Skirmish

[Gruftzwerg]

We have a scout in our campaign (lvl6) and I play a warlock with the "Flee the Scene" invocation (Dimension Door at will).

My question is, can I (as warlock) use Flee the Scene with the Scout (other team-member) and proc his Skirmish?

I ask because I intend to play my warlock a bit more in a supportive role. We have a group of 6 players and 2 are already optimizing for raw damage (Scout & Barb). And since our DM is new in DMing, I think it's better when I play a background support character and don't overdo it.
I thought it would be fun to support the Scouts Skirmish ability or to give the Barb more opportunities to charge.

edit: edited to prevent misinterpretation

[Boci]

Isn't flee the scene a standard action? How are you attacking after that? Belt of Battle? Or is it a swift/free action?

As for will it trigger, probably? Its down to how move is interpreted, which gets a bit awwkard because it is a mundane, everyday word (yet isn't defined in D&D rules), whilst teleporting isn't. You'll have to ask your DM to know for sure I think.

[PrismCat21]

I was going to say that I thought you could only use it for yourself, but apparently I misremembered it. :elan:

Regardless, once you use Dimension Door you can't take any actions until the start of your next turn. I imagine that should apply to creatures you bring with you, but I can't find anything at the moment which says it does.

It seems they're free to act while you're momentarily stuck. It's a solid plan if you can afford to take the potential hit. Good luck.

[Troacctid]

The sticking point is that skirmish doesn't just care if you're 10 feet away from where you started, it cares whether you moved 10 feet. Is there a difference between moving and being moved? Does dimensional travel even count as movement? The text offers no guidance (except to spell out that you can't skirmish while mounted), and the language is ambiguous enough that you could reasonably interpret it either way.

[Gruftzwerg]

Isn't flee the scene a standard action? How are you attacking after that? Belt of Battle? Or is it a swift/free action?



I said, I (the warlock) use Flee the Scene with the Scout (team member). ;)

I have a very high Initiative bonus and am very likely to go first. I thought/hoped I could use FtS together with the Scout and proc his Skirmish, so he doesn't need to move himself.

If that doesn't work I guess I need to stick to the barb and give him more opportunities to charge.


The sticking point is that skirmish doesn't care if you're 10 feet away from where you started, it cares whether you moved 10 feet. Is there a difference between moving and being moved? Does dimensional travel even count as movement? The text offers no guidance (except to spell out that you can't skirmish while mounted), and the language is ambiguous enough that you could reasonably interpret it either way.

Good question. I never played a Scout (skirmish char) myself, but as far as it seems, people advise in some guides teleportation items for skirmish. But dunno if it is supported by the rules or just peoples wish thinking/homebrew.

[Troacctid]

It's one of two competing interpretations that both fit the text. So it's not wrong, it's just vulnerable to table variation.

Personally, I think the intent is for you to move under your own power, but I would allow the combo anyway because I think it's clever.

[darkdragoon]

Sun School would work but it's probably a bit much you need Flurry of Blows and enough BAB to take it.

Blink shirt and totem bind does work but only with its granted ability; you would free up an invocation by not needing Flee the scene anymore but you might have issues with the lack of range.

[Necroticplague]

No, this wouldn't work. Scout requires you to move 10 feet from where you were at the start of your turn. If you teleport him, that shifts where he starts his turn, do it doesn't help on that front. In order for this to even have a sliver of possibility, you'd need to somehow teleport him during his turn. But let's say you use readied actions, celerity, or something to make this a possibility. This still wouldn't work, because the scout isn't moving, a requirement for skirmish. He's being moved. It's the same reason mounted skirmish doesn't work (when mounted, the mount moves, and you're just along for the ride. You aren't moving, your mount is.).

[Troacctid]

Actually, mounted skirmish doesn't work because the Complete Adventurer errata includes a line that specifically says skirmish doesn't work while mounted.

[PrismCat21]

Also, unless it's been errata'd, Skirmish says nothing about needing to move 'during your' turn. It says, "She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any ROUND in which she moves at least 10 feet.

The only thing specifying on your turn is the skirmish damage itself. The extra damage only applys to attacks made during the scouts turn. So no AoO's before or after your turn, but potentially during.


Edit: Dark dragon. Blink shirt wouldn't work because he can't take anyone with him if he uses it. He's not the Scout.
Also, since Blink Shirt acts like Dimension Door, once you use it you can't take any other actions until your next turn. So even if he was a Scout/Totemist, it would only be useful for getting away.

[Necroticplague]

Also, unless it's been errata'd, Skirmish says nothing about needing to move 'during your' turn. It says, "She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any ROUND in which she moves at least 10 feet.

The only thing specifying on your turn is the skirmish damage itself. The extra damage only applys to attacks made during the scouts turn. So no AoO's before or after your turn, but potentially during.

There has been errata:

The second sentence of the skirmish class feature should read as follows (new text indicated in red): She deals an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet. The skirmish ability cannot be used while mounted.
Red as formatted in the errata, bold for emphasis.

But even without that, it doesn't change that being moved is not the same as moving.

[daremetoidareyo]

There has been errata:

Red as formatted in the errata, bold for emphasis.

But even without that, it doesn't change that being moved is not the same as moving.

That's not a distinction that English language necessarily makes: I can "move" by efforts under my control, and I can "move" due to factors external to me. In either case, I moved. What entity is responsible for the action of moving only matters in the case of a mount which is outright banned. Every other interpretation is more or less valid. If you teleported, your relative position is different, therefor, you moved. If you fell 10 feet from the sky, you moved.

Now, there is a textual implication that the movement for skirmish should be under the power of the scout himself, but that isn't obligatorily so.

[PrismCat21]

There has been errata:

Okay, cool. I learned something. :elan:

Now consider this. Both mounted movement, and off-turn movement has been clarified by WotC. So why wouldn't they also clarify a scout only moving under his own power as the only way to activate Skirmish? If they did that, they wouldn't have needed to say anything about mounts at all.
Instead, they specifically called out mounted movement as not working, leaving all other forms untouched. Right? I'm really asking. :)

If so, then as long as the Scout was at least 10ft away from where she was at the start of the turn, Skirmish would be triggered. Right? According to the updated rules of Skirmish.

[PaucaTerrorem]

That's not a distinction that English language necessarily makes: I can "move" by efforts under my control, and I can "move" due to factors external to me. In either case, I moved. What entity is responsible for the action of moving only matters in the case of a mount which is outright banned. Every other interpretation is more or less valid. If you teleported, your relative position is different, therefor, you moved. If you fell 10 feet from the sky, you moved.

Now, there is a textual implication that the movement for skirmish should be under the power of the scout himself, but that isn't obligatorily so.

But the move happened before the scouts turn. So when their turn comes around they are in the same spot as when their turn started.
Unless you can inturrup their turn to move them it doesn't work.

[Gruftzwerg]

But the move happened before the scouts turn. So when their turn comes around they are in the same spot as when their turn started.
Unless you can inturrup their turn to move them it doesn't work.

Since my warlock has a higher initiative bonus, he is more likely to have the higher initiative roll than the scout. The warlock could ready an action and use his action when the scout would "start" his action.

[Boci]

I said, I (the warlock) use Flee the Scene with the Scout (team member). ;)

Ah sorry, I missed that. Same answer though, I think it depends on the DM for skirmish, but the barb will certainly appreciate it.

[animewatcha]

I need to find the comic that this originates from, but i can't help but think that warlock syncing turns with scout and flee the scene can be used as some kinda of 'fighter-do-ken' or in this case 'scout-a-do-ken'.