Few Questions about Elf Monk

[Lost_Nomad]

so I normally play a Dwarven Fighter but I had the chance to play an Elf Monk. I think I did alright but I have a few things I want to clarify.

1. as part of the Martial arts, if I attack with a monk weapon or an unarmed weapon I get an extra attack (or two if I expend a Ki point and use flurry of blows) my question is do I get those extra attacks even if my initial attack misses?

2. the above mentioned extra attacks, do they have to be directed at the same target? for example if I have to people within attacking range and I kill one with the first attack, can I use the unarmed strike on the second opponent?

3. finally, the trance ability that Elves get, does that basically mean that every short rest is the same as having a long rest?

I hope these make sense.

[RSP]

so I normally play a Dwarven Fighter but I had the chance to play an Elf Monk. I think I did alright but I have a few things I want to clarify.

1. Yes

2. the extra attack(s) can be against another target within 5'.

3. No. First, the elf trance is 4 hours, whereas a short rest is one hour. Second, an elf still requires 8 hours for a long rest. A long rest includes sleep, or trance, but it's not the same thing. An elf could forego a long rest and just trance for 4 hours, and not get exhaustion levels, but to get the benefits of a long rest, you must rest, but not necessarily sleep, for 8 hours.

[RSP]

Just to clarify question 2:

If using Martial Arts for the single bonus action attack, you can make it against any target you move within 5'. So you could attack action and kill a kobold, then move 20' and bonus action attack a second kobold.

However, if using Flurry of Blows (and a Ki point), the two attacks need to happen immediately, but don't need to target the same creature. So you could attack action a kobold, then attack two different other kobolds if those kobolds were all already within 5' (no moving between attacks with Flurry of Blows).

[Lost_Nomad]

so I normally play a Dwarven Fighter but I had the chance to play an Elf Monk. I think I did alright but I have a few things I want to clarify.

1. Yes

2. the extra attack(s) can be against another target within 5'.

3. No. First, the elf trance is 4 hours, whereas a short rest is one hour. Second, an elf still requires 8 hours for a long rest. A long rest includes sleep, or trance, but it's not the same thing. An elf could forego a long rest and just trance for 4 hours, and not get exhaustion levels, but to get the benefits of a long rest, you must rest, but not necessarily sleep, for 8 hours.

these are really helpful thanks but I don't see the point of a trance then? It doesn't seem like there are any benefits.

[RSP]

The point is mostly fluff, however, PCs need six hours of sleep each night or they will gain exhaustion levels. Trance cuts this time to four hours needed.

Usually sleeping or trancing occur with a long rest but they don't have to.

Monks for instance, don't get anything other than HP from a long rest. Everything they recover (Ki) they gain on a short rest. So if you're a Monk that is already at full HP, you don't really need the 8 hours of long rest each night; the 6 hours of sleep is enough.

If you're an elf Monk, you can cut this down to 4 hours. This could be time spent on the road traveling, crafting, or just pulling guard shift so the non-elves can get their 6 hours of Zzz time.

[Naanomi]

Trance means that during part of your long rest you are still 'alertish' and ready for action if attacked in the night (though it would still interrupt the benefits of the rest)

[RickAllison]

Since monks likely have high Wisdom, one who is an elf with Perception gets to have a high sentry score going for half of the long rest. In a four-person party, that means you only need one other high Perception score (for a solo two-hour sentry shift) while the other two can have lower scores because they will get two rolls.

[Sigreid]

Trance means that during part of your long rest you are still 'alertish' and ready for action if attacked in the night (though it would still interrupt the benefits of the rest)

RAW, during your long rest your allowed to battle for up to an hour (I think it's an hour) and still get benefits. Odd, but I guess they wanted to make it harder for the DM to mess it up for you.

[RickAllison]

RAW, during your long rest your allowed to battle for up to an hour (I think it's an hour) and still get benefits. Odd, but I guess they wanted to make it harder for the DM to mess it up for you.

From a meta perspective, the rule allows the DM much more latitude TO mess things up for the players! In terms of the game being fun, it is relatively unlikely that a DM would have a spot seemingly ideal for resting and after a draining set of encounters, but then plan to ruin long rests (unless it is supposed to be creating a despair-ridden story), so generally a DM would not be free to throw an encounter at the party. This allows for long rest-based casters to use remaining spell slots for more utilitarian things because the day is done. By contrast, this rule means a DM has freedom to interrupt those long rests without inducing groans, and so long-rest-casters must be more careful about expending resources before they get spells back because the DM has a built-in mechanic to attack during long rests.

[Rysto]

RAW, during your long rest your allowed to battle for up to an hour (I think it's an hour) and still get benefits. Odd, but I guess they wanted to make it harder for the DM to mess it up for you.

I think that you've misinterpreted the rule. I read it as any casting of spells, fighting, or 1 hour of walking interrupts a long rest.

[Christian]

Just to clarify question 2:

If using Martial Arts for the single bonus action attack, you can make it against any target you move within 5'. So you could attack action and kill a kobold, then move 20' and bonus action attack a second kobold.

However, if using Flurry of Blows (and a Ki point), the two attacks need to happen immediately, but don't need to target the same creature. So you could attack action a kobold, then attack two different other kobolds if those kobolds were all already within 5' (no moving between attacks with Flurry of Blows).

And just to clarify the clarification (because this threw me for a very long time, even after I read the explanations in Sage advice); you qualify to take the Martial Arts bonus action when you take the Attack action--which is the activity of declaring your action for the round. So you can take your attacks in any order, with your movement split between however you'd like. That is, you could declare you're using the Attack action, move 10 feet, use a bonus action to make an unarmed strike, move 20 feet, make your regular attack with your monk weapon, then move 10 more feet. (Note that while you could possibly end up not taking that attack, because eg. there were no remaining targets, you could not at that point change your action to something else; you've already used your action for the turn.)

Apparently, the distinction is the language in Martial Arts "When you use the Attack action ..." versus in Flurry of Blows "Immediately after you take the Attack action ..."

Yeah.

[Christian]

I think that you've misinterpreted the rule. I read it as any casting of spells, fighting, or 1 hour of walking interrupts a long rest.

"If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity--at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity--the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it."

Pro Sigreid: If they meant the hour to apply only to the 'walking' activity, the could have easily made that clear by reordering the list. "... fighting, casting spells, or at least 1 hour of walking or similar adventuring activity ..."

Pro Rysto: What the heck kind of combat lasts an hour? That's 600 combat rounds. Has any 5E D&D party spend 600 rounds in combat during one night, ever? During one 24-hour period? Maybe over the course of a week ... You'd be looking at carpal tunnel issues on your d20 hand, at the very least.

Since there are no other instances of editing issues that bad in the PHB, I guess Sigreid's reading must be right. No, wait, I think I found ... oh, there's another one ... and ... OK, never mind, gotta go with Rysto on this one.

[Tanarii]

Trance is mostly useful because it allows you to have 4 hours of light activity during a long rest. Per the rules for Long Rests, all other characters are only allowed up to 2 hours of light activity such as reading, talking, eating or standing watch. The rest of the time they have to sleep.


The point is mostly fluff, however, PCs need six hours of sleep each night or they will gain exhaustion levels.Lack of sleep doesn't give exhaustion levels unless your DM rules they do.


RAW, during your long rest your allowed to battle for up to an hour (I think it's an hour) and still get benefits. Odd, but I guess they wanted to make it harder for the DM to mess it up for you.That kind of activity interrupts your long rest. In other words, it doesn't make you start over if it is less than an hour, but neither does that time count towards your long rest.

[Specter]

No, no and no.

[Sigreid]

Pro Rysto: What the heck kind of combat lasts an hour? That's 600 combat rounds. Has any 5E D&D party spend 600 rounds in combat during one night, ever? During one 24-hour period? Maybe over the course of a week ... You'd be looking at carpal tunnel issues on your d20 hand, at the very least.


I think they just went with an hour as the time they say to avoid "Well, it's the 7th hour of your rest and you've been attacked by an ogre. Unfortunately, the rule is you can fight for 10 rounds without botching your rest and you fought for 11. No benefit for this rest for you."




That kind of activity interrupts your long rest. In other words, it doesn't make you start over if it is less than an hour, but neither does that time count towards your long rest.

I didn't see a RAW reason to believe this, but it does make sense and I wouldn't complain if that's the way the DM played it.

[RSP]

Look at that, RAW you don't need sleep. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Tanarii]

I didn't see a RAW reason to believe this, but it does make sense and I wouldn't complain if that's the way the DM played it.
I'm basing it purely on the word interrupted. I can see how that might be considered a stretch interpretation.