ranger optimization question 3.5 core roles

[jk7275]

Hello
This is most likely an odd situation
I played a lot of 1st and 2nd edition along with rolemaster but when they came out with 3rd edition I pretty much stopped d&d and stayed with rolemaster. I didn't want to buy a new set of books,learn a new system and i felt d&d was getting too much like rolemaster

Recently I joined a group of players who never tried 1st edition and wanted to try. The DM wanted me as i had years of experience with 1st

Now it was decided that once we get to 4th level we switch over to 3.5 and use the core roles
I have a human ranger str 16 int 14 wis 15 dex 17 con 17 cha 12. the rest of the party will be another ranger, rogue , druid and cleric 1
I have to choose between archery and TWF and the other ranger is going to be an archery so I thought about going TWF
Based on what I been reading archery is better then TWF and I seen some discussions about 2HW is better then TWF.

The one thing I thought about trying but after reading up on the rules I realize that it probably be bad is taking TWF and use weapons like hand axes, dual wielding tomahawks has a certain appeal to me and something I would enjoy but I have a feeling it be bad build. I don't care if I do the most damage or not I just want to feel that I am pulling my weight in combat

I just like to hear from people tried both how do they compare and if they felt TWF was ok what weapons and feats did they use. Most threads I seen people are using builds that have feats from all the books

The one other thing Is i read that taking levels in rogue helps TWF as you get sneak attack. If so when do you take levels in rogue and how many levels

[Telonius]

In general, two-weapon fighting usually deals less damage than two-handed fighting, because two-handed fighting can make use of Power attack (while TWF is usually going to be wielding at least one light weapon, which doesn't work with Power Attack). Sources of bonus damage can mitigate this a bit, so things like Sneak Attack (or less commonly, other precision damage like skirmish) are usually used in TWF builds. The Ranger's Favored Enemy bonus can help as well, but you're not always going to be fighting stuff that's on your list.

One of the usual "optimization principles" is that if you're going to be mixing classes, and have a choice about what to take and when, you usually want to take the class with the higher skill points per level first. That's because you get those x4 skill points at first level. If you go Ranger1 then Rogue1 with 14 Int, you'd get 42 skill points by level 2: ((6+2)*4)+(8+2). If you took Rogue first, then Ranger, you'd end up with 48 skill points: ((8+2)*4)+(6+2)).

If you're going to be mostly a Ranger, you're getting the TWF feats for free. Weapon Finesse is usually a solid choice. Improved Initiative can help as well, if you've got Rogue levels. You get Sneak Attack against flat-footed foes (meaning, enemies you beat at initiative who haven't gone yet during the first round).

Unfortunately, beyond that, it's kind of tough to select feats in the PHB. The single most important feat for any sneak attack build is not from the core set of books. It's the "Craven" feat from Champions of Ruin. It allows you to add your character level to sneak attack damage. This adds up very quickly.

If you're not dead set on Rogue, one of our forum members (Saph) put together a really nice, core-only build called the Horizon Tripper several years ago. You might want to check it out here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-(Core-Melee-Build)).

[Troacctid]

If you're going melee, you can take the Two-Weapon Fighting style and use a two-handed weapon with armor spikes as the offhand attack. Or, alternately, you can take the Archery style and be a switch-hitter with the ability to go ranged in situations where it's beneficial.

For a core ranger, you should strongly consider going into a prestige class. Horizon Walker, Blackguard, and Assassin are all probably better than single-classing.

[ComaVision]

DISCLAIMER: I know you said core rules but the Ranger is a class that really benefits (and kinda needs) support from other books.

Dragon Magazine #326 has alternative Combat Styles for the Ranger, notably a 2H-centric one and a mounted combat one.

The main problem with TWF is that you need some sort of bonus damage to be viable. The Swift Hunter feat does that, by letting letting Scout and Ranger levels stack for Skirmish damage. You'd still need a way to get full attacks after moving though, and I don't think core has any. (Travel Devotion or a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian dip are the usual choices there).

For core only, the only Ranger-type build I'm aware of that reasonably functional at higher levels is the Horizon Tripper build (it will come up in a google search).