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Ziegander
2016-11-26, 09:52 PM
Just as the title says! I can't decide on what class or multiclass combination of characters I'd like to use to achieve the concept. I was reminded of the Elder Scrolls series today, and my favorite type of character to build in those games was a dungeon-delving, speechcrafting, swordsman with a splash of crafting skills. Thoughts on a build?

MarkVIIIMarc
2016-11-26, 10:03 PM
Oh, this is soo a Bard, a Bard of a different sort who fancies himself as more of a story teller of the value of his wares.

Not saying your Bard never did sing but now he is a poet who builds value in negotiations.

Bards get that Mending Cantrip right from the get go and that could have been the start of your Merchant's business.

Nifft
2016-11-26, 10:08 PM
Just as the title says! I can't decide on what class or multiclass combination of characters I'd like to use to achieve the concept. I was reminded of the Elder Scrolls series today, and my favorite type of character to build in those games was a dungeon-delving, speechcrafting, swordsman with a splash of crafting skills. Thoughts on a build?

Rogue Mastermind or Rogue Swashbuckler, seems like one of those would be a good fit.

In terms of being a Traveling Merchant, though -- that's more of a campaign style than a build issue. You'd want to discuss that with the other players (emphatically including the DM).

Naanomi
2016-11-26, 10:53 PM
Obviously the Merchant background... what setting is this in? I played a Cleric of Waukeen (would be a Knowledge Cleric in 5th) that was in part this

Other classes that might work: ranger (travel to sell wares in the hinterlands); wizard (teleportation magic makes the job so much easier, and the extraplanar markets are great!), warlock (I really shouldn't have tried to short change that archfey...)

Specter
2016-11-26, 11:11 PM
Three words for you: Bag of Holding. Carry all your merch without worrying about strenght.

Laserlight
2016-11-26, 11:35 PM
Anyone with Insight and Persuasion skills. I invariably introduced my battlemaster/swashbuckler as a merchant. He sold ironwork, especially swords--but if you needed hinges or brackets, he'd sell them to you. Made a deal with the local blacksmith to make things, and then went around the area drumming up business and taking orders. And uncovering cults, fighting bandits, and such.

JellyPooga
2016-11-27, 04:26 AM
Paladin.

Paladins make great heroic travellers. Whatever they do to make money on the way is up to you and being a merchant is an excellent honest trade to follow in your quest to seek out evil (just don't mistake dishonest traders for "evil"!).

You don't have to do the "knight in shining armour" bit. Go for light armour, a jovial attitude...be a likable Paladin with a silver tongue. Dip a little Rogue to accentuate your social skills and "light" style.

Spacehamster
2016-11-27, 04:41 AM
Mtn dwarf fighter athletics and perception, choose which crafting tool from the race that you want.
Background: guild artisian
Then go battlemaster for an additional crafting thingy.

Starting stats 15/8/15/10/8/14

There you have a toon that is pretty good at haggling, masters three crafts and can hold his own in battle no problem. :)

Spellbreaker26
2016-11-27, 04:57 AM
I played a travelling merchant character and had a lot of fun. (He was a Tiefling Lore Bard, part Hellboy, part Del-Boy, part Colonel Sanders). Made a fair bit of money; but it will be a little dependent on the knowledge you and your GM have of medieval economics.

I suggest bard for the class, either lore or valour depending on your race. The most important requirement, however, is that you have a high charisma to haggle with, so sorcs and warlocks will do fine. Paladins may run into the problem of theme a little bit, but you never know. Rogues could also fit the theme.

Background should be the Artisan variant that gets you a mule and cart. Load it up with some trade goods to start off with, and sell them in the first city you come to and buy some more. It's very easy to become the party bank if you're a class that doesn't have very high equipment requirements (another reason to maybe not go paladin).

Herobizkit
2016-11-27, 05:16 AM
Make sure you roll Tabaxi.

"Tabaxi has wares if you have coin!"

But honestly, you could roll this heroic merchant/craftsman with any class using the Guild Merchant/Artisan background with decent Wis and Cha. Maybe a sellsword Paladin or Cleric would work well, especially of Gond. He's all about the crafting and looking for new ideas.

Kobard
2016-11-27, 07:18 AM
Lore Bard. (Possibly Valor, particularly if you want to emphasize the swordsman.) Social skills coupled with enchanting/illusion magic. Expertise and a high Charisma makes you a persuasive negotiator. Minor Illusion and Prestidigitation provide nice tricks to the trade. Inspiration for making a sale, particularly using Cutting Words to destroy an opposed ability check in a negotiation. You are a Jack-of-all-Trades, and that includes ability checks made with tools. Grab the Guild Merchant (Guild Artisan variant) background. Remember. You don't just trade in goods, you also trade in secrets, tips, and rumors.

RickAllison
2016-11-27, 09:26 AM
Agreed with Bard if you want someone who is the crafty, haggling type of merchant, though a Sorcerer with Subtle Spell (Detect Thoughts and/or Suggestion would be good) is excellent for dealing with untrustworthy people, while a wizard (transmuter or UA artificer would be good) is excellent for a merchant due to the variety of utilitarian spells available, who is able to sell services as well as goods.

Naanomi
2016-11-27, 12:26 PM
The most basic setup would be indeed likely a Lore Bard, almost the archetypal 'face' build... with point but something like...

Lightfoot Halfling Guild Merchant
8/16/14/10/12/16
Get expertise in Persuasion, Deception, Insight (last one free; maybe Perception or Investigation to analyze the quality of goods, or the appropriate Intelligence skill that covers your wares of choice, often but not always History or Nature)

ASIs to max Charisma then pretty free past that

Biggstick
2016-11-27, 01:51 PM
Everyone seems to say Bard or Rogue. Let's try something different.

How about the Barbarian Guild Artisan.

Run it as a standard Barbarian with Strength being the thing you max out first, going GWM or SnB, doesn't matter. What really matters is that you have a penchant for breaking things and then offering to fix them. Maybe you sneak around at night, smash a door in, retreat until morning, and then show up at the site of the broken door sometime the next day. Offer your services to fix said door, for a price of course, and there ya go!

Bonus points for said strategy if you use a weapon to break the things that you don't normally keep on your person. If you're a Greataxe wielding Barbarian most of the time, break things with a Maul, and vice versa.

Naanomi
2016-11-27, 02:00 PM
Some of this depends on the type of merchant you want to represent... a craftsman selling his wares from town to town? An explorer hunting out antiquities and treasure to sell at their shop in the capital? A caravaneer traveling between remote locations to make a profit in the transport?

Ziegander
2016-11-27, 02:55 PM
Thanks for all the ideas, everyone!

The flavor I'm going for is that of an explorer/caravaneer, seeker of remote locations, antiquities, and treasures to sell, not at any established shop of his own, but to other shops all over the world. Still very much an adventurer, but one as much in tune with trade and commerce as they are dungeon delving.

Bard is a great idea, one I've been mulling over myself. I also find myself drawn to the Battlemaster Fighter suggestion, that extra tool proficiency is nice if my DM would not allow me to sacrifice useless, ancillary proficiencies for more tools, and it would give me an avenue for Extra Attack and martial proficiencies should I choose Lore Bard (which is much better for the concept than Valor).

Having magic also allows me to craft magic items, which is something I'd like the character to dabble in as they gain levels.

The Ranger suggestion is interesting, but offers no Charisma synergy... anyone have a build suggestion for a wandering Ranger merchant?

Naanomi
2016-11-27, 03:05 PM
A ranger merchant would be less worried about haggling (though their Insight could be good and thus keep the deals honest) and more about traveling quickly and safely to places to trade... maybe even illicitly, a ranger with the criminal background makes a great smuggler. Beastmaster has potential, either a tricksy maneuverable pet to grab loot (a blood hawk?) or something more hefty to act as a rough-terrain pack animal

RickAllison
2016-11-27, 03:25 PM
A ranger merchant would be less worried about haggling (though their Insight could be good and thus keep the deals honest) and more about traveling quickly and safely to places to trade... maybe even illicitly, a ranger with the criminal background makes a great smuggler. Beastmaster has potential, either a tricksy maneuverable pet to grab loot (a blood hawk?) or something more hefty to act as a rough-terrain pack animal

Indeed. You can have a silver-tongued haggler (Charisma), a trader who keeps deals honest (Wisdom), or a studious antiquarian who knows the history of the goods he sells (Intelligence). All are valid styles of the adventurous merchant (and there are many more), but the majority do not require Charisma as a primary attribute.

Ziegander
2016-11-27, 03:27 PM
Indeed. You can have a silver-tongued haggler (Charisma), a trader who keeps deals honest (Wisdom), or a studious antiquarian who knows the history of the goods he sells (Intelligence). All are valid styles of the adventurous merchant (and there are many more), but the majority do not require Charisma as a primary attribute.

And... if I want to be a little of all of the above...? :redface:

Naanomi
2016-11-27, 03:28 PM
And... if I want to be a little of all of the above...? :redface:
Although I don't want to pidgeonhole this (there are lots of fantastic options), Bard (especially but not exclusively Lore Bard) is the classic 'a little of all of the above' class for a variety of reasons. A half-elf can even get some 'a little of all of the above' stats... with point buy a 10/14/14/12/12/16 is completely viable and swimming in all the skills you could ever want

Ziegander
2016-11-27, 03:34 PM
Maybe I'll look into Ranger (Beastmaster) 3/Lore Bard 17, then... Just to get a warhorse (or just riding horse) companion and some of the other nice Ranger bennies. Lore Bard gets its own "Extra Attack" in Haste.

Another thing to consider is that this would be played in a solo campaign.

Kobard
2016-11-27, 03:49 PM
Thanks for all the ideas, everyone!

The flavor I'm going for is that of an explorer/caravaneer, seeker of remote locations, antiquities, and treasures to sell, not at any established shop of his own, but to other shops all over the world. Still very much an adventurer, but one as much in tune with trade and commerce as they are dungeon delving.

Bard is a great idea, one I've been mulling over myself. I also find myself drawn to the Battlemaster Fighter suggestion, that extra tool proficiency is nice if my DM would not allow me to sacrifice useless, ancillary proficiencies for more tools, and it would give me an avenue for Extra Attack and martial proficiencies should I choose Lore Bard (which is much better for the concept than Valor).

Having magic also allows me to craft magic items, which is something I'd like the character to dabble in as they gain levels.You could always go Paladin/Lore Bard, a combination of the above, which would provide more synergy than a Fighter/Bard. Going Paladin/Bard is commonly compared to the impossible Lore Bard / Valor Bard multiclass. It also nets you the Extra Attack, Martial and Armor Proficiencies, and a bunch of other paladin benefits (e.g. Immunity to disease on a caravan? Yes, please.).

RickAllison
2016-11-27, 03:58 PM
And... if I want to be a little of all of the above...? :redface:

Bard X/Knowledge Cleric 1 or Rogue 1... or both? The Expertise from the dips and the Bard make up for a relative lack of intelligence and reflect someone who has studied those subjects rather than being naturally talented (so we get the antiquarian), the sky-high Charisma plays well for the silver tongued aspect, and more Expertise can go into Insight or to further boost the silver tongue through Persuasion. It plays as a well-rounded merchant, and mobility can be addressed through Find Steed to carry your burdens.

Alternatively, Thief or Arcane Trickster X/Wizard Y. Play the full on Indiana Jones by using low-level utility spells with the maneuverability and skills of the rogue. Antiquarian is supplied by high Intelligence, Expertise bolsters Insight and Persuasion.

There are multiple ways to realize this concept. With more time, I could probably figure out a way to do it that doesn't involve casters. I wouldn't want to, but I could.

Naanomi
2016-11-27, 03:59 PM
Solo? Hrm... bard loses a lot of oomph without other folks to buff up (though isn't completely unviable).
For solo play lets look at...

Stout OR Whisper Halfling (custom background: caravaneer) Ranger (revised) beast-master 20
8/16/16/10/14/8 - (8/16/14/10/16/8 as Whisper Halfling)
Survival, Stealth, Perception, Insight, Animal Handling
Land Vehicles
Common, Halfling, Elf, Dwarf, Undercommon
Racial Enemy: Humanoids, Dragons
Combat Style: Defensive
ASI: Mounted Combat, +2 Dexterity, +2 Dexterity, Defensive Duelist, Sharpshooter
Spells: Beastbond, Ensnaring Strike, Goodberry; Pass Without Trace, Lesser Restoration; Conjure Barrage, Wind Wall, Conjure Animals; Conjure Woodland Beings; Conure Volley, Commune with Nature

Revised Companion: the world's most vicious Mule
Companion ASIs: +2 Strength, +2 Strength, +2 Strength, +1 Constitution/+1 Charisma, +2 Constitution
Skills: Athletics, Stealth

Tactics: Sneak around with your trusty mule, when combat breaks out support that nasty ass (sic) with nets, whip attacks, and thrown weapons.
Equipment Needed:
Leather armor, shield, thrown weapons, net, a whip, fullplate mule barding

Ziegander
2016-11-27, 04:48 PM
It plays as a well-rounded merchant, and mobility can be addressed through Find Steed to carry your burdens.

I forgot all about Find Steed. Warhorse + Haste + Bardic Inspiration ... pretty good.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-11-27, 04:51 PM
You could always go Paladin/Lore Bard, a combination of the above, which would provide more synergy than a Fighter/Bard. Going Paladin/Bard is commonly compared to the impossible Lore Bard / Valor Bard multiclass. It also nets you the Extra Attack, Martial and Armor Proficiencies, and a bunch of other paladin benefits (e.g. Immunity to disease on a caravan? Yes, please.).
If you want less multiclassing, you can still pick up Find Steed using your Magical Secrets ability at 6th. Taking Green Flame Blade or Booming Blade (both cantrips from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) with the other will give you a nice bit of melee presence as well.

Ziegander
2016-11-27, 05:19 PM
Yeah, honestly, the more I look at it, I think straight Lore Bard is the way to go. Pick a sword, cast Haste, cast Find Steed, have all of the skills I want, and most of the spells. Between Find Steed and Cutting Words it doesn't look to me like I would lose any of the normal Bardic oomph (Song of Rest can apply to myself, anyway).

I think I'm digging this. Hopefully I can convince the DM to let me trade some of those skill proficiencies (and maybe ALL of the instrument proficiencies for just 1) for tool proficiencies.

Guild Merchant + Lore Bard seems like the way to go. Maybe I'll even pick up Blade Mastery and Moderately Armored.

Could look like this with a little lenience from the DM
Variant Human (27pt buy)
Lore Bard 4
Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 14
Moderately Armored, Blade Mastery
HP (4d8+8): 31
AC 18 (Breastplate + Shield +2 Dex)
Longsword (+5 to hit): 1d8+2 damage, Longbow (+4 to hit): 1d8+2 damage
9 skills: Insight, Persuasion, Athletics, Acrobatics, Stealth, Deception, Alchemist's Tools, Herbalism Kit, Thieves' Tools
3 Instruments: Ideally, convince DM to let me switch for 1 tool proficiency - Smith's Tools

Not too shabby at all.

Beleriphon
2016-11-27, 05:24 PM
Make sure you roll Tabaxi.

"Tabaxi has wares if you have coin!"

Especially if you name the character M'aiq.

Biggstick
2016-11-27, 05:29 PM
Yeah, honestly, the more I look at it, I think straight Lore Bard is the way to go. Pick a sword, cast Haste, cast Find Steed, have all of the skills I want, and most of the spells. Between Find Steed and Cutting Words it doesn't look to me like I would lose any of the normal Bardic oomph (Song of Rest can apply to myself, anyway).

I think I'm digging this. Hopefully I can convince the DM to let me trade some of those skill proficiencies (and maybe ALL of the instrument proficiencies for just 1) for tool proficiencies.

Guild Merchant + Lore Bard seems like the way to go. Maybe I'll even pick up Blade Mastery and Moderately Armored.

Could look like this with a little lenience from the DM
Variant Human (27pt buy)
Lore Bard 4
Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 14
Moderately Armored, Blade Mastery
HP (4d8+8): 31
AC 18 (Breastplate + Shield +2 Dex)
Longsword (+5 to hit): 1d8+2 damage, Longbow (+4 to hit): 1d8+2 damage
9 skills: Insight, Persuasion, Athletics, Acrobatics, Stealth, Deception, Alchemist's Tools, Herbalism Kit, Thieves' Tools
3 Instruments: Ideally, convince DM to let me switch for 1 tool proficiency - Smith's Tools

Not too shabby at all.

You're still going to need an instrument to cast spells, so keep one of those instruments.

And the variant Guild Merchant only suggests that you might be proficient with Navigator's Tools rather then Artisan's tools. You don't need to take Navigator's Tools and can simply retain your Artisan Tools proficiency from the background.

If you're worried about speed of the mount, why not go Phantom Steed from the Wizard spell list instead? It has 100 movespeed and takes a ritual to cast. If you're looking for leniency from the DM, you could try and see if he allows you to cast the ritual while riding the steed (or riding the cart that it's pulling at 100 ms) 10 minutes before it disappears. This also opens up your second Magical Secret for something else.

Reason I say this at all, is Haste only lasts for 1 minute, and really doesn't do as much as you think it will for a Find Steed. (also, that pesky loss of a turn once it falls off can be brutal if it happens at the wrong time.)

Grod_The_Giant
2016-11-27, 06:16 PM
Yeah, honestly, the more I look at it, I think straight Lore Bard is the way to go. Pick a sword, cast Haste, cast Find Steed, have all of the skills I want, and most of the spells. Between Find Steed and Cutting Words it doesn't look to me like I would lose any of the normal Bardic oomph (Song of Rest can apply to myself, anyway).

I think I'm digging this. Hopefully I can convince the DM to let me trade some of those skill proficiencies (and maybe ALL of the instrument proficiencies for just 1) for tool proficiencies.

Guild Merchant + Lore Bard seems like the way to go. Maybe I'll even pick up Blade Mastery and Moderately Armored.

Could look like this with a little lenience from the DM
Variant Human (27pt buy)
Lore Bard 4
Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 14
Moderately Armored, Blade Mastery
HP (4d8+8): 31
AC 18 (Breastplate + Shield +2 Dex)
Longsword (+5 to hit): 1d8+2 damage, Longbow (+4 to hit): 1d8+2 damage
9 skills: Insight, Persuasion, Athletics, Acrobatics, Stealth, Deception, Alchemist's Tools, Herbalism Kit, Thieves' Tools
3 Instruments: Ideally, convince DM to let me switch for 1 tool proficiency - Smith's Tools

Not too shabby at all.
You're spreading your stats a bit thin; personally, I think I'd reduce Str and bump up Dex and Cha-- something more like Str 8/Dex 16/Con 14/Int 10/Wis 10/Cha 16 is possible after the bumps for race and Moderately Armored. You can use a rapier instead of a longsword and deal the same base damage, and your carrying capacity (120lb) is still more than enough for medium armor. The other thing I'd consider is Magic Initiate (Sorcerer or Warlock) in place of Blade Mastery. As I mentioned, taking one of the two melee cantrips in the Sword Coast Guide can go a long way towards keeping your melee skills competitive; you can use the other slots to pick up, say, Firebolt or Eldrich Blast for a reliable ranged attack, or add another utility cantrip... etc. If you take Booming Blade specifically, you can pick it off the wizard list and use the first level slot for the ever-amazing Find Familiar.

(EDIT: If you're okay with using a reach weapon (perhaps a whip...? :smallwink:) Spell Sniper is an alternative to Magic Initiate for picking up Booming Blade. Hit someone from 10ft away then retreat for easy activation of the bonus damage)

Joe the Rat
2016-11-27, 06:37 PM
You're still going to need an instrument to cast spells, so keep one of those instruments.

And the variant Guild Merchant only suggests that you might be proficient with Navigator's Tools rather then Artisan's tools. You don't need to take Navigator's Tools and can simply retain your Artisan Tools proficiency from the background.

You can skip the bagpipes and use a component pouch.

Agreed on Guild Merchant. That pretty much locks up the "merchant" side, leaving the rest of the build to get the Dashing Swordsman Dungeon Delver.

Spellbreaker26
2016-11-27, 07:33 PM
You can skip the bagpipes and use a component pouch.

Agreed on Guild Merchant. That pretty much locks up the "merchant" side, leaving the rest of the build to get the Dashing Swordsman Dungeon Delver.

Why skip the bagpipes? Invent a catchy jingle and use a performance check to attract customers to sell your wares to.

Ziegander
2016-11-27, 10:02 PM
You're spreading your stats a bit thin; personally, I think I'd reduce Str and bump up Dex and Cha-- something more like Str 8/Dex 16/Con 14/Int 10/Wis 10/Cha 16 is possible after the bumps for race and Moderately Armored. You can use a rapier instead of a longsword and deal the same base damage, and your carrying capacity (120lb) is still more than enough for medium armor. The other thing I'd consider is Magic Initiate (Sorcerer or Warlock) in place of Blade Mastery. As I mentioned, taking one of the two melee cantrips in the Sword Coast Guide can go a long way towards keeping your melee skills competitive; you can use the other slots to pick up, say, Firebolt or Eldrich Blast for a reliable ranged attack, or add another utility cantrip... etc. If you take Booming Blade specifically, you can pick it off the wizard list and use the first level slot for the ever-amazing Find Familiar.

(EDIT: If you're okay with using a reach weapon (perhaps a whip...? :smallwink:) Spell Sniper is an alternative to Magic Initiate for picking up Booming Blade. Hit someone from 10ft away then retreat for easy activation of the bonus damage)

I just prefer the aesthetics of a longsword over a rapier (and slashing damage over piercing), but you make a strong argument for Magic Initiate. I think I'll actually go Fighter 1/Bard X for the proficiencies at 1st level (though, I do lose some of those skills I want, hmm...) and pick up Magic Initiate for Find Familiar (great idea), Firebolt, and Booming Blade (that way I don't have to waste Magical Secrets on them). I'd still like to take Blade Mastery, just because I'm fond of the feat and between that and Dueling style, my skill with the Longsword, even with Str 14, is better than a rapier with Dex 16 would have been. The advantage on opportunity attacks also has synergy with Booming Blade.

That raises a question: If you have Warcaster and you use your action to cast Booming Blade, hit, and your enemy moves away from you, can you use your opportunity attack to cast Booming Blade on them again and deal extra thunder damage to them twice for one movement?

With Find Familiar, Find Steed*, Second Wind, passing-decent melee... this is starting to seem like an alright solo adventuring merchant! (*Well, in a couple levels)

Kobard
2016-11-28, 05:19 AM
Again, I think that Paladin synergizes better with the Bard than the Fighter. For how much you will apparently be going Bard vs. Warrior X Class, I think you get more bang for your buck by going Paladin. With Fighter, you are primarily getting armor/weapon proficiencies (same as Paladin), Second Wind, Fighting Style (Paladin level 2), and Constitution save proficiencies. Second Wind is useful, but the bonus is dependent on Fighter level. The same is true for Lay on Hands, but it's less spiky and you can distribute the HP as needed. If you dip two levels of Paladin, you are gaining those same proficiencies and fighting styles, spellcasting that also works off Charisma, divine sense, and smite, in which you can burn paladin spellslots for bonus damage. Furthermore, you'll eventually be getting your Extra Attack, Channel Divinity, and Aura of Protection (+Cha to saves!). If you are running solo, then you are not gonna necessarily have someone to save your bacon when it comes to saving throws. If you go Oath of Devotion, then you won't be charmed. If you go Oath of the Ancients, then you're gaining some useful resistance against spell damage. You may want to start Paladin over Bard, since you gain more going from Pal to Brd than Brd to Pal, and then dump your Dex for some heavy armor (and possibly more Cha and Str), particularly if you prefer longsword over rapier.

Ziegander
2016-11-28, 07:39 AM
If I were dipping for more than one level, I agree, Paladin has much better synergy, and Smite would be an excellent way of ensuring my damage stayed competitive. But games I play in never seem to get any higher than 8th level at most, and dipping 1 level of Fighter is just better in that environment, both from a roleplay and mechanical standpoint, than spending an ASI on armor.

Grod_The_Giant
2016-11-28, 08:42 AM
I just prefer the aesthetics of a longsword over a rapier (and slashing damage over piercing), but you make a strong argument for Magic Initiate. I think I'll actually go Fighter 1/Bard X for the proficiencies at 1st level (though, I do lose some of those skills I want, hmm...) and pick up Magic Initiate for Find Familiar (great idea), Firebolt, and Booming Blade (that way I don't have to waste Magical Secrets on them). I'd still like to take Blade Mastery, just because I'm fond of the feat and between that and Dueling style, my skill with the Longsword, even with Str 14, is better than a rapier with Dex 16 would have been. The advantage on opportunity attacks also has synergy with Booming Blade.

That raises a question: If you have Warcaster and you use your action to cast Booming Blade, hit, and your enemy moves away from you, can you use your opportunity attack to cast Booming Blade on them again and deal extra thunder damage to them twice for one movement?

With Find Familiar, Find Steed*, Second Wind, passing-decent melee... this is starting to seem like an alright solo adventuring merchant! (*Well, in a couple levels)
Fair enough. The Fighter dip is a mighty solid choice. You actually don't lose any skills, as Bard gives you one when you multiclass into it and you'll still get all the bonus Lore Bard stuff. As for Warcaster... yep, pretty much-- Booming Blade is bloody amazing as an opportunity attack.

Kobard
2016-11-28, 09:29 AM
If I were dipping for more than one level, I agree, Paladin has much better synergy, and Smite would be an excellent way of ensuring my damage stayed competitive. But games I play in never seem to get any higher than 8th level at most, and dipping 1 level of Fighter is just better in that environment, both from a roleplay and mechanical standpoint, than spending an ASI on armor.Why dip at all then? Why not just go Valor Bard? You'll be down three skills, but there will not be that much disparity of skills at the levels you will be playing, especially since you have Jack-of-all-Trades: a base difference of +2 at level 8 between proficiency (+3) and non-proficiency (+1.5, rounded down to +1). You could either go Variant Human or Half-Elf for a few more skills, if you wanted them. You would get your extra attack and martial weapons, shield, and medium armor proficiencies without having to MC dip. You're slowing your ASI and spell progression for something that you could get relatively quicker by going full Valor.

If you are committed to MC dipping, you could also grab War Cleric 1 to net martial weapon/heavy armor proficiencies, a limited extra attack, a few domain spells (shield of faith, divine favor), three cleric cantrips (including guidance!), and it does not slow down your bard's full caster progression. You could also go Tempest Cleric 1 for martial/heavy armor proficiencies, a smidgen more bonus damage, and it would complement the Booming Blade (aesthetically), should you decide to pick that up through Magic Initiate.

But you should probably take Warcaster as your 1st level feat, since no one will be tanking for you. I know you like the aesthetic of the longsword, but it's not a finesse weapon, and it results in your character being a little too MAD. You should perhaps consider switching to a finesse weapon for your Dex or the Defensive Duelist feat, which may also fit your character's persona. Or just dump Dex and raise Str. A longsword would probably not be the sword of choice for a wandering merchant anyway, even if they are the treasure-hunting adventuring sort. The scimitar doesn't do as much damage as a longsword, but it's at least finesse and hitting for damage is more important than missing for nil. It's also suitable as a nice cavalry weapon. But here I would recommend a major decision regarding your character's emphasis. You should either go Heavy Armor with Str, longsword, and low Dex or go Light/Medium Armor with Dex, finesse weapon, and low Str. You don't want to spread yourself too thin. You may be a Jack-of-all-Trades, but you still want to be effective, especially solo.

Ziegander
2016-11-28, 01:36 PM
Personally, I think Lore College is far better suited to solo adventuring than Valor Bard is. Between magical secrets and cutting words, I should always have a way to make the most out of my class features without needing allies to work for me. And I'll probably end up with some hirelings every now and then. :smallamused:

War Cleric is a fine idea though... I will have to look into that. Bless and Guidance are two spells I'd certainly like to have...

And you're absolutely right about STR and heavy armor. Those stats were held over from when I was going with the Moderately Armored feat. I forgot I would have access to heavy armor. Smh.

Final build with Fighter at 1st level looks like:

Variant Human Fighter 1
Guild Merchant
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 14
HP (1d10+2): 12
AC 18 (Chainmail + Shield)
Longsword (+5 to hit): 1d8+5 damage
Skills: Athletics (+5), Insight (+2), Perception (+2), Persuasion (+4), Survival (+2)
Tools: Smith's Tools (+2)
Feats: Magic Initiate (Find Familiar 1/day, Booming Blade, Firebolt)

I'm afraid my DM is going to think Find Familiar is overpowered. He already doesn't like that I start with a mule and a cart. :smallsigh: I'm tempted to take Animal Handling instead of Survival because I have a feeling he'll make me make checks to convince the mule to do anything whether I feed it or not. Adding the Help action to all of my attacks is probably just going to result in a dead familiar as often as the DM can manage. :smallannoyed: