Worshiping Giants and Dragons

[Nishant]

So, I'm still fine tuning my own homebrew campaign and have gotten to giants and dragons, which given their relationships, I want to tackle at the same time. Now, I understand that ancient dragons tend to garner some admittedly god-like worship, or at the very least take the role of a king. Giants, on the other hand, can take the role of a king or overlord due to their size and power, but they generally don't reach the same level of veneration, as they don't live as long as their mortal enemies, and, from a crunch standpoint, aren't nearly as powerful. Now, this can be changed somewhat, thanks to new options in the Volo's Guide to Monsters, but they either A) don't do enough, or B) have some rougher implications; for example, I could very well see a Storm Giant Quintessent take a lord or even godly role, but it's regional effects would make the land uninhabitable for their subjects. So, that sprung up a different idea. What giants would benefit from a mutual partnership from 'small folk?'

My immediate thought came to fire giants and dwarves, as smithing and craft is something they both focus on. Hill Giants are strong, but stupid, and if the tides are turned, they could easily be subjugated by small folk. Frost giants are mighty, and could act as lords over small folk in more remote areas, But given their tendencies to live in their own groups, that would likely be reserved for exiles, or perhaps Everlasting Ones. Hill giants are also likely to be solitary, but I could see them working with some small folk, though there is still the issue of how to get them to interact otherwise. Cloud giant's are tricksters and aristocratic, so I can actually see them taking part in thieves' guilds, oligarchies relying on wealth as a platform, etc. That leaves storm giants at the top once again; now, they're reclusive as well, but by adding more traits or properties, I can see them achieving god-like worship. They are the strongest of their kind, and could simply be revered as such, and their omens could be delivered as direct messages from gods.

What do you think? should I look further into this? or should I try to keep giants as they are?

[Sigreid]

Honestly, I think you're over thinking it. Some societies could easily venerate giants as the avatars of greater gods that ascend when they die. It could even be sold as they have to die to carry the prayers of the people into the heavens.

[Sigreid]

Honestly, I think you're over thinking it. Some societies could easily venerate giants as the avatars of greater gods that ascend when they die. It could even be sold as they have to die to carry the prayers of the people into the heavens.

Edit: Or, you know the story could be that the god on earth periodically dies for the sins of their people.

[Spellbreaker26]

I actually really like this idea. Many polytheistic societies had loads of smaller gods that were patron deities of particular regions or areas (just check out the sheer number of river gods!) so perhaps the smaller giants would fulfill the role of local deities worshiped at small shrines; perhaps with the Nature domain, for example. Larger giants might protect larger cities, a fire giant, for example, and have domains like War. If you want them to be worshiped though, I would have players have as little contact with them as possible. Perhaps Hill Giants would stalk the forests, distantly glimpsed by the party but never coming into view, while larger giants would remain seated at a throne like the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, never leaving, and the party would only be allowed to meet them if they prove themselves to the populace. You could even make some giants actual demigods in the vein of empyreans.

[Finback]

Hill Giants are strong, but stupid, and if the tides are turned, they could easily be subjugated by small folk.

Perhaps the dynamic there is more a case of mutualism - maybe one day, the hill giants were observed chasing off some sort of threat to the town - a dire bear, or orc raiders. The humans were thankful, but being unsure of how to reciprocate, started leaving gifts - food parcels*, useable tools, armour. When a hill giant raided the town, the villagers would stop leaving out gifts. The smarter hill giants had a basic Pavlovian response - not hurt littles, no trouble. Hurt littles, trouble. Keep bad things away from littles, PROFIT. And from there, a basic mutual benefit was agreed on, without even realising it.

And maybe over time, the giants disappeared, or dwindled in number. Rarely seen, but legends still abound. If you see one, you're seen as having had a near-religious experienc - or seen as a lunatic**.

* let's face it, a roast turkey once in a while would be incredible if you've mostly been eating random animals you caught and just tossed into a firepit.
** especially if all you have are these blurry pictograms.

[Quoxis]

Perhaps the dynamic there is more a case of mutualism - maybe one day, the hill giants were observed chasing off some sort of threat to the town - a dire bear, or orc raiders. The humans were thankful, but being unsure of how to reciprocate, started leaving gifts - food parcels*, useable tools, armour. When a hill giant raided the town, the villagers would stop leaving out gifts. The smarter hill giants had a basic Pavlovian response - not hurt littles, no trouble. Hurt littles, trouble. Keep bad things away from littles, PROFIT. And from there, a basic mutual benefit was agreed on, without even realising it.

You mean... Skyrim? :^D

[Quoxis]

Another possibility is seeing the giants as the earthborn version of a deity - like a totem.
Townsfolk worships a god (no idea if one that fits already exists or if you have to homebrew it) that created everything, but the giants are the apex of their genesis, made to resemble them in every way, therefore the god's chosen race, and to get the god's attention you worship their children.

Or tl;dr: archaic giant Jesus.

[Quoxis]

Or you simply create an over-giant, a storm giant that towers even over the other members of his race, being bigger, having been born with incredible magic power (that magic storm mentioned in scag that gave humanoids the Storm sorcerer origin for example, because why stop at the little races?) that also increased their lifespan to hundreds of years and counting, having an intelligence high enough to know their potential and the alignment to either tyranically demand sacrifices (else it's raining thunderbolts) or benevolently guarding the little humanoids from afar up on their mountain, like Zeus on mt. olympus, showing himself little enough to be mysterious and doubted to exist by outsiders, but showing their powers often enough to be a fact for the people in their reach.
Make a godkiller campaign out of this!

[hymer]

Or you simply create an over-giant, a storm giant that towers even over the other members of his race, being bigger, having been born with incredible magic power (that magic storm mentioned in scag that gave humanoids the Storm sorcerer origin for example, because why stop at the little races?) that also increased their lifespan to hundreds of years and counting, having an intelligence high enough to know their potential and the alignment to either tyranically demand sacrifices (else it's raining thunderbolts) or benevolently guarding the little humanoids from afar up on their mountain, like Zeus on mt. olympus, showing himself little enough to be mysterious and doubted to exist by outsiders, but showing their powers often enough to be a fact for the people in their reach.
Make a godkiller campaign out of this!

In VGtM you'll find some juiced-up giants, one of which has legendary actions - The Storm Giant Quintessent. It's CR 16, making it as strong as or stronger than most adult dragons; IIRC only reds and golds are above CR 16 when adult.

Edit: Yeah, that wasn't very useful. Sorry!

[Blue Lantern]

[...] I could very well see a Storm Giant Quintessent take a lord or even godly role, but it's regional effects would make the land uninhabitable for their subjects. So, that sprung up a different idea. What giants would benefit from a mutual partnership from 'small folk?'

I haven't read Volo's guide yet, so I don't know the specifics, but there is the simple solution of toning down the regional effects of that monster if it is mostly what you want.

[Nishant]

First off I just want to say thank you for all your ideas so far! I'm starting to piece together what I might want to do, and the your ideas help quite a bit.


Larger giants might protect larger cities, a fire giant, for example, and have domains like War. If you want them to be worshiped though, I would have players have as little contact with them as possible. Perhaps Hill Giants would stalk the forests, distantly glimpsed by the party but never coming into view, while larger giants would remain seated at a throne like the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, never leaving, and the party would only be allowed to meet them if they prove themselves to the populace. You could even make some giants actual demigods in the vein of empyreans.

I had honestly completely forgotten about empyreans, to be honest. That could actually help quite a bit, given they already have a divine base. I could try and use them as a reference, if I don't include them outright. I may also extend the giant's ages.


Or you simply create an over-giant, a storm giant that towers even over the other members of his race, being bigger, having been born with incredible magic power (that magic storm mentioned in scag that gave humanoids the Storm sorcerer origin for example, because why stop at the little races?) that also increased their lifespan to hundreds of years and counting, having an intelligence high enough to know their potential and the alignment to either tyranically demand sacrifices (else it's raining thunderbolts) or benevolently guarding the little humanoids from afar up on their mountain, like Zeus on mt. olympus, showing himself little enough to be mysterious and doubted to exist by outsiders, but showing their powers often enough to be a fact for the people in their reach.
Make a godkiller campaign out of this!

That does make for a few interesting ideas; use the Quintessent as a base to build more powerful 'divine' giants for people to be ruled under.