A world where monsters are common

[Hollysword]

I've been thinking... if having succubi everywhere is too much... why not any kind of monster? Having the odd hobgoblin in town might be good, no? I'm thinking... how about using Community Modifier from page 139 of the DMG, rolling a d6 and adding the modifier, and that's how many non-standard races living in the town. Doesn't have to be accepted, there can be citizens who don't like having monsters in town. If, after the modifier, the roll is 0, there are no non-standard races living there. Also, as with rangers and druids, on thorps and hamlets there is a 5% chance that the place has a lot of non-standard races, makes sense in out of the way places.

If this is a good idea, what would be a good list of non-standard races that might be found in towns?

What do you all think?

[hamishspence]

That's how Cityscape handles it - cities often have regions where "monstrous races" dwell - goblinoids mostly, sometimes orcs as well. They tend to be ghettos.

Kobolds are described as present but are not normally citizens though - living in underground warrens beneath the cities.

Lizardfolk and ogres are rarer, but among the most common after goblinoids and orcs.

[Hollysword]

Cityscape... I'll have to look into that.

I see, it gives details on how humanoid races like orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc, interact in a city. I'm kind of going deeper, and hoping to get some kind of table of % chance that exotic races like dryads, maybe elementals, specially... succubi... might appear in a given town.

[neriractor]

Hobgoblins are more "run the place" type of fellows, haven´t you considered just making a more "monstrous" world? pick a couple of cities you were going to put humans in and put hobgoblins and trolls in it, or a similar thing.

Even the succubus everywhere can be reasonable if properly explained, perhaps a nation venerated demons and tried to summon them constantly, with the passing of years the views on religion went laxer, demon summoning is still done but more carefully and a sizable portion of the population consists of native outsider demons that got too much material plane on them, loosing the Chaos and Evil tags but still having an inclination to those alingments.

[Karl Aegis]

So your NPC is a hobgoblin. What does that add to the character? Am I going to be interacting with it solely because it is a hobgoblin or because it looks like you've put enough thought into the character to decide it has a race? If the specific race doesn't add much to a character, you can give them superfluous details that will be forgotten quickly like, "they are a goblinoid" or, "they are a racial minority" or, "they aren't a [main settlement race]".

Unless the fact the character is a snake-man that shoots snakes out of the snake eyes on his snake arms outweighs the fact that he is depressed his wife eloped with a catfish in your world. Then you just marvel at his rippling pecs and don't even bother helping him get over his depression or finding his wife because a snake-man that shoots snakes out of the snake eyes on his snake arms will be able to solve his own problems, no?

[thoroughlyS]

If this is a good idea, what would be a good list of non-standard races that might be found in towns?
I think that in order for this concept to be immersive rather than detracting from the game, the 'monsters' that appear in towns should make sense.

Forming communities seems like a matter of course for basically all humanoids. This includes things like hobgoblins, lizardfolk, and even grippli. Whether or not these different races can live together is a more involved question, but I can't see it being altogether impossible.

The main reasons that these races usually don't intermingle, preferring to remain isolated, is that their worldview and culture are opposed to others. Hobgoblins don't want to live with humans, because their god has taught them that they should rule them instead*. Humans don't want to live with lizardfolk because they live in swamps and have a permissive attitude towards cannibalism. And grippli are frogs. That's not cool.

Then you get to things like monstrous humanoids or giants. These beings act very similarly to humanoids, but some of their needs or cultures are simply just too different for them to share a space with other races. A hill giant would need to eat every crop that a village could produce, and would break doorways trying to get into a church. Yuan-Ti would try to turn everyone else into snake people. That's not cool. I wouldn't want to live next to them, would you? But these beings could perhaps work together with others to overcome these hurdles (with snakes or without).

Then you get to things that live in the Prime, but are even more alien, like fey and aberrations. A dryad can never stray too far from her own tree, and is super protective of the surrounding area. So any settlements made near her couldn't be made using the surrounding wood. A bullette would tear up neighboring buildings just stretching its legs. Satyrs would get too randy, and start fighting because they are crazy, free-spirited, and have a mean right hook.

Then you get to things like elementals and outsiders. Elementals would be constantly surrounded with things that are so removed from their home plane (like trees and sky) that they would be driven mad from seeings things that weren't meant to be witnessed by earthen... eyes? feelers? What kind of sensory organs do elementals have? Can they even really interpret that kind of sensory data? What would an earth elemental feel in a pond?

And as for outsiders, like the succubus: While I could see special accommodations being made to house them - like a goblin tribe creating a den for a barghest to work from, or a cult creating a shrine to house a vrock - I don't see why they would just decide to stay in a mortal settlement. What desire could drive them to seek out a home in a place like that. It would be like a real life modern day human deciding to just live in a cave. No tools, no tech, nothing. Sure there are people who've done it, and there probably are people doing it, but it's just so weird.

And that's not even mentioning the inexplicable things from the far realm. *shudder* the far realm...
*Also hobgoblins have this really cool philosophy that each individual has a "radius of control" over which they can enact their will. A bunch of individuals working together can create a radius that far exceeds the sum of those individual's. And should two radii intersect, the one made by stronger people supersedes the other. So if humans didn't share this philosophy, the hobgoblins would just see that as a sign that their radius is definitely superior and just take over. Also, from an individual perspective, removing yourself from a community working together would be severely handicapping the area you can exert your control over, which really sucks (especially from a Lawful Evil ideology).

[Hollysword]

I think that in order for this concept to be immersive rather than detracting from the game, the 'monsters' that appear in towns should make sense.

Forming communities seems like a matter of course for basically all humanoids. This includes things like hobgoblins, lizardfolk, and even grippli. Whether or not these different races can live together is a more involved question, but I can't see it being altogether impossible.

The main reasons that these races usually don't intermingle, preferring to remain isolated, is that their worldview and culture are opposed to others. Hobgoblins don't want to live with humans, because their god has taught them that they should rule them instead*. Humans don't want to live with lizardfolk because they live in swamps and have a permissive attitude towards cannibalism. And grippli are frogs. That's not cool.

Then you get to things like monstrous humanoids or giants. These beings act very similarly to humanoids, but some of their needs or cultures are simply just too different for them to share a space with other races. A hill giant would need to eat every crop that a village could produce, and would break doorways trying to get into a church. Yuan-Ti would try to turn everyone else into snake people. That's not cool. I wouldn't want to live next to them, would you? But these beings could perhaps work together with others to overcome these hurdles (with snakes or without).

Then you get to things that live in the Prime, but are even more alien, like fey and aberrations. A dryad can never stray too far from her own tree, and is super protective of the surrounding area. So any settlements made near her couldn't be made using the surrounding wood. A bullette would tear up neighboring buildings just stretching its legs. Satyrs would get too randy, and start fighting because they are crazy, free-spirited, and have a mean right hook.

Then you get to things like elementals and outsiders. Elementals would be constantly surrounded with things that are so removed from their home plane (like trees and sky) that they would be driven mad from seeings things that weren't meant to be witnessed by earthen - eyes? feelers? What kind of sensory organs do elementals have? Can they even really interpret that kind of sensory data? What would an earth elemental feel in a pond?

And as for outsiders, like the succubus: While I could see special accommodations being made to house them - like a goblin tribe creating a den for a barghest to work from, or a cult creating a shrine to house a vrock - I don't see why they would just decide to stay in a mortal settlement. What desire could drive them to seek out a home in a place like that. It would be like a real life modern day human deciding to just live in a cave. No tools, no tech, nothing. Sure there are people who've done it, and there probably are people doing it, but it's just so weird.

And that's not even mentioning the inexplicable things from the far realm. *shudder* the far realm...
*Also hobgoblins have this really cool philosophy that each individual has a "radius of control" over which they can enact their will. A bunch of individuals working together can create a radius that far exceeds the sum of those individual's. And should two radii intersect, the one made by stronger people supersedes the other. So if humans didn't share this philosophy, the hobgoblins would just see that as a sign that their radius is definitely superior and just take over. Also, from an individual perspective, removing yourself from a community working together would be severely handicapping the area you can exert your control over, which really sucks (especially from a Lawful Evil ideology).

A book said dryads make great gardeners in towns, so I guess it's not too farfetched to see one in a large town or city. Hobgoblins may try to be superior to humans, but since when are humans not the same to each other?

As for elementals, I don't see what's wrong with earth elementals mingling with mountainside towns, or water elementals in coastal villages. Specially if they shape themselves to look like humans (slime girl, anyone?).

And outsiders... live in the world long enough and it should rub off on them eventually.

PS: I wouldn't mind living with a yuan-ti, or a vampire, or a succubus, or an elemental. I can't say I'm evil, myself (whenever games give me moral options, I just can NOT pick the evil paths), but I just love those races.

[John Longarrow]

Really liking the races and having a world that feels consistent are not always the same. Trying to keep a logical frame work for the world D&D is set in is difficult enough.

Before you spend a lot of time and effort working out a world where monsters are not, well, monsters. I'd talk to those who would be playing in it. See if they are cool with it. See if they would even care. Often as a DM you will get an idea that seems great in your head but, when put out on the gaming tale, does not get the reaction you are looking for.

[thoroughlyS]

One thing I guess I should've made clear was that my previous post was essentially from most likely to be in a community to least likely.

A book said dryads make great gardeners in towns, so I guess it's not too farfetched to see one in a large town or city. Hobgoblins may try to be superior to humans, but since when are humans not the same to each other?
I'm curious, which book mentioned that dryad? As for the hobgoblins, yeah, I'd find it quite likely for hobgoblins to have cities, or have taken over towns. I just find it unlikely that a party would just want to go to a hobgoblin controlled settlement, because they're kind of evil and domineering. As in, their culture is designed to make them evil and domineering. That being said, the odd hobgoblin villager is leagues more common than, say—a fire elemental.

As for elementals, I don't see what's wrong with earth elementals mingling with mountainside towns, or water elementals in coastal villages. Specially if they shape themselves to look like humans (slime girl, anyone?).
Firstly, you run into the same problem with elementals as you do with outsiders: What do elementals want? Why would they decide to hang out with people. It's be like a human deciding to hang out in a grove of trees for life. They don't exactly have a reason to. And secondly, the majority of elementals don't have the ability to take on a humanoid shape (and slime girls are clearly ooze type).

And outsiders... live in the world long enough and it should rub off on them eventually.
Why? The souls they're made of already lived in a society, and chose to be chaotic evil. Why would living in a second society AFTER having been fused with actual, physical, chaos and evil change that?

PS: I wouldn't mind living with a yuan-ti, or a vampire, or a succubus, or an elemental. I can't say I'm evil, myself (whenever games give me moral options, I just can NOT pick the evil paths), but I just love those races.
If typical examples of those creatures could have their way they would: enslave and transform you; enslave, drink, and transform you; drink and kill you; and kill you (although that last one would likely be an accident). So you could live with them if you wanted, just not for long.

[Crake]

If typical examples of those creatures could have their way they would: enslave and transform you; enslave, drink, and transform you; drink and kill you; and kill you (although that last one would likely be an accident). So you could live with them if you wanted, just not for long.

Pop culture has romanticised the idea of "That one evil creature who's not actually evil, but the rest of his/their kind are" to the point where people almost seem to EXPECT it. Always turns out badly when the succubus actually charms you, takes you away, drains your soul, steals your items, levels up because you were 7 levels above her CR, and escapes into the wilds.

That happened 2 sessions ago in my game....

[KillingAScarab]

I see, it gives details on how humanoid races like orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc, interact in a city. I'm kind of going deeper, and hoping to get some kind of table of % chance that exotic races like dryads, maybe elementals, specially... succubi... might appear in a given town.Does your setttlement have a wizard in it? You can justify quite a bit if "a wizard did it." However, this seems like an adventure hook more often than a reason for an exotic settled population.

The first chapter of Neverwinter Nights features the main character tracking down strange creatures sent from Waterdeep by Kelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun to create a cure for a plague affecting the city of Neverwinter called the Wailing Death. The Waterdhavian creatures escaped and when you explore the district of Blacklake, it turns out a wizard had found and taken the dryad of the group for his own purposes. The dryad, while she was the only Waterdhavian creature which went to Neverwinter voluntarily, would have wasted away with prolonged absence from her tree. While the wizard had an interest in the dryad, it wasn't enough to ensure a dryad could live in the city. More specialized wizards or perhaps clerics or druids might be prerequisites to including a dryad population in a settlement. A city which is large enough to include at least one park might also be a prerequisite, once you get over a certain size.

Also in that chapter, the Moonstone Mask is featured, but no mention is made of the song dragon who frequents it in a human form.

You may also want to check out Eberron materials (or Eberron questions and answers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?489584-Eberron-Q-amp-A-Thread-By-Popular-Demand)) for information on Droaam. It's a monster nation ruled by three hags. Eberron Campaign Setting has it as 20% gnoll, 19% orcs, 18% goblins, 5% shifters, 38% other races (including half-orcs, harpies, hill giants, humans, medusas, minotaurs, ogres and trolls).