Stonecunning = Useless in 5e?

[Snig]

Whenever you make an Intelligence (History) check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.

This has no effect on me finding hidden doors or traps or anything does it? What possible reason would I have for wanting to know the "origin" of stonework?

[magic2345]

This depends a lot on the DM I think. You can know a lot from the origin of stonework.

For example, since you know that this sculpture is made by *insertracehere* of *insertplacenamehere*, you can deduct that this dungeon/palace/building has specific traps (or anything really), because the *insertracehere* loves making those specific traps.

Or maybe you know that the walls are decorated by a master craftsman who loves making secret doors. So the players will then often investigate a lot in rooms.

As the DM, you can kinda control/lead players using these things.

[MrFahrenheit]

Funny this thread just popped up. In my last session, the party ran into an almost-abandoned, far-away dwarf community stuck in the Copper Age. Their human NPC guide, who'd been there years before, saw no value in the weapons produced, given the material that was used to produce them.

Party's dwarf utilized stonecunning and found that the NPC was correct in the weapons regard. However...as exotic works of art...the hoard of copper artifacts they acquired was estimated at 10,000 gp. It was seriously the difference between that much gold and "NPC's right. Screw this stuff."

[Sigreid]

What the others said, it's worthless to invaluable depending on the style of DM and the campaign.

[JeenLeen]

Based on the quotation you gave for the ability (which I'll assume is the totality of the ability), I guess it wouldn't work. However, I and I reckon some DMs would count you as being able to use it to help detect traps if they are in stonework. But I admit this is mostly due to experience in D&D 3.5. I agree that, as written, it seems pretty useless except for cases where it is particularly made to be useful.

[Occasional Sage]

A well-designed dungeon reflects its builders. The original function of the structure should suggest what kinds of traps you'll find for instance:


a temple wants its main thoroughfares to be usable, wide and clear; side passages for clergy only will be hidden and/or secret, and perhaps trapped if they lead someplace valuable. The main halls will likely be filled with enemies who've moved in. Now, which kinds of encounters do you want?
a crypt will have a different design thought process. Main passages will likely be blocked entirely by walls built as the funeral procession left the crypt, and secret bypasses loaded with construct or undead guardians. Judicious Passwalls or even quick work with crowbars may save you a ton of hassle, if the lifeless guards don't have clever instructions.


And so on.

The Pathfinder Dungeoneer's Handbook (https://www.hpb.com/products/dungeoneer-s-handbook-9781601255105) is a cheap way to get loads of good ideas to lead your DM into making Stonecunning useful (or becoming a rockstar DM if that's your role).

[Hrugner]

With the one dwarf I played, I often asked "is this a stonecunning thing" regardless of the type of roll asked for by the DM. It wasn't always the case, but a couple times the DM decided that yes I could probably use knowledge about something rather than examining it manually. so yes, it's situational, and you can make an effort to make sure that situation is more common.

[Arkhios]

I agree Stonecunning is poorly worded as is, but it's not worthless. I'd let a dwarf use it for nearly anything stonework related.

[agnos]

I DM'd OotA and let it come up a bunch. You can find out a lot by telling if stone is worked or not, worked magically or manually, what race (and/or ethnicity) was likely to work it, what purpose the stone served, what type of weathering (if any) the stone has, what type of stone and how old it is, etc. Stonecutting is one of my favorite racial traits because it helps get players and DMs to think about the game and their characters. Stonecutting should be good for finding pitfall, deadfall traps, and pressure plates.

That said, it varies in strength based on DM and players. It's benefit will rarely be offered without the players trying to get it.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Stonecunning is one of those abilities that's exactly as valuable as the GM thinks it should be in his campaign.

GM #1: "Yes, this 10' corridor is made of stone. You're very certain of that."

GM #2: "Over hundreds of years, foot traffic has worn the floor smooth where people have walked down this corridor. Most of the trafficked paths lead to doors, some of which are still intact. One of them, however, ends at a blank wall."

[Arkhios]

In the same vein of being able to roll skill checks with a different ability than is default for them I would probably let a dwarf rogue have advantage on using perception to detect a trap that involves stonework and later have advantage again to disable the trap. But that's just me. Then again, I tend to utilize rule of cool and rule of fun quite often.

[BeefGood]

Thanks OP for bringing this up. I had what I thought was a great idea for using stonecunning. The PC dwarf could quiz the just-encountered NPC dwarf on the local stonework. If the NPC dwarf can answer the questions, then he's really a dwarf. If not, he might be a doppleganger.
Of course this assumes that the player would think to do this, but I was going to drop some hints as DM to lead him there.
But then the doppleganger got himself killed before he could take the place of the NPC dwarf. The PC dwarf may still give the quiz when he meets the NPC dwarf, but the outcome won't be as exciting.

[Shining Wrath]

Exploring a mine abandoned by dwarves 100 years ago, your dwarf notices recent work in the kobold style. Useful?

You come across a stone idol set on a dais. Your dwarf notices that the stone is not from this region, but is normally found in the Underdark. Useful?

[Plaguescarred]

I woudln't call it useless but it's a knowledge check for a very specific subject; the origin of stonework, which means it's situational and like anything situational, it can be good when the subject is dealt with frequently and not really when no subject is interacted with that often or when the pertinence of the information gathered is subpar or easily obtained in another fashion.

[Socratov]

Stonecunning is one of those abilities that's exactly as valuable as the GM thinks it should be in his campaign.

GM #1: "Yes, this 10' corridor is made of stone. You're very certain of that."

GM #2: "Over hundreds of years, foot traffic has worn the floor smooth where people have walked down this corridor. Most of the trafficked paths lead to doors, some of which are still intact. One of them, however, ends at a blank wall."


In the same vein of being able to roll skill checks with a different ability than is default for them I would probably let a dwarf rogue have advantage on using perception to detect a trap that involves stonework and later have advantage again to disable the trap. But that's just me. Then again, I tend to utilize rule of cool and rule of fun quite often.

Or for that matter, Illusion spells. (that is, until your illusionist wizard starts pumping out 'real' illusions)

[DiceDiceBaby]

I know a couple of Art Historians in real life who would love to have the Stonecunning skill. Can't tell the difference between Doric, Ionic or Corinthian? Stonecunning. Baroque or Rococo? Stonecunning. Early and High Renaissance? Stonecunning. Michelangelo or Donatello? Stonecunning.

Also, like the others mentioned, it can be used in caves and dungeons, as well as castles and palaces! "Stonework" could also involves things like architecture, carving, engineering, jewelry, masonry, and quality control, so don't forget niche applications in craft. Think of a Dwarf adventurer in the terms of Robert Langdon or Indiana Jones, and you'll see the applications.

[Sigreid]

In the end, this feature is clearly a ribbon. Included to add a particular flavor to the dwarf. As such, it's only going to be as useful as the DM wants to make it.