Unearthed Arcana 11/27/16

[DracoKnight]

Is this week's Unearthed Arcana published yet? I can't seem to find it...

It's up now (http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Druid11272016_CAWS.pdf) :smallbiggrin:

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Tends to turn up in the evening, if I remember correctly.

[DragonSorcererX]

Is this week's Unearthed Arcana published yet? I can't seem to find it...

Wouldn't we have a Level 20 Mystic this month? This is the last UA of the month, so it must be Mystic.

[DracoKnight]

Wouldn't we have a Level 20 Mystic this month? This is the last UA of the month, so it must be Mystic.

I believe that they tweeted out that the Mystic has been put off just a bit longer. It looks like they're going through all the classes writing up 2-3 new archetypes for each.

[DragonSorcererX]

I believe that they tweeted out that the Mystic has been put off just a bit longer. It looks like they're going through all the classes writing up 2-3 new archetypes for each.

Next should be Druid (because the last ones were Barbarian, Bard and Cleric, and they seem to be following the PHB order now).

[DanyBallon]

Is this week's Unearthed Arcana published yet? I can't seem to find it...

Usually I see articles from WotC be posted around 1PM eastern time (10AM pacific time). As of now, there's still 5 min left :smallwink:

[DracoKnight]

Usually I see articles from WotC be posted around 1PM eastern time (10AM pacific time). As of now, there's still 5 min left :smallwink:

Schweetness! :smallbiggrin:

[DivisibleByZero]

We're coming off of an holiday weekend people. Be patient.

[GandalfTheWhite]

Be patient.

*Darth Vader Impression* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Proper application of one of the sh!ttiest lines in Star Wars... Second only to Anakin's hatred of sand, obviously.

[DracoKnight]

The link is up, I put it in the OP.

[Aett_Thorn]

Interesting options. You've got a healer Druid, a spirit shaman type of thing, and a kind of blasty-death hunter.

I was hoping for something a bit different for these, but I like the options we've got here.

[Jjj111]

As a druid fan, I'm not that impressed. Circle of dreams has no real dream interaction. Circle of twilight seems more like circle of necromancy. I guess circle of shepherds is my favorite by a little bit.

I was really hoping for a druid equivalent of the beast master or an urbanish druid or an archer-based druid.

[DracoKnight]

My problem with the Druid is that Moon is just so incredibly awesome, that to me, anything else feels like a step down.

[Regitnui]

Three Eberron Druids! I'm happy!

Circle of Dreams: the Greensingers who commune with the fey of Thelanis.

Circle of Shepherds: The Wardens of the Wood, The Siyal Marrain of the Valenar, and even the Mask Weavers of the Talents Halflings.

Circle of Twilight: the Children of Winter, who seek to cleanse the world through death...

Smell that? It's the smell of a new setting on the wind... When it lands, nobody knows...

[Foxhound438]

harvest scythe is waaaaaay too strong. add a pile of extra d10 to something with a decent AOE and you've got a pretty hard to beat damage machine.

shepherd's spirit bond seems like there's some easy combo potential in any given party, if you choose the right animal. Short rest recharge makes it pretty attractive.

balm of the summer court seems pretty good- a bunch of free casts of healing word at worst, with free speed boost to boot.

[Temperjoke]

This is the 2nd Feywild variant class that we've seen, and the 3rd Death/Spirit variant; I wonder if these are indications of the next reference books? They might be looking at a Feywild or Shadowfell campaign or reference.

Of the new druid variants, the Dreaming Circle one seems to be intended to be a full healer/support, judging from the abilities. I'm a little underwhelmed from the Shepard Circle though, it's like they're trying to create a summoner type of druid, but they don't do much to push it beyond what a druid can already do. The Circle of Twilight druid is very campaign-dependent for how effective it's going to be. I mean, it's abilities are way stronger if you're fighting undead things, but they're mediocre if you're not.

I do like the more formalized way to learn new beast shapes. It requires your players to actually commit to learning a new shape, instead of just casually seeing an animal then immediately changing into one of them.

[Ziegander]

I also think the formalized beast shapes is a great idea, and though the name is really off, I actually really like the Circle of Dreams a lot.

[jaappleton]

Wouldn't we have a Level 20 Mystic this month? This is the last UA of the month, so it must be Mystic.

I spoke with Crawford and Mearls about that via Twitter. Mearls initially said (I think back in early October, or late September) that we'd see the full Mystic in November. However, due to the new UA schedule of every Monday, it's been pushed back to...

Crawford: "When it's ready."
Mearls: "By the end of the year."

In my experience, Mearls is always much more forthcoming with information than Crawford is.

I think we'll see the Mystic alphabetically. So...

12 / 5 / 16 - Fighter
12 / 12 / 16 - Monk
12 / 19 / 16 - Mystic

[jaappleton]

This is the 2nd Feywild variant class that we've seen, and the 3rd Death/Spirit variant; I wonder if these are indications of the next reference books? They might be looking at a Feywild or Shadowfell campaign or reference.

I have a theory.

A lot of things are pointing to something Divine or Shadow oriented. Maybe both?

Look back at the Light, Dark, Underdark! UA article. Undying Light Warlocks only got 1 bonus Patron spell per level. Every other Warlock gets two. Paladins and Clerics saw no spells added with the Elemental Evil players companion. They saw new archetypes in SCAG, but no new spells added to their vanilla list.

I believe something Divine related is coming next. I think a lot of spells we're seeing as part of 'bonus' lists (Granted by a Domain, or Oath, or Patron, etc) are mostly placeholders for some new spells we're going to be seeing soon.

[Pex]

Nice that they made support type druids.

Twilight Druid's Harvest Scythe shouldn't be necrotic damage, though I understand thematically why. Mechanically the extra benefit for killing undead won't work so often because most undead are resistant or immune to necrotic damage. The d10s spent are wasted, and you're just hoping the spell's normal damage would be enough to kill the undead. I'd be fine if it was radiant damage and only worked on undead. It also relieves some of the burden on the cleric to deal with undead, and a party without a cleric has a means to deal with undead well enough anyway.

[jaappleton]

Three Eberron Druids! I'm happy!

Circle of Dreams: the Greensingers who commune with the fey of Thelanis.

Circle of Shepherds: The Wardens of the Wood, The Siyal Marrain of the Valenar, and even the Mask Weavers of the Talents Halflings.

Circle of Twilight: the Children of Winter, who seek to cleanse the world through death...

Smell that? It's the smell of a new setting on the wind... When it lands, nobody knows...

I do believe Eberron is coming. Whenever asked about it, Perkins answers along the lines of "We'd be stupid to ignore what fans want."

He said that about bringing Ravenloft to 5E before CoS was announced. When asked about Gamma World being converted to 5E, he answered along the lines of, "Older modules are fairly easy to bring to 5E", as if to say, "We're not working on it, but you can convert it".

Pay attention to the phrasing of Mearls, Perkins and Crawford. They say things when they're saying nothing, if you catch my drift.

[JumboWheat01]

Dreams is just something I love in this set. Druid-heavy settings should have the healing power to fill up for Clerics, and Dreams just does that so well. It makes me think a lot of WoW's Restoration Druids, with a bit of non-combat utility on the side and great movement ability. The idea of being able to flat-out avoid any opportunity attacks every 4 rounds is nice, and extending that benefit to a squishier ally is nice too.

I could see me doing a Dream Druid some day.

The rest, while nice, just don't tickle my interest as much as the Circle of Dreams.

And if all of this is leading towards an Eberron handbook, I'll be extremely happy. I've been playing the crap out of DDO lately, I would love to have actual (and modern) info for the setting.

[jaappleton]

Interesting in that Dreams has enhanced healing...

Glamour Bards also got enhanced healing.

Protection Clerics are essentially a Life Cleric variant in many ways.

Why so many ways to heal, all of a sudden? I think they want the Life Cleric to have competition. "Be a competent healer without being a Life Cleric!"

[DireSickFish]

Nothing in this UA really speaks to me. I'd also have a hard time calling any of it broken beyond what we already get. Land Druid is still my favorite druid type, and there is a lot of variety in that subclass already.

[Mordrigar]

The word "Shepherd" reminded me good old Eberron prestige class: Planar Shepherd

Then I realized "Circle of Dreams." It reminded me Dal Quor which is Eberronian plane of dreams and commonly used for minmax'er Planar Shepherds.

Eberron confirmed!

[RancidRogue]

Mighty Summoner. 0_o

Say hello to my Wolf Totem Barbarian bestie and an endless barrage of Conjure Animals.

[Oramac]

I was really hoping for a druid equivalent of the beast master or an urbanish druid or an archer-based druid.

I've never really cared much for druids, but I was hoping for something along these lines as well.

That said, the Circles they posted are kinda cool. I think the Summoner sounds the most fun, personally.

[Auramis]

Nice that they made support type druids.

Twilight Druid's Harvest Scythe shouldn't be necrotic damage, though I understand thematically why. Mechanically the extra benefit for killing undead won't work so often because most undead are resistant or immune to necrotic damage. The d10s spent are wasted, and you're just hoping the spell's normal damage would be enough to kill the undead. I'd be fine if it was radiant damage and only worked on undead. It also relieves some of the burden on the cleric to deal with undead, and a party without a cleric has a means to deal with undead well enough anyway.

Agreed regarding the necrotic damage. I felt so confused by it because they're meant to fight undead, but they can't actively damage them? I made no sense.

[Steampunkette]

I kind of agree about the Necrotic damage but I also understand the thematic reason -why- they chose Necrotic.

I'd suggest adding a single line to that ability: "This additional damage cannot be resisted or ignored through immunity"

That said: I like the Shepherd a lot. I love the idea of Spirit Shamans or other natural casters that aren't centered around polymorphing themselves.

Twilight, though? It's the perfect subclass to make a Necromancer Refluff of Druid! I can't wait until I find a GM willing to let me describe their spells and class abilities in the terms of necromantic power. Summon Beasts? Function as Beasts but described as Undead Servitors. Entangling vines and roots? Skeletal arms reaching up from the ground! Added necrotic damage, speak with dead, and more? Squeeeeeeeeeeee!

[some guy]

I quite like the recent unearthed arcanas.

I guess the Faithful Summons ability doesn't require concentration.


When asked about Gamma World being converted to 5E, he answered along the lines of, "Older modules are fairly easy to bring to 5E", as if to say, "We're not working on it, but you can convert it".
Ooph, I was already toying with the idea of converting gamma world, it shouldn't be hard indeed, it just takes time. I think the most time would be in more survival and interesting crafting mechanisms.

[Tanarii]

Dreams level 14 Purifying Light:
When you cast a spell with a spell slot and it restores hit points to you or an ally this turn, you can simultaneously target the healed creature with dispel magic, using a spell slot with a level equal to the slot used to cast the healing spell.

Am I reading this right that you have to expend a slot equal to the level of the healing spell being cast to use this benefit? So the benefit here is not having to prepare Dispel Magic, and action economy. Not slot economy.

[SharkForce]

a surprising number of undead can be harmed by necrotic. but yes, it does seem odd that being devoted specifically to killing undead, one of their major abilities is relatively poorly suited for it. i'd say ignore resistance and immunity for undead only would be a better fit than ignoring all resistance and immunity.

still, have to say, these don't feel very exciting to me. kinda boring, for the most part.

(oh, and faithful summons should require concentration, it still says you're casting the spell).

[Foxhound438]

So here's a second look at each:

Dreams-

Balm of the summer court is a very cool ability that's kind of a better worse side grade of lay on hands (better in that it's a ranged bonus action, worse in that you can only use half at a time and can't predict exactly how much, side grade in free move speed vs. disease/poison control), and I do like it as is.

hearth of moon and shadow is probably the least a feature can do without being called a ribbon ability- it does nothing in most cases, but can save you a fight or two over a campaign.

hidden paths seems extremely powerful. Infinite misty steps, costs move instead of action, can move your team as well? forget the 1d4 turn cooldown, this is freaking awesome. (maybe even too awesome)

Purifying light is a bit confusing, I think the intent is that the healing spell gains the effect of dispel magic at its level, but i'm not sure if it wants you to consume two spell slots. In either case, niche but nice.

Overall: stronger than either PHB variant, in my opinion, though many will say "but it's not moon druid tho" so I guess it's fine. I don't think its powers are overbearing at the levels they give them, so it's balanced and potent.


Shepherd-

spirit bond gives you a great way to boost the whole team's effectiveness, and resets on short rests. Best channel divinity ever. Why give an attack +10 once, when you can give your whole team advantage for the whole fight? Extra points for it only costing a bonus action as well. All three options have a potential place in combat, and all three are quite effective in theory. Shame if something walks out of the area, but what can you do about that, eh?

free speak with animals forever is neat, but it's a flavor ribbon. Probably won't get much relevant out of it.

mighty summoner seems fine for a while, but falls off when you want to start summoning non-beasts, like with conjure woodland beings. Nonetheless, it's usable.

free death ward is good, but you're no frontliner. The free ward is pretty much incremental value, but it brings nothing vital into play.

Faithful summons, while... poorly worded, is probably the best feature in this UA. Even if you get put out of the fight, you get a small force of fortified polar bears to cover for you, no concentration needed. Kind of a non-bo with the death ward, but alas, your best case scenario is that this never even gets used.

Overall, I really like the spirit bond as it can set up some really good team tactics, but beyond that it's not super great. Probably would still use it just for that first feature. neither OP nor UP, just good at the things it wants to do.


Twilight- (insert sparkling vampire joke here)

The harvester's scythe gives you a lot more nova potential than any other druid can get- and more than any other caster, for all I know- making this probably the best AOE damage subclass in the game... save for the relatively lacking selection of AOE spells, that is... Ice storm is the first real AOE damage spell these guys get, and it at base has less stopping power than a fireball, but throwing another 3d10 in there for free puts it quite a ways ahead (9d6 fireball at 4th vs 4d6+2d8+3d10 ice storm, storm deals 8 more damage on average- not huge, yet, but as you gain the ability to throw in more and more d10 to stronger spells, it really snowballs.... no pun intended...)

free speak with dead is neat, but not necessarily useful. Flavor ribbon.

watcher gets 2 uncommon resistances (which are pretty commonly used by high CR enemies) and gives advantage on death saves to your allies. Not great, but possibly could come in handy.

free etherialness at 14th level is again neat, but nothing to write home about.

Overall, it's a pretty good burst AOE option, though it has limited resources for that and even more limited options to make it good. Storm of vengeance dealing no-save 1d6+10d10 on its second round seems really brutal, and pretty much wipes most of an incoming army. Narrow as that example is, I do think this contends for best damage dealing caster, despite only getting 2 nuked-up spells per day. Lacking anything to seriously boost your potency after that, I'd say this is balanced enough, though very strong at what it does.

[Foxhound438]

(oh, and faithful summons should require concentration, it still says you're casting the spell).

that would be entirely antithetical- you're incapacitated when the ability triggers. Also it doesn't say you cast it, you gain the benefits of the spell as if it were cast from a 9th level slot.

[Tanarii]

hidden paths seems extremely powerful. Infinite misty steps, costs move instead of action, can move your team as well? forget the 1d4 turn cooldown, this is freaking awesome. (maybe even too awesome)Yeah, my eyes popped wide at that one. It's crazy awesome mobility. I'd change my Ranger 6 / Druid X build over to this one in a heartbeat, even though I'm miles from getting to 16th level. ;)

[rooneg]

No real opinion on the various circles, but I absolutely without question want the optional rule about wild shape forms to be printed and required for Adventurer's League play. That is absolutely brilliant.

[MasterMercury]

No real opinion on the various circles, but I absolutely without question want the optional rule about wild shape forms to be printed and required for Adventurer's League play. That is absolutely brilliant.

Yeah. I DM a bunch of new players. If they ever want to play a Druid, I'm using that rule. Less book-keeping, more role-playing, more exploration, without much of a power drop.

As for the circles, I like twilight and dreams, but Shepard feels a bit odd. It's a summoner boost, but the spirit party boost is a bit odd. Reminds me of that first Ranger revision.

[Anon von Zilch]

Is there some obvious connection to Eberron here that I'm not seeing? Certainly I got excited after seeing the Circle of Dreams, and for sure I want an Eberron book as much as the next person, but the other two circles don't really seem to match up to Eberron's sects. Even the Circle of Dreams doesn't really have abilities one would expect from a Greensinger. Until there is more evidence, I'm going to take a sceptic stance.

[Auramis]

Dreams level 14 Purifying Light:
When you cast a spell with a spell slot and it restores hit points to you or an ally this turn, you can simultaneously target the healed creature with dispel magic, using a spell slot with a level equal to the slot used to cast the healing spell.

Am I reading this right that you have to expend a slot equal to the level of the healing spell being cast to use this benefit? So the benefit here is not having to prepare Dispel Magic, and action economy. Not slot economy.

I think what's intended is that you get the dispel on top of the heal as a bonus effect, similar to how paladins get similar benefits to Lay on Hands as they level. I don't believe it's meant to be read as requiring an extra spell slot used. Just additional power.

[Tanarii]

I think what's intended is that you get the dispel on top of the heal as a bonus effect, similar to how paladins get similar benefits to Lay on Hands as they level. I don't believe it's meant to be read as requiring an extra spell slot used. Just additional power.
Then they really need to add "as if".

When you cast a spell with a spell slot and it restores hit points to you or an ally this turn, you can simultaneously target the healed creature with dispel magic, as if using a spell slot with a level equal to the slot used to cast the healing spell.

[Arkhios]

As for the circles, I like twilight and dreams, but Shepard feels a bit odd. It's a summoner boost, but the spirit party boost is a bit odd. Reminds me of that first Ranger revision.

I take it you're not familiar with the shaman that was introduced in 4th edition, they had a spirit very much like the one the Shepherd has. I'd suggest checking it out, if not for anything else, then for the conceptual reference.

As for the circles, I like dreams and shepherd probably the most, even if they had nothing to do with Eberron (yet I hope they all would).

About the organic beast forms, I don't suppose anyone would be interested to come up with a list appropriate for beasts that dwell underground, like caves and such? :)

[JackOfAllBuilds]

The Circle of Dreams 14th level ability Purifying Light is worded in a way that is confusing, and the three-time limit is useless. I do like that it actually uses Dispel Magic, so you can make an ability check if the targeted spell is higher in level, but I think this should just function like the 6th level Spell Breaker feature of the Arcana Cleric.

"Starting at 6th level, when you restore hit points to an ally with a spell of 1st level or higher,you can also end one spell of your choice on that creature. The level of the spell you end must be equal to or lower than the level of the spell slot you use to cast the healing spell."

It always works, isn't worded to sound like it uses additional spell slots, isn't limited to theee times a day, and only ends equal or lower spells, not higher like the DC for Dispel Magic.

[Tanarii]

I take it you're not familiar with the shaman that was introduced in 4th edition, they had a spirit very much like the one the Shepherd has. I'd suggest checking it out, if not for anything else, then for the conceptual reference.Not really. The 4e Shaman's Spirit did terrain control. It prevented movement through the square, and OAs allowed it to do zone control to a limited degree. In that regard, apart from being killable, a Beast Ranger's Ranger Companion more closely represents a 4e Shaman's Spirit.

Meanwhile this version seems to be about static area buffing.

[Arkhios]

Not really. The 4e Shaman's Spirit did terrain control. It prevented movement through the square, and OAs allowed it to do zone control to a limited degree. In that regard, apart from being killable, a Beast Ranger's Ranger Companion more closely represents a 4e Shaman's Spirit.

Meanwhile this version seems to be about static area buffing.

Then again, 4e was more about tactical movement where terrain control made more sense. 5e doesn't emphasize that that much. It's true that the Beast Master's companion is much more like the 4e spirit companion, if for nothing else, then in how squishy it is. But the difference is that spirit companion is "incorporeal" and provided some kind of constant aid to allies next to it while beast companion is anything but a spirit manifested, more of a liability than helpful aid.

[Sigreid]

The way they present it I think the Dream Shaman is inspired by cultural ideas such as the Australian Dreaming and that is where they get the name.

I like the Shepard druid though I instantly changed it in my mind to "Disney Princess" circle. :smallbiggrin:

[MrStabby]

I keep thinking I should love druids. There is so much to like but they never quite have the execution I want.

Here I have concepts I love (Twilight and a more Fey themed one) and one I don't (can't get excited by Even More Beasts) but the executions are reversed - I like the shepherd execution but not the other two.

I guess the issue is I like a subclass to make the class better at something it does, rather than letting it do something else. Druids summon animals so specialising is mechanically something I am comfortable with. The other archetype abilities feel a little tacked on.

Concepts I would have liked, that could work as archetypes:

A plant themed druid. Plants are as much part of nature as animals and much less well represented in the druid abilities.

A storm druid. Druid feels much more of a home to a storm theme than either the cleric or the sorcerer.

A martial druid. Level 6 extra attack, level 2 weapon proficiency, fighting style HP boost and so on...



Ability wise I would have liked to see more use of wildshape as a resource - I know I am not alone in not really wanting to change form so abilities that would let you expend a use for an equivalently useful effect would appeal.

[Foxhound438]

I like the Shepard druid though I instantly changed it in my mind to "Disney Princess" circle. :smallbiggrin:

pretty much, but more in the sense of the one girl from whichever Shrek movie that started screamo singing to make the animals fight (pretty sure it was a shrek anyways)

[Pex]

Interesting in that Dreams has enhanced healing...

Glamour Bards also got enhanced healing.

Protection Clerics are essentially a Life Cleric variant in many ways.

Why so many ways to heal, all of a sudden? I think they want the Life Cleric to have competition. "Be a competent healer without being a Life Cleric!"

Perhaps they realized in their intent not to pigeonhole cleric as a healbot they made healing too weak. :) PCs can take a good chunk of damage from a fight but not be able to short rest afterwards to spend HD. Healing Word is nice as a bonus action, but it's only efficient for emergencies to prevent PC death and Cure Wounds is not worth the spell slot given how few you get, the amount of damage taken, and the pittance amount it heals.

But I gripe.

:smallbiggrin:

[Belltent]

I think what's intended is that you get the dispel on top of the heal as a bonus effect, similar to how paladins get similar benefits to Lay on Hands as they level. I don't believe it's meant to be read as requiring an extra spell slot used. Just additional power.

If that's what they meant then it is exceptionally poorly worded.

(Also I don't think Lay on Hands works like that)

[8wGremlin]

Doesn't extra damage for Magic Missile get added to all of them?


Would a 2nd Human Circle of Twilight Druid, with Magic Initiate(wizard) and Magic Missile
be able to cast a Magic missile that shot 3 missiles that do (1d4+1) + (1d10) each?

[DragonSorcererX]

If they are following the PHB order, the next UA is Fighter... good... more Ranger clones...

[MinotaurWarrior]

Really really dislike them all.

Each of them, for no clear thematic reason, gives bonus true healing at level 2. Shepard get's extra bonus flavorlessness points, because for some reason it's the wolf totem that grants that power. Because when I think wolf, I think healing.

I also don't like that the Dream circle is the mobility circle for some reason. And the whole Twilight circle just seems... why? Why is that the fifth druid circle they publish? It doesn't deserve that high of a spot.

Shepard is the least terrible of these, imo. Clearly, I am not the target audience for this UA. But hey, I got the Kelemvorite domain last week, so...

[Auramis]

If that's what they meant then it is exceptionally poorly worded.

(Also I don't think Lay on Hands works like that)

Lay on Hands does have a SIMILAR effect, but it's not the same. You can expend 5 points of the healing to cure a diseases/poisons with Lay on Hands. I know it's not the same thing, but it's a similar benefit.

Edit: In hindsight, the only thing similar about it is that they both dispel and they both are taken from a pool based on the class level. My bad. :P

[JackOfAllBuilds]

Lay on Hands does have a SIMILAR effect, but it's not the same. You can expend 5 points of the healing to cure a diseases/poisons with Lay on Hands. I know it's not the same thing, but it's a similar benefit.

Edit: In hindsight, the only thing similar about it is that they both dispel and they both are taken from a pool based on the class level. My bad. :P

Spell Breaker, Cleric: Arcana, SCAG

[Foxhound438]

Doesn't extra damage for Magic Missile get added to all of them?


Would a 2nd Human Circle of Twilight Druid, with Magic Initiate(wizard) and Magic Missile
be able to cast a Magic missile that shot 3 missiles that do (1d4+1) + (1d10) each?

not really; each one has its own damage roll, so the ability would trigger separately each time- you could spend 1 d10 on each, but it'd be the same end effect as just throwing all 3 on one roll, then the other two are unmodified.

[Foxhound438]

Because when I think wolf, I think healing.

doctor doggo is in the house

the dog house that is, his wife is pretty mad about the helicopter he just bought.

doctors, man, if only we all had enough money to be able to have the problem of buying a helicopter someone else didn't like.

[othaero]

not really; each one has its own damage roll, so the ability would trigger separately each time- you could spend 1 d10 on each, but it'd be the same end effect as just throwing all 3 on one roll, then the other two are unmodified.

You roll damage once for MM and use it for all missiles

[DrDinocrusher]

If they are following the PHB order, the next UA is Fighter... good... more Ranger clones...

I think what you mean is fighter will finally replace ranger senpai.

Jokes aside, what I'm hoping we get from fighter is: gladiator, duelist/weapon master, warlord. And since monk is after that, if we don't get a drunken master archetype I'm going to riot.

[Squeeq]

not really; each one has its own damage roll, so the ability would trigger separately each time- you could spend 1 d10 on each, but it'd be the same end effect as just throwing all 3 on one roll, then the other two are unmodified.

I believe that because they hit simultaneously, you roll once for the whole set, which was talked about on twitter recently - that means that yes, you could at six level hit one person with no save and no attack roll with 3d4+9d10+3 damage. Twice. This is probably better than almost any other use of it (I initially thought that a low level spell with a good AoE would be an excellent candidate for a dip), and you'd still have the option to adding it to sleet storm or fire storm.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557823175581769729 Found it! Yes, there's the roll. Now it is druids that can murderize the best. One level Wiz dip for the spell, keep going druid progression to get 19 druid levels (you want it as a spell so you can upcast)

Now you cast magic missile at level 9, which deals 11 darts, adding half your level round down 9d10 to each dart, total of 11d4+99d10+11 damage, which, if I'm remembering correctly, does put this above the power curve more or less for damage. Oh, and you can do it again for just 10d4+88d10+10 damage, not too shabby!


For a less stupid example, let's say you're at level 9, because rounding is easier. Let's use your 4th level spell slots here for consistency, going FULL nova for 4d10 on each bolt - that's 6d4 + 20d10 + 6 if my math is correct.

Also, since it doesnt' say you have to cast the spell with a spell slot, you could probably apply this to spells that are cast via magic items, since it is a spell that is used, and you yourself cast it - if you can get a wand of magic missiles, you can go druid20 just to make things even more stupid, and not waste your high level slot, for example.

As far as I am aware, this is RAW, so I'll tweet this at Jeremy Crawford.

[Auramis]

Spell Breaker, Cleric: Arcana, SCAG

There we are. That's much more similar.

[Shriketalon]

This article is interesting, and certainly not what I expected. I would have pegged the druidic subclasses to be themed around a martial subtype or a beast companion, but it's interesting to see them double down on the spellcaster role. Nonetheless, I can't help but think one major thing from reading this article.

The druidic power pool should replace Wild Shape as a core class feature.

Hear me out. Four out of five druidic subclasses now have absolutely zero interaction with the Wild Shape feature, and they get absolutely nothing out of the Archdruid capstone. Each of the new subclasses is adding a new resource mechanic onto the main chassis (healy dice, hurty dice, spirits) which are all quite interesting individually, but lack a core familiarity.

This should be consolidated into Channel Nature.

The druid gets a number of points equal to their druid level, and just like a cleric's abilities, each subclass gives them a way to channel nature in a different way.

Moon Druids spend druid points to assume wild shapes, freely deciding how many points to spend rather than using the "two per rest" rule. Land Druids spend druid points to cast bonus spells that don't use spell slots. Dream and Twilight druids have the exact current mechanic, rolling dice based on the number of points spent. Shepherd druids can summon spirits via the dice.

This would give the class a much more intuitive system and allow an Archdruid capstone that's actually beneficial for everyone. The capstone could allow power pool regeneration, or they could take a page from the Paladin playbook and give each subclass its own capstone tweak.

[Sigreid]

This article is interesting, and certainly not what I expected. I would have pegged the druidic subclasses to be themed around a martial subtype or a beast companion, but it's interesting to see them double down on the spellcaster role. Nonetheless, I can't help but think one major thing from reading this article.

The druidic power pool should replace Wild Shape as a core class feature.

Hear me out. Four out of five druidic subclasses now have absolutely zero interaction with the Wild Shape feature, and they get absolutely nothing out of the Archdruid capstone. Each of the new subclasses is adding a new resource mechanic onto the main chassis (healy dice, hurty dice, spirits) which are all quite interesting individually, but lack a core familiarity.

This should be consolidated into Channel Nature.

The druid gets a number of points equal to their druid level, and just like a cleric's abilities, each subclass gives them a way to channel nature in a different way.

Moon Druids spend druid points to assume wild shapes, freely deciding how many points to spend rather than using the "two per rest" rule. Land Druids spend druid points to cast bonus spells that don't use spell slots. Dream and Twilight druids have the exact current mechanic, rolling dice based on the number of points spent. Shepherd druids can summon spirits via the dice.

This would give the class a much more intuitive system and allow an Archdruid capstone that's actually beneficial for everyone. The capstone could allow power pool regeneration, or they could take a page from the Paladin playbook and give each subclass its own capstone tweak.

IMO druid is pretty clearly drawn from Celtic lore and shape changing is pretty iconic in those particular legends. More common than in pretty much any other I've heard of. It fits to me that they can all wildshape at least some.

[Regitnui]

I do believe Eberron is coming. Whenever asked about it, Perkins answers along the lines of "We'd be stupid to ignore what fans want."

He said that about bringing Ravenloft to 5E before CoS was announced. When asked about Gamma World being converted to 5E, he answered along the lines of, "Older modules are fairly easy to bring to 5E", as if to say, "We're not working on it, but you can convert it".

Pay attention to the phrasing of Mearls, Perkins and Crawford. They say things when they're saying nothing, if you catch my drift.


The word "Shepherd" reminded me good old Eberron prestige class: Planar Shepherd

Then I realized "Circle of Dreams." It reminded me Dal Quor which is Eberronian plane of dreams and commonly used for minmax'er Planar Shepherds.

Eberron confirmed!

While I won't say confirmed, the wind certainly seems.to be blowing in the direction of Eberron being the second major setting to get official 5e support, with all that comes with it.


Is there some obvious connection to Eberron here that I'm not seeing? Certainly I got excited after seeing the Circle of Dreams, and for sure I want an Eberron book as much as the next person, but the other two circles don't really seem to match up to Eberron's sects. Even the Circle of Dreams doesn't really have abilities one would expect from a Greensinger. Until there is more evidence, I'm going to take a sceptic stance.

The Children of Winter are very much necrotic druids, though they hate undead. They'll work quite happily with fungi, vermin and other vectors of disease and decay. 3.5 gave them the option to "Vermin Shape" instead of Wild Shape, for example. A druid focused around necrotic and the death side of nature associates fairly well with that sect.

The bard UA also dropped an Eberron-friendly subclass; that venomous bard echoes the flavour space filled by Houses Phiarlan and Thuranni; entertainers, spies, assassins. The barbarian UA had the ancestors path, which fits for the Valenar elves, as well as the storm path, which fits the Cloudreaver principality of Lhazaar, who have the fluff of being savage pirates who attack by night and leave nothing behind, and who are PC class barbarians.

I'm not getting excited over one or two indicators here. All those subclasses' flavours fitting Eberron factions might be a coincidence, but the news that the Mystic is also pushing forward quickly and the fact that Eberron was the first ever UA to be released and revised start tipping the scales.

Honest question; does FR have a psionics subtheme or region? Because Eberron has a modular psionics component; the quori, denizens of the Plane of Dreams (Dal Quor), the continent of Sarlona, and the Kalashtar player race. It also took 3.5 EPH and ran with it; the dromites live under Sarlona, the Duergar fight a guerilla war against the Inspired rulers of Riedra, the maenad, xeph and elan (not our favourite ditzy bard) races are all present in Sarlona.

If the Mystic gets its official release, Eberron seems the best default fluff for it, having all that backstory yet also allowing it to be left out if it doesn't need to be there.

So I'm on your side on being skeptical, but the evidence seems to be building up slowly. Even if it is just a SCAG-equivalent Eberron Explorer's Handbook with an adventure in Sharn's Cogs district. Take the Forgotten Forge and its questline about advanced, ancient warforged schema and a sentient quori forge and convert it. Heaven knows its probably the first Eberron adventure most people ever played.

[Arkhios]

While I won't say confirmed, the wind certainly seems.to be blowing in the direction of Eberron being the second major setting to get official 5e support, with all that comes with it.



The Children of Winter are very much necrotic druids, though they hate undead. They'll work quite happily with fungi, vermin and other vectors of disease and decay. 3.5 gave them the option to "Vermin Shape" instead of Wild Shape, for example. A druid focused around necrotic and the death side of nature associates fairly well with that sect.

The bard UA also dropped an Eberron-friendly subclass; that venomous bard echoes the flavour space filled by Houses Phiarlan and Thuranni; entertainers, spies, assassins. The barbarian UA had the ancestors path, which fits for the Valenar elves, as well as the storm path, which fits the Cloudreaver principality of Lhazaar, who have the fluff of being savage pirates who attack by night and leave nothing behind, and who are PC class barbarians.

I'm not getting excited over one or two indicators here. All those subclasses' flavours fitting Eberron factions might be a coincidence, but the news that the Mystic is also pushing forward quickly and the fact that Eberron was the first ever UA to be released and revised start tipping the scales.

Honest question; does FR have a psionics subtheme or region? Because Eberron has a modular psionics component; the quori, denizens of the Plane of Dreams (Dal Quor), the continent of Sarlona, and the Kalashtar player race. It also took 3.5 EPH and ran with it; the dromites live under Sarlona, the Duergar fight a guerilla war against the Inspired rulers of Riedra, the maenad, xeph and elan (not our favourite ditzy bard) races are all present in Sarlona.

If the Mystic gets its official release, Eberron seems the best default fluff for it, having all that backstory yet also allowing it to be left out if it doesn't need to be there.

So I'm on your side on being skeptical, but the evidence seems to be building up slowly. Even if it is just a SCAG-equivalent Eberron Explorer's Handbook with an adventure in Sharn's Cogs district. Take the Forgotten Forge and its questline about advanced, ancient warforged schema and a sentient quori forge and convert it. Heaven knows its probably the first Eberron adventure most people ever played.

...but what about Clerics of the Forge, Grave, and Protection domains? I'm not as well-informed about Eberron as you seem to be, but surely at least Forge domain could hint at Cannith and the creation of Warforged (was it ever explained did Cannith use divine magic in the process? Could make sense, since warforged seem to have souls - isn't that a square hint to the divine?).

Grave Domain could hint at aereni elves, I suppose, but for Protection Domain I've got nothing. Except maybe Silver Flame.

Also, back to barbarians, could the Path of the Zealot refer to maybe Silver Flame? Tira Miron was a warrior before she fell, surely the Faith could inspire warriors with a zeal?

And what about the other primal paths? Couldn't they be linked to Eberron's cultures?

In regards to psionics, if R.A. Salvatore is to be believed, underdark especially seems to draw psionics users: drow have adopted this, and mind flayers are psionic by nature.
Dark Sun, however, could be seen as the pinnacle of Psionic Setting, as all races in the original set up were "psionic-sensitive" so to speak, humans included. Then again, Dark Sun is a bit of a one-trick pony in that regard; there's not much else that's different from classic fantasy.

Eberron has it all, and more, which makes it a good candidate for psionics and the other class options combined. Surely there could again be hints towards how to adapt these rules to other settings, like SCAG did.

[Finback]

The druid gets a number of points equal to their druid level, and just like a cleric's abilities, each subclass gives them a way to channel nature in a different way.

Moon Druids spend druid points to assume wild shapes, freely deciding how many points to spend rather than using the "two per rest" rule. Land Druids spend druid points to cast bonus spells that don't use spell slots. Dream and Twilight druids have the exact current mechanic, rolling dice based on the number of points spent. Shepherd druids can summon spirits via the dice.

This would give the class a much more intuitive system and allow an Archdruid capstone that's actually beneficial for everyone. The capstone could allow power pool regeneration, or they could take a page from the Paladin playbook and give each subclass its own capstone tweak.

I'm now imagining this could be done something like the Wizard's schools - if you take a certain Circle, you get a discount or bonus on how much it costs. e.g. anyone can spend, say, 2 druid points to turn into a beast, but Moon druids get to be more powerful beasts with that expenditure.

[Regitnui]

...but what about Clerics of the Forge, Grave, and Protection domains? I'm not as well-informed about Eberron as you seem to be, but surely at least Forge domain could hint at Cannith and the creation of Warforged (was it ever explained did Cannith use divine magic in the process? Could make sense, since warforged seem to have souls - isn't that a square hint to the divine?).

The Forge domain comes in for the Sovereign Host deity Onatar, worshipped by craftsmen of all races, and who subsumed the dwarven deity Moradin. It's another hint.

As for the Warforged Soul debate, it's unclear. Not even the warforged know, and few of them are interested in debating it.



Grave Domain could hint at aereni elves, I suppose, but for Protection Domain I've got nothing. Except maybe Silver Flame.

I suppose the Undying Court can grant the Grave domain, as would the less sinister parts of the Blood of Vol. Protection domain could easily fall under the Silver Flame or Boldrei, the Sovereign of Hearth and Home. But neither of those are as explicitly flavoured as the others I mentioned.



Also, back to barbarians, could the Path of the Zealot refer to maybe Silver Flame? Tira Miron was a warrior before she fell, surely the Faith could inspire warriors with a zeal?

True. Also the Sovereigns Dol Dorn and his brother the Mockery. But again, no explicit flavour connection.



And what about the other primal paths? Couldn't they be linked to Eberron's cultures?

The ones in the PHB/SCAG?



In regards to psionics, if R.A. Salvatore is to be believed, underdark especially seems to draw psionics users: drow have adopted this, and mind flayers are psionic by nature.
Dark Sun, however, could be seen as the pinnacle of Psionic Setting, as all races in the original set up were "psionic-sensitive" so to speak, humans included. Then again, Dark Sun is a bit of a one-trick pony in that regard; there's not much else that's different from classic fantasy.

Eberron has it all, and more, which makes it a good candidate for psionics and the other class options combined. Surely there could again be hints towards how to adapt these rules to other settings, like SCAG did.

Eberron, despite its departure from High Fantasy, is a great bridging setting. Literally anything can fit into the setting somewhere. Thri-keen and tabaxi, for example, are exotic denizens of Xen'drik. Goblinoid player characters are likely from the kingdom of Darguun. The Z'nir Pact gnolls are a great source for player characters while still allowing the vicious demonic gnolls. Tritons are off the coast of Sarlona (replacing 3.5's aventi).

Eberron is one of the few places where you can have a drow cleric, psionic goblin, elf necromancer, dwarf wizard and sahuagin bard in the same party without having to bend the plot backwards. They're all members of a Xen'drik expeditionary company. Bam. Done.

It's not high fantasy, and so FR makes a better introduction to D&D. But Eberron is D&D's strangeness and uniqueness brought forward. It's my favourite setting, obviously.

[Arkhios]

The ones in the PHB/SCAG?


Nevermind that, I had a derp moment, for some reason recalling there were one more in addition to Ancestral, Storm Herald, and Zealot paths. (I was on my smart phone by the time I wrote it, and couldn't check the pdf).

Also, when Eberron was first released, I was Very Excited about it. Still am, and I agree it's my favorite official setting by far.

[Toofey]

Any thoughts on the introduced ability recharging in 1d4 rounds instead of recharging on a short rest? it seems like any other class that had an ability that powerful would have to wait to use it again.

[Arkhios]

Any thoughts on the introduced ability recharging in 1d4 rounds instead of recharging on a short rest? it seems like any other class that had an ability that powerful would have to wait to use it again.

I think it's related to how fast nature can recover in the right conditions.

[jaappleton]

I think it's related to how fast nature can recover in the right conditions.

I honestly don't like it. I don't like the idea of having to remember how many rounds something has passed before it can be used again. That's why I like the "one minute duration" of most spells. At my table, it means "until the end of the fight".

Having something recharge based on a dice roll makes it seem like a monster stat block ability.

[Arkhios]

I honestly don't like it. I don't like the idea of having to remember how many rounds something has passed before it can be used again. That's why I like the "one minute duration" of most spells. At my table, it means "until the end of the fight".

Having something recharge based on a dice roll makes it seem like a monster stat block ability.

Wouldn't you like if the said ability became available already on the next turn instead of after the fight where you might need it again? 1d4 is decent duration, and not too hard to remember. Sure, it feels like a monster ability, but monster abilities tend to require a roll every turn where you'd roll only once per use.

[Jjj111]

I keep thinking I should love druids. There is so much to like but they never quite have the execution I want.

Here I have concepts I love (Twilight and a more Fey themed one) and one I don't (can't get excited by Even More Beasts) but the executions are reversed - I like the shepherd execution but not the other two.

I guess the issue is I like a subclass to make the class better at something it does, rather than letting it do something else. Druids summon animals so specialising is mechanically something I am comfortable with. The other archetype abilities feel a little tacked on.

Concepts I would have liked, that could work as archetypes:

A plant themed druid. Plants are as much part of nature as animals and much less well represented in the druid abilities.

A storm druid. Druid feels much more of a home to a storm theme than either the cleric or the sorcerer.

A martial druid. Level 6 extra attack, level 2 weapon proficiency, fighting style HP boost and so on...



Ability wise I would have liked to see more use of wildshape as a resource - I know I am not alone in not really wanting to change form so abilities that would let you expend a use for an equivalently useful effect would appeal.

:smallsmile:
I couldn't agree more. I would have been happy with even one of these things.

[jaappleton]

Wouldn't you like if the said ability became available already on the next turn instead of after the fight where you might need it again? 1d4 is decent duration, and not too hard to remember. Sure, it feels like a monster ability, but monster abilities tend to require a roll every turn where you'd roll only once per use.

I understand there's only so many ways to know when a power is available again.

"You can do this once per short rest"
"Once per long rest"
"A number of times per short rest equal to your charisma modifier"
Etc

As far as I can recall, thus far in 5E, this is the first instance of "recharges on a dice roll". I just don't like the feel of it is all. I like the monster ways of handing powers separate from how PCs handle powers. It's totally a personal preference. It could be that if I were to actually play this, I'd have no issue with it. But just looking at how its handled, it doesn't sit right with me.

[Arkhios]

I understand there's only so many ways to know when a power is available again.

"You can do this once per short rest"
"Once per long rest"
"A number of times per short rest equal to your charisma modifier"
Etc

As far as I can recall, thus far in 5E, this is the first instance of "recharges on a dice roll". I just don't like the feel of it is all. I like the monster ways of handing powers separate from how PCs handle powers. It's totally a personal preference. It could be that if I were to actually play this, I'd have no issue with it. But just looking at how its handled, it doesn't sit right with me.

Fair enough. It's a new mechanic, so it might feel a bit off, won't argue about that.

[Regitnui]

Nevermind that, I had a derp moment, for some reason recalling there were one more in addition to Ancestral, Storm Herald, and Zealot paths. (I was on my smart phone by the time I wrote it, and couldn't check the pdf).

Also, when Eberron was first released, I was Very Excited about it. Still am, and I agree it's my favorite official setting by far.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe most of the other campaign settings were created first, with D&D picking them up later. Eberron was built for D&D from the ground up, so it can do that Bane meme to Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance. "You merely adopted 3.5. I was born in it. Moulded by it. I didn't see a bad port until I became a man!"

And then Greyhawk can do it to Eberron.

[Fuzzy Logic]

sheer madness
This has got to be the most broken thing ever released right?

[jaappleton]

This has got to be the most broken thing ever released right?

I dunno, have you considered the Tempest Theurge?

[Joe the Rat]

I understand there's only so many ways to know when a power is available again.

"You can do this once per short rest"
"Once per long rest"
"A number of times per short rest equal to your charisma modifier"
Etc

As far as I can recall, thus far in 5E, this is the first instance of "recharges on a dice roll". I just don't like the feel of it is all. I like the monster ways of handing powers separate from how PCs handle powers. It's totally a personal preference. It could be that if I were to actually play this, I'd have no issue with it. But just looking at how its handled, it doesn't sit right with me.Table play, having the die you rolled in front of you, and ticking it down a point each time your turn is up works well.

But there is already a "recharge on a dice roll" mechanic: The Recharge feature of some monster abilities (most monster Breath Weapons, for example). They could just as easily use this rather than (re)introduce random downtime. Recharge 5-6 or Recharge 6. Done.

[MrFahrenheit]

So I haven't really gone through UA in a while, after seeing how unbalanced a lot of the options it presented ended up being. Have they improved in this regard? A weekly release would lead me to think not.

[rooneg]

So I haven't really gone through UA in a while, after seeing how unbalanced a lot of the options it presented ended up being. Have they improved in this regard? A weekly release would lead me to think not.

I would presume that the weekly release cycle just means "we've got a whole heaping pile of these things because we're about to put them in a book, lets get some feedback before we etch them in stone", not that they're sitting down each week and writing something up at the last minute, with all the additional balance issues that would imply. Not saying there won't be balance issues, but it's playtest material, that's assumed. I just don't think the weekly release will necessarily make it any worse than it has been.

[Tanarii]

So I haven't really gone through UA in a while, after seeing how unbalanced a lot of the options it presented ended up being. Have they improved in this regard? A weekly release would lead me to think not.They're generally better than the Revised Ranger (any of them) or the Theurge, both of which are pretty unbalanced.

The revised rangers would actually be fine if they didn't keep trying to shoehorn in an ambush-type ability at low levels.

[ZX6Rob]

They're generally better than the Revised Ranger (any of them) or the Theurge, both of which are pretty unbalanced.

The revised rangers would actually be fine if they didn't keep trying to shoehorn in an ambush-type ability at low levels.

The final, 20-level version of the Revised Ranger was pretty good. By "ambush ability", are you talking about advantage to initiative score, or the Deep Stalker's one free attack on the first round? Either way, I have to say, I don't think there's anything wrong with those abilities as-is. They're thematic, fun in play, and not really unbalancing.

[Tanarii]

The final, 20-level version of the Revised Ranger was pretty good. By "ambush ability", are you talking about advantage to initiative score, or the Deep Stalker's one free attack on the first round? Either way, I have to say, I don't think there's anything wrong with those abilities as-is. They're thematic, fun in play, and not really unbalancing.
Both. They're both overpowered, even before taking into account they come way too early making them ridiculously good mc dip options.

[Oramac]

This should be consolidated into Channel Nature.

The druid gets a number of points equal to their druid level, and just like a cleric's abilities, each subclass gives them a way to channel nature in a different way.

Moon Druids spend druid points to assume wild shapes, freely deciding how many points to spend rather than using the "two per rest" rule. Land Druids spend druid points to cast bonus spells that don't use spell slots. Dream and Twilight druids have the exact current mechanic, rolling dice based on the number of points spent. Shepherd druids can summon spirits via the dice.

This would give the class a much more intuitive system and allow an Archdruid capstone that's actually beneficial for everyone. The capstone could allow power pool regeneration, or they could take a page from the Paladin playbook and give each subclass its own capstone tweak.

Love it. Absolutely fantastic idea.


IMO druid is pretty clearly drawn from Celtic lore and shape changing is pretty iconic in those particular legends. More common than in pretty much any other I've heard of. It fits to me that they can all wildshape at least some.

So let all the Circles use Wild Shape, and Moon Circle gets to use it with either a) reduced cost and/or b) better animal forms.

[SharkForce]

So let all the Circles use Wild Shape, and Moon Circle gets to use it with either a) reduced cost and/or b) better animal forms.

exactly. I haven't seen a lot of people complaining about unlimited brown bear form being broken OP, and this way you don't have moon druid getting a stupid huge power spike at 20 all of a sudden.

[Saggo]

Hear me out. Four out of five druidic subclasses now have absolutely zero interaction with the Wild Shape feature, and they get absolutely nothing out of the Archdruid capstone.

Archdruid let's any druid ignore components, including costless materials. Very useful capability in it's own right, but that also means for example infinite Giant Eagle shapes that you can cast nearly anything in for any druid.

[DragonSorcererX]

Since you guys are talking about Eberron, what about the Artificer? The UA Artificer was a bit meh, do you guys think WotC will make a Artificer 2.0 when they get to the Wizard in this season of UAs or they will make it a base class?

I prefer base class, the thing of the Artificer wasn't cast spells directly like the UA one does...

[Regitnui]

Since you guys are talking about Eberron, what about the Artificer? The UA Artificer was a bit meh, do you guys think WotC will make a Artificer 2.0 when they get to the Wizard in this season of UAs or they will make it a base class?

I prefer base class, the thing of the Artificer wasn't cast spells directly like the UA one does...

The artificer, like the Mystic, is a concept separate from anything else. It's not an "item wizard", and if WotC officially release a wizard subclass I will buy a plane ticket just so I can ask them what the Dolurrh they were thinking in person. An artificer would be best summarized as an "item enchanter". They have access to the wizard spell list and can enchant that onto any object they're holding, making said object a magical item, usable by anyone, for a limited time. A new class based around that concept would be perfect.

[Arkhios]

Since you guys are talking about Eberron, what about the Artificer? The UA Artificer was a bit meh, do you guys think WotC will make a Artificer 2.0 when they get to the Wizard in this season of UAs or they will make it a base class?

I prefer base class, the thing of the Artificer wasn't cast spells directly like the UA one does...

I think it's either a wizard sub-class, did we like it or not, or they have another new class waiting for us later. Might be part of this rundown like Mystic -- if Mystic is.
Might be just as well be up once they're comfortable enough with a Mystic so that they can move on to next class.

I think it's possible that they run down these PHB class options in order first, then the Mystic and maybe after that, theoretical Artificer.

This post has gone way over the topic, but I'm actually quite excited to see if they have a revision of Favored Soul that's less overly powerful than the previous one.

[SharkForce]

I would say artificer first makes a lot more sense, unless they intend to ignore feedback. which, considering how far off from what we wanted they were last time, is probably not a great idea.

[JumboWheat01]

Maybe Artificer will come back as a Rogue archetype. If there's a base class that screams "faking magic" and using all sorts of tricks, it's the Rogue class.

[RickAllison]

Maybe Artificer will come back as a Rogue archetype. If there's a base class that screams "faking magic" and using all sorts of tricks, it's the Rogue class.

I have really enjoyed my "homebrew" which was just porting some of the Artificer archetype's abilities with new ones on the rogue and fighter. It just blends so well with non-primary casters...

[DragonSorcererX]

This post has gone way over the topic, but I'm actually quite excited to see if they have a revision of Favored Soul that's less overly powerful than the previous one.

I hope they do a differentiation of Favored Soul based on their domain, the Favored Soul with caster-y domains receive bonuses to spellcasting and the Favored Soul with melee focused domains receive bonuses to melee (I know that it is different from the orginal 3.X class, but it would make more sense, and it would be cool to have divine character who wear robes instead of armor).

[Arkhios]

Maybe Artificer will come back as a Rogue archetype. If there's a base class that screams "faking magic" and using all sorts of tricks, it's the Rogue class.

That's actually quite interesting idea, I like that!
Might be kinda like Four Elements monk, mechanics-wise. Infusions with Short Rest recovery, a decent list to pick them up from, and maybe even covering all roguish archetype features in one ability gained at 3rd level.

[thepsyker]

I don't know how mechanically effective it would be, but I kinda like the idea of a Circle of Dreams Firbolg druid. Play up that whole Gentle Giant thing with the healing and protective illusion during a rest, while also having their invisibility and teleporting for trickery shenanigans.

I feel the Shepard circle would be better named as Circle of Totems as it kind of brings to mind the beast spirit connections of the Totem Barbarian. Also I feel that thematically having the auras from Spirit Bond center on and move with the Druid would make more sense then a stationary effect. Narrativally you could describe the bonded spirit as hovering over/guarding the Druid, which personally I think sounds better thematically although I could see how it might be too much of a boost mechanically.

[INDYSTAR188]

Also, when Eberron was first released, I was Very Excited about it. Still am, and I agree it's my favorite official setting by far.

Me three. I enjoy Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft seems pretty neat but I would like to spend more time in Eberron. If it happens to be an excuse to give us more player options, well... that's just even better. :smallcool: I think Sharn might be the coolest RPG city I've ever played in (maybe Sigil?).

[DragonSorcererX]

That's actually quite interesting idea, I like that!
Might be kinda like Four Elements monk, mechanics-wise. Infusions with Short Rest recovery, a decent list to pick them up from, and maybe even covering all roguish archetype features in one ability gained at 3rd level.

Rogue is too stealthy, and that may not make sense with the kind of Artificer that you are trying to build, for example: How am I supposed to benefit from Sneak Attack being an Artificer Blaster (because if you have a class feature, it is better not be useless)?

And this kind of thing unlocks new cheese, for example: If you craft a construct that is tougher than a Familiar/Animal Companion, you basically have a tank that can grant you sneak attack every turn while being one more ally to make your enemies occupied (it doesn't even need to do a bunch of damage, it just need to be tough and draw aggro).

[Millstone85]

A question about the Circle of Dreams.
Do you think the majority of druids, particularly those from other circles, would regard the Feywild as the most triumphant wilderness or as a twisted magical echo of the natural world?

[Temperjoke]

A question about the Circle of Dreams.
Do you think the majority of druids, particularly those from other circles, would regard the Feywild as the most triumphant wilderness or as a twisted magical echo of the natural world?

I think it depends on what they prefer. Personally, to me it seems that the Feywild skews too far to the "wild" so it's not necessarily in a proper balance, which is part of what makes it dangerous.

[Regitnui]

A question about the Circle of Dreams.
Do you think the majority of druids, particularly those from other circles, would regard the Feywild as the most triumphant wilderness or as a twisted magical echo of the natural world?

The Greensingers favour Thelanis over the natural world. For them, the material plane is incomplete and Thelanis is perfected. Of course, most of the denizens of the Planes of Eberron think that way.

[Sigreid]

A question about the Circle of Dreams.
Do you think the majority of druids, particularly those from other circles, would regard the Feywild as the most triumphant wilderness or as a twisted magical echo of the natural world?

I think they would view each as half of a complete whole. Neither able to thrive without the other.

[Arkhios]

I hope they do a differentiation of Favored Soul based on their domain, the Favored Soul with caster-y domains receive bonuses to spellcasting and the Favored Soul with melee focused domains receive bonuses to melee (I know that it is different from the orginal 3.X class, but it would make more sense, and it would be cool to have divine character who wear robes instead of armor).
In my opinion, Favored Soul could make more sense as a Paladin rather than Sorcerer sub-class, although the method for gaining spells might have to change similar to that of a ranger.


Rogue is too stealthy, and that may not make sense with the kind of Artificer that you are trying to build, for example: How am I supposed to benefit from Sneak Attack being an Artificer Blaster (because if you have a class feature, it is better not be useless)?

And this kind of thing unlocks new cheese, for example: If you craft a construct that is tougher than a Familiar/Animal Companion, you basically have a tank that can grant you sneak attack every turn while being one more ally to make your enemies occupied (it doesn't even need to do a bunch of damage, it just need to be tough and draw aggro).

There's nothing stealthy about rogue as is. They don't even get proficiency in stealth as a bonus. Instead you'll have to choose it like any other skill. Cunning action shows cunning, not stealthiness, even if it includes hiding as an option.
Besides, artificer isn't blasty via ways that couldn't benefit from sneak attack. Originally they didn't cast pure spells, only infusing items with magic. Infusing a ranged weapon with magic would be as close to blasty as I can imagine.
Honestly, I wouldn't use 4th edition as a reference for anything that has existed before that.

Also, I don't think there's a major problem in having a construct to provide a relatively reliable way to deal Sneak Attack damage every turn, since a Swashbuckler already has a method for that, and Arcane Trickster can have a Familiar. And why would the construct be any more tough than a familiar or animal companion? Again, don't use 4th edition as a reference material, 4th edition has very different standards than anything prior to that, or 5th edition.

I'll have to check my resources, but IIRC, 3.5 artificer didn't have a construct as a class feature, thus being likely a 4th edition addition (although it does fit for the class).

[MeeposFire]

There's nothing stealthy about rogue as is. They don't even get proficiency in stealth as a bonus. Instead you'll have to choose it like any other skill. Cunning action shows cunning, not stealthiness, even if it includes hiding as an option.
Besides, artificer isn't blasty via ways that couldn't benefit from sneak attack. Originally they didn't cast pure spells, only infusing items with magic. Infusing a ranged weapon with magic would be as close to blasty as I can imagine.
Honestly, I wouldn't use 4th edition as a reference for anything that has existed before that.

Also, I don't think there's a major problem in having a construct to provide a relatively reliable way to deal Sneak Attack damage every turn, since a Swashbuckler already has a method for that, and Arcane Trickster can have a Familiar. And why would the construct be any more tough than a familiar or animal companion? Again, don't use 4th edition as a reference material, 4th edition has very different standards than anything prior to that, or 5th edition.

I'll have to check my resources, but IIRC, 3.5 artificer didn't have a construct as a class feature, thus being likely a 4th edition addition (although it does fit for the class).

They could craft a hummoncoulous (well actually several) and could get craft construct as a bonus feat. Making constructs was quite common. In fact the most common was probably the one that would craft things for you using your skill. Artificers would make one and a portable hole and put it in the whole with everything it needed to make items and just put it to work.



Funny when I conceived a kit for 2e for the artificer I did it for the rogue though it was the bard. changed out spell for infusions and songs for crafting. Gave them open lock and trap related skills and removed the ones that did not make sense. In BG2 I had it for the rogue instead since thief skills were hard coded.

[Arkhios]

They could craft a hummoncoulous (well actually several) and could get craft construct as a bonus feat. Making constructs was quite common. In fact the most common was probably the one that would craft things for you using your skill. Artificers would make one and a portable hole and put it in the whole with everything it needed to make items and just put it to work.



Funny when I conceived a kit for 2e for the artificer I did it for the rogue though it was the bard. changed out spell for infusions and songs for crafting. Gave them open lock and trap related skills and removed the ones that did not make sense. In BG2 I had it for the rogue instead since thief skills were hard coded.

Thieves' tools make a sensible bridge to tinkering with all sorts of devices, which also supports the artificer as a rogue sub-class. It's hard coded for the class.

I seem to recall that being able to craft a homunculus was open to everyone, not just artificer, though it makes sense that an artificer would be able to make an improved homuculus.

[Regitnui]

I think you had to take a feat to build homunculi, but it was one that the artificer got for free. There were also a greater variety of specialized homunculi, ranging from the packmate to the iron defender.

I could see artificer come in as a gadgeteer-style subclass to the rogue or bard, in that order. Rogues are still skillmonkeys, so they'd easily handle the mcguyver adventuring artificer.

[Millstone85]

I think it depends on what they prefer. Personally, to me it seems that the Feywild skews too far to the "wild" so it's not necessarily in a proper balance, which is part of what makes it dangerous.
The Greensingers favour Thelanis over the natural world. For them, the material plane is incomplete and Thelanis is perfected. Of course, most of the denizens of the Planes of Eberron think that way.
I think they would view each as half of a complete whole. Neither able to thrive without the other.Three very different answers. The Material is better / The Feywild is better / They are complementary.
Not a bad thing, actually. That sounds like an interesting druidic debate.

And it might get even more interesting when one considers the Shadowfell. Is it just a rotten reflection of the Material? Is it "too dark" much like the Feywild is "too bright"? Is it part of the multiplanar balance, it and the Feywild being as necessary to the Material as the planes of fire and water? The Circle of Twilight might have some unusual opinions on that.

[Regitnui]

Three very different answers. The Material is better / The Feywild is better / They are complementary.
Not a bad thing, actually. That sounds like an interesting druidic debate.

And it might get even more interesting when one considers the Shadowfell. Is it just a rotten reflection of the Material? Is it "too dark" much like the Feywild is "too bright"? Is it part of the multiplanar balance, it and the Feywild being as necessary to the Material as the planes of fire and water? The Circle of Twilight might have some unusual opinions on that.

The Children of Winter have a similar relationship to Mabar as the Greensingers to Thelanis.

[VoxRationis]

I rather like the Circle of Twilight (though the necrotic damage problem someone pointed out is something that needs fixing). Given the average druid's hatred for the undead, it seems appropriate that at least some druids should have tools to fight them. I am not a fan of the additional resources added for these subclasses. Don't druids already have enough fiddly bits to take care of?

[Temperjoke]

I rather like the Circle of Twilight (though the necrotic damage problem someone pointed out is something that needs fixing). Given the average druid's hatred for the undead, it seems appropriate that at least some druids should have tools to fight them. I am not a fan of the additional resources added for these subclasses. Don't druids already have enough fiddly bits to take care of?

Not really, at least in my opinion. I mean, Land Druids just worry about spell slots, maybe Moon Druids with worrying about the forms they're changing into, but that's solved with a little prep work of having the stats handy.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I rather like the Circle of Twilight (though the necrotic damage problem someone pointed out is something that needs fixing). Given the average druid's hatred for the undead, it seems appropriate that at least some druids should have tools to fight them. I am not a fan of the additional resources added for these subclasses. Don't druids already have enough fiddly bits to take care of?

I think variation in fiddliness is a good thing. I don't like these classes, but I think it's good for the game if I can be a druid with one knob and you can be a druid with twelve knobs. That's something that varies from player to player and even game to game independently of more important concerns like character concept.

The PHB does a better job of this with some classes (Fighter, Warlock) than others (Bard), imo.

[SharkForce]

I think variation in fiddliness is a good thing. I don't like these classes, but I think it's good for the game if I can be a druid with one knob and you can be a druid with twelve knobs. That's something that varies from player to player and even game to game independently of more important concerns like character concept.

The PHB does a better job of this with some classes (Fighter, Warlock) than others (Bard), imo.

technically, this was as i recall one of the explicit promises of 5e: you'd be able to play a complex character alongside a simple character and both would be equally effective.

of course, one of the promises of 4th edition was to de-emphasise items and re-emphasise character abilities at one point, and i'm not particularly convinced they delivered on that promise at all, but it would be nice to see more variation in complexity for 5e.

(it would be even nicer if you could play a complex champion or a simple champion, and a complex battlemaster or a simple battlemaster, but if i'm honest i kinda just assumed the promise was pure BS in the first place so having a champion that is at least playable in the same game as a battlemaster is, comparatively speaking, a pleasant surprise).