So what is "mind-bending", anyway?

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Inspired by comments in the Dr Strange discussion thread, I found myself wondering at the title question.

Consider Inception, a film I've often seen and heard referred to as "mind-****ery". In the other thread various playgrounders have stated that they don't consider it a particularly mind-twisty film and I'm inclined to agree. I found absolutely nothing mind-bending in Inception. Aside from two or three scenes, the reality warping was minimal, so I'd have a hard time using the occasional dream-like visuals to justify the epithet. The allegedly ambiguous ending didn't really strike me as such and there's nothing that twisty in the plot itself, other than your run-of-the-mill sudden yet inevitable betrayals and other typical heist complications. There isn't enough ambiguity and too few unknowns and unexpected-yet-perfectly-foreshadowed twists to qualify it as mind-bending.

But it did get me thinking, and wondering what different playgrounders consider their personal scale for mind-twistyness in film specifically and other media more generally. How do you define/recognise this quality? What, if any, is the bar to pass?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But it did get me thinking, and wondering what different playgrounders consider their personal scale for mind-twistyness in film specifically and other media more generally. How do you define/recognise this quality? What, if any, is the bar to pass?

I'd define it as stories whose set-up is done such that you believe A is happening, but has a twist that reveals B is happening instead, that forces you to review the whole thing and realise that, yes, B fits perfectly.

The problem is that discussing any of this involves massive spoilers for all the stories involved. The very fact that they are mentioned may spoil any first-time viewers.

Best examples I can think of off the top of my head are Fight Club and Harry Potter & the Goblet of Fire (the book. The film was way too much on the nose). The first is legendarily a mind-****, and the second's reveal of the main antagonist is beautifully done, and in successive re-reads holds up very nicely.

Grey Wolf

[Fri]

Here's an important point.

You can have an over the top premise with straightforward plot, or mundane premise with mindbending twist. Crazy premise or setting doesn't have to mean mindbending and vice versa. Also for me personally plot twist and mindbending plot isn't really the same, though one might be the other.

For example, you can have a story about people using mind altering drug that give them ability to travel in dreamland to solve crime. It can be straightforward, the drug give them super power to travel in various layer of human mind, and they find criminals with it. That's not mind bending.

On the other hand... anyone here ever read John Dies At The End by Cracked's Head Editor David Wong? Now that's mindbending. Seriously, I recommend it. It's about drug, who give you ability to... prescience? And two paranoid stoners have to stop a secret alien invasion? But it's like saying "world war 2 is about people who shoot other people." It got both mindbending plot, AND crazy plot twists everywhere.

If you've read House of Leaves, I consider that mindbending without plot twist. There's not really any plot twist worth to note there, but how the story and plot unfold... it's bend mind in ways I'm not used to.

A minor novel I randomly read, the 13th Hour, is what I'd consider mundane but with plot twist. It's just a random minor novel that I'm comfortable to spoil it for the sake of this discussion. It's set in normal, real modern day world. No crazy fantasy or sci-fi tech there. The main character suddenly wake up having none of his acquintance remembering her. It turned out the twist is, she's not what she thought she is. She's an FBI agent who's protecting a certain witness of a drug lord, and she got captured by the drug lord. She keep saying how she is the witness as they interrogated, and drugged her, and all the info about the witness she's protecting got mixed up with her own identity in her head as they torture and drug her. Plot twist, mundane story.

Compare to inception. The plot is actually pretty straightforward, through the premise is unusual. You got super power where you can move through layers of mind, and you have to put key idea there. There are rules about human mind, like the guardian agents, and how each layer in mind have slower time, but there's not really any twist in the story that I can remember. Except maybe the main character's backstory, and the reason why he's haunted, but I don't really think it's a plot twist, just hidden backstory.

[Starbuck_II]

The original story for Candle Cove.
I mean, if you watched the original.

The Scifi movie changes many things, but even there is a few twists and turns that surprises you.

[Dienekes]

You see I've always used the terms, probably incorrectly, mind bending to describe when the imagery forces your brain to adjust to what it's seeing on a physical level. A few scenes from Inception were definitely like that. But on a whole the movie was more grounded.

While the similar term mind blowing was used to describe a twist that literally destroyed the conceived notions of what was happening. Or, completely differently, just a cool effect.