Anklet of Translocation and pinning

[Story]

I've seen Anklet of Translocation mentioned here as a get out of grapple free card. However, my understanding is that any enemy with iterative attacks or multiple natural attacks can initiate a grapple and try to pin you in the same round. If successful, they'll prevent you from speaking, and activating a command item (such as the Anklet) requires speaking. So this seems useful only when facing particularly weak grapplers. Is there something I'm missing?

[Necroticplague]

I've seen Anklet of Translocation mentioned here as a get out of grapple free card. However, my understanding is that any enemy with iterative attacks or multiple natural attacks can initiate a grapple and try to pin you in the same round. If successful, they'll prevent you from speaking, and activating a command item (such as the Anklet) requires speaking. So this seems useful only when facing particularly weak grapplers. Is there something I'm missing?

Multiple natural attacks doesn't give you more grapple checks on a full-round action.

Also, not being able to speak only helps against a command word. These are simply command, not command word (thus, why they don't need a standard action to use).

[Crake]

Multiple natural attacks doesn't give you more grapple checks on a full-round action.

Also, not being able to speak only helps against a command word. These are simply command, not command word (thus, why they don't need a standard action to use).

Sorry, but the rules disagree:


[Action Type] (command): Command activation means that
a character speaks a command word and the item activates. No
other special knowledge is needed.
A command word is the key to the item’s lock, as it were. It can
be a real word such as “Vibrant,” “Square,” or “Horse,” but when
this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating
the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation.
More often, the command word is a seemingly nonsensical
word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in
common use.
Activating a command word magic item does not provoke
attacks of opportunity. You cannot activate a command word
item in the area of a silence spell or if you are unable to speak.

Not all enemies can manage to pin you though, and those that do may not always think about stopping you from speaking unless you're an obvious spellcaster. Anklets are also good for getting you out of more than just grapples, it helps against many kinds of restraints

[Fizban]

Most grappling monsters worth fearing do so via improved grab on a natural weapon. Making iterative grapple checks is its own full round action and not a full attack, with an exception that if you began the grapple via an iterative full attack you may continue into the full round grapple. If you're a monster with an improved grab natural weapon, you aren't starting your grapple via an iterative full attack, so you can't make multiple grapple checks-in fact, as soon as you enter grapple you lose the rest of your full attack except for any pounce rakes. You can always have monsters ignore their natural abilities to make iterative unarmed or grapple checks in order to fast pin, but for most this will make no sense unless they've been specifically taught/ordered to do so.

A more effective solution is to just ban the obviously broken anklets, but then you have to fight the legions who want them to not be broken.

[Crake]

Most grappling monsters worth fearing do so via improved grab on a natural weapon. Making iterative grapple checks is its own full round action and not a full attack, with an exception that if you began the grapple via an iterative full attack you may continue into the full round grapple. If you're a monster with an improved grab natural weapon, you aren't starting your grapple via an iterative full attack, so you can't make multiple grapple checks-in fact, as soon as you enter grapple you lose the rest of your full attack except for any pounce rakes. You can always have monsters ignore their natural abilities to make iterative unarmed or grapple checks in order to fast pin, but for most this will make no sense unless they've been specifically taught/ordered to do so.

A more effective solution is to just ban the obviously broken anklets, but then you have to fight the legions who want them to not be broken.

whats so broken about them? They're a decent 2/day get out of jail free card that can save the party from TPKs against particularly unlucky grapple rolls. They're cheap because later down the line much better teleportation comes online that you can use to escape anyway, so it's mostly aimed at low level characters who don't want to die to a tendriculous or something

[Zanos]

The Anklets are only really good as a consequence of grappling being basically death even for meaty PCs, since the grapple game is stacked from square 1 against player characters. They're only busted if you like to run creatures that just pick a PC and kill them.

[sleepyphoenixx]

They're not perfect, but the major benefit is that they're cheap enough to afford early. If you're worried you can later upgrade to the Shadow Cloak (DotU, 5,500gp) for immediate action teleport 3/day.

The Anklets are only really good as a consequence of grappling being basically death even for meaty PCs, since the grapple game is stacked from square 1 against player characters. They're only busted if you like to run creatures that just pick a PC and kill them.

You can also use them to get out of an opponents threatened area without provoking an AoO or wasting your action for the round. Or to avoid difficult terrain, BFC or other hazards.
You can use it to pop into total cover after moving out and casting a spell. You can use it to get out of full attack range after making your own full attack. You can use it to get enough distance to charge.
Or to get to the other side of a wall or door as long as there's an opening to look through - like a window too small to climb through.
Remember that LoE only needs a 1 square foot opening. Most medium characters need a significantly bigger opening to climb through.

If you can't find the value in an incredibly cheap swift action teleport you're not trying. Even if it's only 10ft.

[Story]

So it sounds like most real world grappling creatures won't be able to pin you on the first round. I guess that makes sense.

Followup question: Can Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker escape a grapple? It's not clear to me by RAW, since it's movement, not teleportation, and "you can't move normally while grappling", but on the other hand, the movement is the effect of activating a magic item, rather than a normal move action.

[Fizban]

Yup, all those guys up there ^. Standard metrics apply: if an item is so good that literally every character should have it, it's probably too good. Try to duplicate the effect with class features and see how far you get: if you can buy it before you can do it natively, it's probably too good. If you can buy it for a pittance before you can do it natively, it's obviously overpowered. Seriously, "all" it does is get out of jail free twice per day, that's "all it does (and the whole list of other things sleepyphoenix gave, if not more). If someone hadn't already printed it so ridiculously cheap, you'd still recommend it every time at 5,000gp, even up to 7,000 or 10,000 and people would be saying to buy it at first opportunity, because there's no other way in the game to just get out of jail free as a swift action without a massive investment of resources. So how is it *not* broken at 1,400? It's underpriced by any metric and forces the DM to account for its dramatic effect on basically every encounter.

Anklets of Translocation are broken overpowered. The reason everybody wants them to not be, is because with them in the game the players can circumvent almost any battlefield control element, which means the DM doesn't have to pay attention to encounter balance, which also feeds back to the players getting to use whatever other overpowered stuff they want. If everyone's on board with that then they're fine, the same as it's fine if everybody is on board with free LA or gestalt or super high stat rolling methods or any other mechanic that applies to the whole party-and it forces everyone in the party (if not every creature in the world) to use the same amount of free LA or gestalt optimization, or buy the anklets at first opportunity, in order to participate in the new world. I did bring it up after all, but that's all I'm going to say in direct response to that.

As for the Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker, it doesn't get you out of a grapple, since you can't just move when you're in a grapple. It might let you move the grapple as a swift action instead of a standard action, but only if the DM decides they like that idea and makes an exception, otherwise moving the grapple remains a standard action and activating the chronocharm doesn't get you anything. It's also another command word item, so there's that to consider.

So, if you're on the DM side, I suggest the same thing I've done: a blanket ban on basically any teleportation item that costs less than 10,000gp. If you're on the player side, I would suggest you not bring the anklets into it unless the DM approves and then the rest of the group approves, since if you've been playing without them so far they represent a huge change. If all you need is grappling options, there are other items you can use to deter grapplers by covering yourself in damage (such as a Burnoose of 1,001 Thorns or a Fiery Tunic) or pumping damage into them after they grab you (such as a Ring of Thunderclaps), or just Freedom of Movement (such as from the Vest of Free Movement [from Fleet Warrior's Array item set]). Grappling monsters are supposed to be a big scary threat you need to avoid, where if you get grabbed your party needs to save you fast. Nullifying that just makes the DMs job harder and stagnates the game.

[Crake]

Yup, all those guys up there ^. Standard metrics apply: if an item is so good that literally every character should have it, it's probably too good. Try to duplicate the effect with class features and see how far you get: if you can buy it before you can do it natively, it's probably too good. If you can buy it for a pittance before you can do it natively, it's obviously overpowered. Seriously, "all" it does is get out of jail free twice per day, that's "all it does (and the whole list of other things sleepyphoenix gave, if not more). If someone hadn't already printed it so ridiculously cheap, you'd still recommend it every time at 5,000gp, even up to 7,000 or 10,000 and people would be saying to buy it at first opportunity, because there's no other way in the game to just get out of jail free as a swift action without a massive investment of resources. So how is it *not* broken at 1,400? It's underpriced by any metric and forces the DM to account for its dramatic effect on basically every encounter.

You mean like a level 1 conjurer wizard with immediate magic who can teleport the same distance, more times per day, and as an immediate action instead of a swift one?

[sleepyphoenixx]

So it sounds like most real world grappling creatures won't be able to pin you on the first round. I guess that makes sense.

Followup question: Can Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker escape a grapple? It's not clear to me by RAW, since it's movement, not teleportation, and "you can't move normally while grappling", but on the other hand, the movement is the effect of activating a magic item, rather than a normal move action.
No. You still move normally, and if you're grappled you can't do that. The Chronocharm lets you move more/as a swift action, but it's still movement.


Yup, all those guys up there ^. Standard metrics apply: if an item is so good that literally every character should have it, it's probably too good. Try to duplicate the effect with class features and see how far you get: if you can buy it before you can do it natively, it's probably too good. If you can buy it for a pittance before you can do it natively, it's obviously overpowered. Seriously, "all" it does is get out of jail free twice per day, that's "all it does (and the whole list of other things sleepyphoenix gave, if not more). If someone hadn't already printed it so ridiculously cheap, you'd still recommend it every time at 5,000gp, even up to 7,000 or 10,000 and people would be saying to buy it at first opportunity, because there's no other way in the game to just get out of jail free as a swift action without a massive investment of resources. So how is it *not* broken at 1,400? It's underpriced by any metric and forces the DM to account for its dramatic effect on basically every encounter.
Not everything that's good is automatically overpowered. The notion is ridiculous. An item being worth buying does not make it broken, or else there would be no need to buy items.
The game actually expects you to get some capabilities through items. They're part of your characters strength. That's what WBL is for.

In this specific case? Tactical teleportation is good because it's useful. It gives you options. The anklets are cheaper than other options because they're very limited, both in range and activation.
There's plenty of 1st level teleportation options, with everything from spells, psionic powers and ACFs like Abrupt Jaunt. Some of them are even natively swift actions.This is an intended part of the game.

Seriously, have you read the List of Necessary Magic Items (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items)?
Everything on that list is something every character should have. That doesn't make those things overpowered. It makes them things the game expects you to have at certain points.

[John Longarrow]

Hmm... Guess melee weapons are over powered and under priced since just about everyone grabs one as soon as they can... Same with cloths.

[Telok]

Honestly if you're cool with dropping enchantment and either necromancy or evocation then the Abrupt Jaunt ACF for +1 conjuration spell each level and immediate teleports is essentially an improved wizard class. So do you want a wizard or a +1 wizard of teleporting?