turning a tree of appropriate width into a water-sealed Canoe wouldn't be that difficult. Same would go with the barrel, although it'd end up looking less like a barrel and more wooden rocks glass.

You could theoretically make a wagon with three castings- one for the wagon itself, one for a pair of wheels connected by an axel, and the third for another pair of wheels connected by an axel.

RAW states "one existing piece of wood" as the target, presumably so you can't grab a quiver and destroy all the arrows. However, it should allow you to divvy up that one piece into smaller pieces so you could make a tree throne yourself
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Pete_in_garden_chair_01.jpg

[sleepyphoenixx]

I saw some mention of making a rowboat, if not to sell then at least for the party's personal use. That got me thinking, though, if a boat was too big for one to make in a single casting of Wood Shape, would multiple castings do it, so long as you had enough contiguous wood? So probably start with a tree or log.

Is there a way to get it to work with non-contiguous wood, or does it actually work with wood in separate pieces as long as they fit within the volume of the spell? I could see it going either way, so I'm really unsure on that front, which I think is hindering my own brainstorming.
With Wood Shape it's sadly a no to most cool things.

Target: One touched piece of wood no larger than 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level
You can only work with one piece that fits into the stated volume, so you can't really turn a tree into a boat.
Well, a rowboat should be doable, i haven't done the math on that. But there's a sharp size limitation.
You can turn parts of a tree into parts of a boat and assemble them by hand, but that's not nearly as cool as making the whole thing a single piece.

You can't really do anything with a real tree without cutting it into smaller chunks first, because 10 cubic ft +1/level isn't really that much when you're talking solid wood.
That one was a disappointment - i wanted my druid to shape living trees into houses, but it's a no-go.
It also doesn't let you meld two pieces of wood together, which was something else i wanted to do and found out i couldn't when i checked.

Sure, you can make crude wooden weapons, armor or shields if you need to equip a militia on the cheap. If you have wood pieces large enough.
You can warp a door so it either jams or to make any lock ineffective. You can warp open pretty much anything made of wood, in fact, as long as it's small enough.
A lock doesn't help much if it is no longer connected to the door.

Stone Shape on the other hand doesn't have the "single object" limitation, it's just limited by volume.

Target: Stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level
You can warp part of a larger stone object if you want. You should be able to meld several separate pieces of stone together too.
You can warp a tunnel into a stone wall. Or warp a piece of wall to cover a door. Or warp a broken down wall back together. Or turn a wall made from bricks into a solid wall. You can warp larger pieces with multiple castings.
It's also good for a secret entrance or a hideout you don't need to enter often. Nobody can find a hidden door if there is no door until you make one, and it prevents things slipping through with Gaseous Form or the like. Make it thick enough and it even blocks incorporeals or most divinations.


Another question that came up, could a barrel be made from one solid piece of wood(aside from a separate lid and any taps), or does the pressure of the liquid inside necessitate the slats and reinforcement approach?
A barrel shouldn't be a problem. The liquid isn't under pressure, the wood just has to be strong enough to not break under the weight of the liquid.
A bigger barrel will of course need thicker walls, but a normal barrel shouldn't be an issue.

[radthemad4]

I'm fond of making tiny holes in a wall (or floor or ceiling) to see what's in the next room. You could then follow up with another casting to make the hole bigger (or just make it big enough for this in the first place) and have a buddy throw a stinking cloud or something in there (if the hole has an area of 1 sq ft, you have line of effect) with a readied action.

If your DM is somewhat generous, they might allow you to 'spread out' the effects, e.g. using it to dislodge enough material from the front and back of a stone bridge to make the whole thing drop (or a larger portion of a wall, floor or ceiling than the volume normally allows, by only dislodging enough of the 'edges').


Honestly, they are the most badass way of making yourself a seat.
"Perhaps we need to sit down and discuss it."
*waves hand and sits as a 7 foot tall throne made out of stone forms out of the ground as he sits*
The higher the caster level the more awesome and intricate the designs of the raised throne are.:biggrin:

Yeah, just being able to make random objects on a whim is awesome.

[Coidzor]

Love the living sapling chair idea. Wouldn't have thought of that one, and it does seem really great.

And you can even make it portable with a large enough pot and soil and something to lug it around. Grow your own throne as ya go. :smallamused:


With Wood Shape it's sadly a no to most cool things.

You can only work with one piece that fits into the stated volume, so you can't really turn a tree into a boat.
Well, a rowboat should be doable, i haven't done the math on that. But there's a sharp size limitation.
You can turn parts of a tree into parts of a boat and assemble them by hand, but that's not nearly as cool as making the whole thing a single piece.

Hmm. I'll have to check with my DM with potentially houseruling that. Beyond what I was thinking and you had thought, there any issues you see from having it target like Stone Shape does?

Even without it, any ideas for craft time reduction from assembling several larger subcomponents and fitting them together, or examples of how you've done so in the past?


You can't really do anything with a real tree without cutting it into smaller chunks first, because 10 cubic ft +1/level isn't really that much when you're talking solid wood.
That one was a disappointment - i wanted my druid to shape living trees into houses, but it's a no-go.
It also doesn't let you meld two pieces of wood together, which was something else i wanted to do and found out i couldn't when i checked.

Now I'm wondering what sort of spell level the effect of fusing two or more objects of the same material together would be. Would it be a spell per substance, or perhaps affect different volumes based upon material, similar to Major Creation or True Creation? Feels like it should be lower than Wood Shape, at least for wood.

Also, trying to think of what the dimensions of a canoe would be, and pontoon boats. Mostly in terms of thickness.


Sure, you can make crude wooden weapons, armor or shields if you need to equip a militia on the cheap. If you have wood pieces large enough.

I suppose there's a transmute metal to wood spell that can serve as a basis for wooden weapons that aren't clubs, staves, greatclubs, or wooden hafts.


You can warp a door so it either jams or to make any lock ineffective. You can warp open pretty much anything made of wood, in fact, as long as it's small enough.
A lock doesn't help much if it is no longer connected to the door.

And, hey, free lock.

[danielxcutter]

Maybe you could use Stone Shape to loosen some of the mortar of the brick ceiling so the entire thing collapses on your enemies' heads? Even if that doesn't work that way, both Wood Shape and Stone Shape could potentially used to weaken wooden and stone structures respectively.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Hmm. I'll have to check with my DM with potentially houseruling that. Beyond what I was thinking and you had thought, there any issues you see from having it target like Stone Shape does?
No issues that i can see. I've houseruled it to work like Stone Shape in my games and haven't had any issues. As i said, as-written you can't really do anything cool with it which is a shame.
Most of the uses players want to put it to are just cool, not gamebreaking.


Even without it, any ideas for craft time reduction from assembling several larger subcomponents and fitting them together, or examples of how you've done so in the past?
I've given my players a 50% reduction in time needed to build a ship with it, but not out of any complex math or anything.
You'd still have to sand and assemble it, but i figure that doing the rough shaping with a spell takes away about that much of the time needed and it's a nice round number. That's close enough for me without bogging things down in too much realism.


Now I'm wondering what sort of spell level the effect of fusing two or more objects of the same material together would be. Would it be a spell per substance, or perhaps affect different volumes based upon material, similar to Major Creation or True Creation? Feels like it should be lower than Wood Shape, at least for wood.
Well, Stone Shape can do it. Fabricate can do it. I see no reason why Wood Shape can't. I'm not even sure the difference is deliberate or if the designers just didn't think about it.
As i said, i haven't seen any problems from it.


Also, trying to think of what the dimensions of a canoe would be, and pontoon boats. Mostly in terms of thickness.
Well i'm no expert, but i figure about an inch? That should be thick enough for a small boat like that. A ships planks are probably thicker, but i wouldn't know how much.
I assume a normal-sized rowboat with an inch thick hull would fit into the volume restriction, but that's just a guess.
I'll leave the math to someone who enjoys that kind of thing and is better at it than i am.


I suppose there's a transmute metal to wood spell that can serve as a basis for wooden weapons that aren't clubs, staves, greatclubs, or wooden hafts.
There isn't much call to make weapons out of wood when you have metal at hand. Unless you're really pressed for time and don't have fabricate?
But there's rules for inferior materials in A&EG, and if you need to arm a remote village somewhere wood is generally pretty easy to come by while metal isn't.
Shaping a few wooden breastplates and shields is a big boost to survivability for low level NPCs even if you can't cast Ironwood yet. Give them a normal club each and you have a pretty servicable militia.

[Coidzor]

Upon reflection, it seems like a canoe might be more do-able than even a rowboat, and canoes can be attached at least to a double rank, maybe a triple?


I'm fond of making tiny holes in a wall (or floor or ceiling) to see what's in the next room. You could then follow up with another casting to make the hole bigger (or just make it big enough for this in the first place) and have a buddy throw a stinking cloud or something in there (if the hole has an area of 1 sq ft, you have line of effect) with a readied action.

If your DM is somewhat generous, they might allow you to 'spread out' the effects, e.g. using it to dislodge enough material from the front and back of a stone bridge to make the whole thing drop (or a larger portion of a wall, floor or ceiling than the volume normally allows, by only dislodging enough of the 'edges').

Ooo, I like. Unfortunately still too low level to spam the spell like that, but does sound like a great reason to get a x/day item or wand

Hmm, hadn't thought of that idea. Definitely a nifty one. Thank you, I'll look into that line of inquiry. :smallbiggrin:


No issues that i can see. I've houseruled it to work like Stone Shape in my games and haven't had any issues. As i said, as-written you can't really do anything cool with it which is a shame.
Most of the uses players want to put it to are just cool, not gamebreaking.


I've given my players a 50% reduction in time needed to build a ship with it, but not out of any complex math or anything.
You'd still have to sand and assemble it, but i figure that doing the rough shaping with a spell takes away about that much of the time needed and it's a nice round number. That's close enough for me without bogging things down in too much realism.

Well i'm no expert, but i figure about an inch? That should be thick enough for a small boat like that. A ships planks are probably thicker, but i wouldn't know how much.
I assume a normal-sized rowboat with an inch thick hull would fit into the volume restriction, but that's just a guess.
I'll leave the math to someone who enjoys that kind of thing and is better at it than i am.


There isn't much call to make weapons out of wood when you have metal at hand. Unless you're really pressed for time and don't have fabricate?
But there's rules for inferior materials in A&EG, and if you need to arm a remote village somewhere wood is generally pretty easy to come by while metal isn't.
Shaping a few wooden breastplates and shields is a big boost to survivability for low level NPCs even if you can't cast Ironwood yet. Give them a normal club each and you have a pretty servicable militia.

Ah, thank you, that seems pretty nifty. Might try to argue for a 75-90% reduction for attaching two canoes together and taking care of the seats and maybe smoothing the hull.

That's about what I was thinking, the half-inch to 2 inch range, which appears to allow me to make a fairly decent length canoe. Thinking about making a little Catamaran for the party depending upon what the local fishing boats are. Need to look up to see if you can have a cargo/ballast outrigger.

True, but when you've got a hammer, you wanna pound some nails. This wooden breastplate idea has me intrigued, too. Need to look into those A&EG rules, then thank you.