Cleric without DMM

[Jarmen4u]

Alright, so I know the whole DMM-a-bunch-of-strong-persist-spells schtick on clerics and how strong that makes them, but what if you're not allowed to use it? I have an 8th level Protection domain Cleric of Bahamut, and though he's moderately decent at supporting, he doesn't really have the full "build" to make him top tier. (Granted, this could easily be simply because I'm playing him wrong.)

Here's my myth-weavers sheet of the character: [x (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=874211)]

He currently is unarmored (difficult to find someone who can craft plate for a tiny pseudodragon) and without items (we're pretty poor right now, though some cash will be coming soon), hence the emphasis on the support role. He basically sits on the Druid's shoulder and buffs him.

So, any ideas? It doesn't matter if it's outlandish, the DM is an old crotchety guy who allows things arbitrarily based on how they sound, so it's kind of a toss-up. Though things like "buy unlimited Nightsticks for unlimited DMM" type shenanigans won't fly.

[GilesTheCleric]

Are you opposed to a different playstyle? All you would need to do is change your spells -- more BFC and SoD, fewer personal-range buffs. If you change to a control or caster approach rather than melee, you might find yourself being much more useful.

[Jarmen4u]

Are you opposed to a different playstyle? All you would need to do is change your spells -- more BFC and SoD, fewer personal-range buffs. If you change to a control or caster approach rather than melee, you might find yourself being much more useful.

What spells would you recommend? The main reason he doesn't do much is that I am currently playing two characters in this campaign. The druid and the cleric are both me. Generally the pseudodragon does minimal work, but if we're missing more than a couple players (fairly often), his job is to step up and contribute. At this point, that generally means to buff the druid quite a bit, as he currently is only a 5th level druid (MoMF prestige) so his spells are lacking.

I mention that because I find it often a bit difficult to juggle two fully built characters, especially when they're both casters. So any help as far as specific spells or spell combos would be great.

Important Note: The DM has allowed me to cast SELF only spells from the cleric onto the druid, since he is acting as something of a familiar/companion combo.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, that's not bad. If you can't find any Craft-capable NPCs you can always use Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight to boost your craft and craft it yourself. The selfbuff rule makes Divine Favor and Divine Might quite nice for the Druid, more-so on the next level (Quickened +3 Favor + Righteous Might). All-day buffs like Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon are of course a given.

Otherwise, Frostburn, Sandstorm and Spell Compendium (also Serpent Kingdoms) expand a Cleric's control options tremendously: Ice Slick, Dark Way, Nauseating Breath, Wall of Salt, etc. give you a good number of ways to split the battlefield and AOE save-or-X people and make your low level slots do work. In addition, Silence from Core is a tremendous multiuse spell (party sneak while smashing doors, no-save screwing spellcasters, cast on throwable objects for mobile field, etc.) and Shatter often has uses vs. monsters' typically nonmagical gear.

For damage, Conjure Ice Beast (particularly a stack of low level options) with their auras is decent DOT though don't expect the creatures themselves to do much other than Flank/Aid Another/Body Block on these levels. Summon Monster begins to offer versatile utility on these levels (summon things with useful spell-likes).

There's a good level 1 Teleport effect in Forges of War: Protective Interposition. Kinda like Benign Transposition with bonuses. Of course, all kinds of utility exists. The skill buff spells are tremendously useful for random skill uses as well.

[Jarmen4u]

Yeah, that's not bad. If you can't find any Craft-capable NPCs you can always use Guidance of the Avatar and Divine Insight to boost your craft and craft it yourself. The selfbuff rule makes Divine Favor and Divine Might quite nice for the Druid, more-so on the next level (Quickened +3 Favor + Righteous Might). All-day buffs like Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon are of course a given.

Otherwise, Frostburn, Sandstorm and Spell Compendium (also Serpent Kingdoms) expand a Cleric's control options tremendously: Ice Slick, Dark Way, Nauseating Breath, Wall of Salt, etc. give you a good number of ways to split the battlefield and AOE save-or-X people and make your low level slots do work. In addition, Silence from Core is a tremendous multiuse spell (party sneak while smashing doors, no-save screwing spellcasters, cast on throwable objects for mobile field, etc.) and Shatter often has uses vs. monsters' typically nonmagical gear.

For damage, Conjure Ice Beast (particularly a stack of low level options) with their auras is decent DOT though don't expect the creatures themselves to do much other than Flank/Aid Another/Body Block on these levels. Summon Monster begins to offer versatile utility on these levels (summon things with useful spell-likes).

There's a good level 1 Teleport effect in Forges of War: Protective Interposition. Kinda like Benign Transposition with bonuses. Of course, all kinds of utility exists. The skill buff spells are tremendously useful for random skill uses as well.

Regarding that first combination: Does wild shape stack with righteous might's size increase? Since I'm MoMF, I can change sizes a few degrees, so could I become, for example, a Huge creature, and then Righeous Might on myself to become Gargantuan? If not, would the spell's other effects work in wild shape?

[Zancloufer]

As a tiny Pseudogragon you wouldn't be very good at the "Buff and wade into melee" stick without shapechanging powers anyway. Being a little buffmonkey or BFC that sits on the Druid's shoulder isn't a terrible idea. The best "God Wizard" doesn't appear to be doing anything, but in reality makes quite a large difference.

Also question about the stats: You have 3d12+8d8 as your HD (which means level 11) but have your level listed as 8, and a Caster level of 5! So what level IS your character. Poison DC should also be at least 18, more if cleric level counts towards "HD for monster abilities (10+Con+2+1/2HD is the Poison DC on a Psuedodragon). If your cleric levels count also for that posion it might be a nasty trick (Flank a baddie with a [summoned] bear, put it to sleep, have bear maul helpless enemy).

[Eldariel]

Regarding that first combination: Does wild shape stack with righteous might's size increase? Since I'm MoMF, I can change sizes a few degrees, so could I become, for example, a Huge creature, and then Righeous Might on myself to become Gargantuan? If not, would the spell's other effects work in wild shape?

It's DM adjudication territory. Generally size increases don't stack but whether shapechange-effect counts as a size increase or setting a new base size is DM call. By RAW the other effects should work but it doesn't make much sense to gain size bonuses without increasing in size so one might very reasonably rule against it. Thus, "ask your DM" and "ask your DM".

Other stuff I couldn't list before I got home by the way:
- Laogzed's Breath which is basically just a better version of Nauseating Breath
- Venom Bolt which is a save-and-still-be-slowed line effect from a level 4 spell (Paralysis on a failed save)

[Jarmen4u]

As a tiny Pseudogragon you wouldn't be very good at the "Buff and wade into melee" stick without shapechanging powers anyway. Being a little buffmonkey or BFC that sits on the Druid's shoulder isn't a terrible idea. The best "God Wizard" doesn't appear to be doing anything, but in reality makes quite a large difference.

Also question about the stats: You have 3d12+8d8 as your HD (which means level 11) but have your level listed as 8, and a Caster level of 5! So what level IS your character. Poison DC should also be at least 18, more if cleric level counts towards "HD for monster abilities (10+Con+2+1/2HD is the Poison DC on a Psuedodragon). If your cleric levels count also for that posion it might be a nasty trick (Flank a baddie with a [summoned] bear, put it to sleep, have bear maul helpless enemy).

All of that might be a matter of me just not keeping a good eye on my sheet. I've had to level up both characters as well as helping others, and I often do this at night, so I make mistakes or forget to do things. As for the HD, the DM made the pseudodragon start with the standard 3 RHD from the monster block, and it began gaining class levels after that. It's technically a couple class levels behind the other players (we're level 9-10, he's 8). What do you mean by he's caster level 5? I might have made a mistake on the sheet, where did I put that?

[Zancloufer]

All of that might be a matter of me just not keeping a good eye on my sheet. I've had to level up both characters as well as helping others, and I often do this at night, so I make mistakes or forget to do things. As for the HD, the DM made the pseudodragon start with the standard 3 RHD from the monster block, and it began gaining class levels after that. It's technically a couple class levels behind the other players (we're level 9-10, he's 8). What do you mean by he's caster level 5? I might have made a mistake on the sheet, where did I put that?

Under the spells per day, the number of spells he has would be equal to a level 5 cleric. He does however have 3d12+8d8 HD which means 3 Racial HD and 8 cleric levels. What I don't get is the HD implies he has 3 RHD + 8 Cleric levels, but the "level 8" and his spells per day imply he is only level 8 total (so 5 CL).

[Jarmen4u]

Under the spells per day, the number of spells he has would be equal to a level 5 cleric. He does however have 3d12+8d8 HD which means 3 Racial HD and 8 cleric levels. What I don't get is the HD implies he has 3 RHD + 8 Cleric levels, but the "level 8" and his spells per day imply he is only level 8 total (so 5 CL).

Ah, I understand. Yeah, I guess I haven't updated the spells per day to reflect his recent levels (we leveled twice in the last week due to a thing). I say level 8 because he has 8 class levels, though technically with 3 RHD it would be 11th level. Does that make a difference in anything?