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View Full Version : Optimization Unusual Tiny Dagger build and E6



Rusvul
2016-11-27, 02:18 AM
Hello, Playground! I'm posting this for two reasons- one, I think it's an amusing (if slightly cheesy and not necessarily particularly powerful) combination of abilities, and two, I've been thrown something of a curveball (even if it's one I'm totally cool with) and I'm not sure how I ought to adapt.

I've put together a skillmonkey who can work in melee or at a short distance. Build is Factotum 3/PF Mouser Swashbuckler 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Assassin 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Unseen Seer 1+. (A little overboard on the multiclassing, I know, but my table doesn't use XP penalties, soo...)

The idea is that I get inside a larger opponent's square and, with the combination of Reduce Person, the Mouser's Underfoot Assault, the Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folks feats, and possibly a casting of Fell the Greatest Foe, I shred whoever is unlucky enough to share a space with me. Confound the Big Folk allows me to consistently use Iaijutsu Focus with a Quickrazor, that plus my mediocre Sneak Attack will add up to a lot of D6s. (When Confound the Big Folk won't work, I can always just use a few skill tricks or the Flick of the Wrist feat.) The Cleric level is mostly for utility, the idea being to trade the Knowledge and Travel domains for their respective Devotion feats. (Travel we keep, because rerolls are fantastic.) All in all, when I get Confound the Big Folk at 9th level, I become a terrifying (if extremely small) force of ankle-shredding fury. (At least, that's the idea.)

A few sessions in, and my DM informs me we might be playing E6. (Might as in he hasn't decided, and because it irks me he probably won't for quite a while.) Given that the only things I really need beyond level 6 are feats (namely, Confound the Big Folk,) it doesn't really hurt me much... in fact, it kinda helps keep me relevant. It does, however, trivialize the Assassin level- taking one level in a spellcasting class is *probably* not a good idea unless you're mostly just using it for devotion feats... So if anyone has thoughts on what would be a more helpful level 6 class, I'd be grateful to hear it. (Bonus points if it also works well in a standard-progression game- Assassin will require some convincing, I think, because for some reason someone sneaky with sneaky-spells is required to be evil...)

Crake
2016-11-27, 02:53 AM
Hello, Playground! I'm posting this for two reasons- one, I think it's an amusing (if slightly cheesy and not necessarily particularly powerful) combination of abilities, and two, I've been thrown something of a curveball (even if it's one I'm totally cool with) and I'm not sure how I ought to adapt.

I've put together a skillmonkey who can work in melee or at a short distance. Build is Factotum 3/PF Mouser Swashbuckler 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Assassin 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Unseen Seer 1+. (A little overboard on the multiclassing, I know, but my table doesn't use XP penalties, soo...)

The idea is that I get inside a larger opponent's square and, with the combination of Reduce Person, the Mouser's Underfoot Assault, the Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folks feats, and possibly a casting of Fell the Greatest Foe, I shred whoever is unlucky enough to share a space with me. Confound the Big Folk allows me to consistently use Iaijutsu Focus with a Quickrazor, that plus my mediocre Sneak Attack will add up to a lot of D6s. (When Confound the Big Folk won't work, I can always just use a few skill tricks or the Flick of the Wrist feat.) The Cleric level is mostly for utility, the idea being to trade the Knowledge and Travel domains for their respective Devotion feats. (Travel we keep, because rerolls are fantastic.) All in all, when I get Confound the Big Folk at 9th level, I become a terrifying (if extremely small) force of ankle-shredding fury. (At least, that's the idea.)

A few sessions in, and my DM informs me we might be playing E6. (Might as in he hasn't decided, and because it irks me he probably won't for quite a while.) Given that the only things I really need beyond level 6 are feats (namely, Confound the Big Folk,) it doesn't really hurt me much... in fact, it kinda helps keep me relevant. It does, however, trivialize the Assassin level- taking one level in a spellcasting class is *probably* not a good idea unless you're mostly just using it for devotion feats... So if anyone has thoughts on what would be a more helpful level 6 class, I'd be grateful to hear it. (Bonus points if it also works well in a standard-progression game- Assassin will require some convincing, I think, because for some reason someone sneaky with sneaky-spells is required to be evil...)

If you want a non-evil assassin give avenger a look over, it's basically the same class, just not evil.

Cerefel
2016-11-27, 12:32 PM
If ToB is allowed, an initiator dip at the end could be pretty helpful.

LordOfCain
2016-12-11, 07:43 PM
If ToB is allowed, an initiator dip at the end could be pretty helpful.
Its still helpful if its not allowed! Just a tad less kosher.

Venger
2016-12-12, 12:58 PM
Hello, Playground! I'm posting this for two reasons- one, I think it's an amusing (if slightly cheesy and not necessarily particularly powerful) combination of abilities, and two, I've been thrown something of a curveball (even if it's one I'm totally cool with) and I'm not sure how I ought to adapt.

I've put together a skillmonkey who can work in melee or at a short distance. Build is Factotum 3/PF Mouser Swashbuckler 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Assassin 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Unseen Seer 1+. (A little overboard on the multiclassing, I know, but my table doesn't use XP penalties, soo...)

The idea is that I get inside a larger opponent's square and, with the combination of Reduce Person, the Mouser's Underfoot Assault, the Underfoot Combat and Confound the Big Folks feats, and possibly a casting of Fell the Greatest Foe, I shred whoever is unlucky enough to share a space with me. Confound the Big Folk allows me to consistently use Iaijutsu Focus with a Quickrazor, that plus my mediocre Sneak Attack will add up to a lot of D6s. (When Confound the Big Folk won't work, I can always just use a few skill tricks or the Flick of the Wrist feat.) The Cleric level is mostly for utility, the idea being to trade the Knowledge and Travel domains for their respective Devotion feats. (Travel we keep, because rerolls are fantastic.) All in all, when I get Confound the Big Folk at 9th level, I become a terrifying (if extremely small) force of ankle-shredding fury. (At least, that's the idea.)

A few sessions in, and my DM informs me we might be playing E6. (Might as in he hasn't decided, and because it irks me he probably won't for quite a while.) Given that the only things I really need beyond level 6 are feats (namely, Confound the Big Folk,) it doesn't really hurt me much... in fact, it kinda helps keep me relevant. It does, however, trivialize the Assassin level- taking one level in a spellcasting class is *probably* not a good idea unless you're mostly just using it for devotion feats... So if anyone has thoughts on what would be a more helpful level 6 class, I'd be grateful to hear it. (Bonus points if it also works well in a standard-progression game- Assassin will require some convincing, I think, because for some reason someone sneaky with sneaky-spells is required to be evil...)
If your DM does make up his mind, ask how skillcaps will be handled. I know E6 has a lot of different ways it's run, so you might be allowed virtual skill ranks and can take confound the big folk later if it's your effective "ninth level" feat.

as far as saving space goes, if you roll halfling and take champions of valor's hin disciple sub level, you can actually grab underfoot combat as a bonus feat, letting you get confound the big folk as your 9 instead of your 12.

this trick is a favorite of mine, and depending on how room/e6 shakes out, you might look at psychic assassin if you can contrive some manifesting. its mind cripple ability lets you deal int damage with successful sneak attacks, which you should be doling out multiple times a turn, which will incapacitate brutes and severely hinder casters.

honestly straight psionic rogue is also probably a safe bet for e6, since your tricks won't be eclipsed as severely as in a normal game.