Deep Gnome Eldritch Knight Build

[rooneg]

I've gotten it in my head to make a Deep Gnome Eldritch Knight as my next Adventurer's League character, since they look like they make an awesome tank and the SCAG cantrips are fun. It'll be starting at level 4 or 5 due to cashing in some DM Rewards, and I'd like to sketch out the progression through level 12 or so to make sure I'm not doing something silly.

(First off, I'm aware that this build is somewhat suboptimal. A Rock Gnome makes a better STR based EK than a Deep Gnome does, but I like the Svirfneblin Magic feat as a way to do a little more casting beyond the anemic spell selection you usually get from an EK and I'm not interested in a DEX based build because I want a d8 weapon and I can't get past using the mental image of a gnome wielding a rapier in full plate armor. Also note that this is limited to the Player's Handbook and Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, since I can only use two sources under Adventurer's League rules.)

The plan is to wrap this guy in as much armor as is available, give him a warhammer and a shield (dueling style) and let him spam the shield spell all day long.

Abilities (point buy):

STR 15
DEX 9 + 1 = 10
CON 14
INT 12 + 2 = 14
WIS 13
CHA 9

ASIs would be spent as follows.

Lvl 4: Svirfneblin Magic (I figure you want it early or not at all)
Lvl 6: Heavy Armor Master (rounds STR up to 16)
Lvl 8: Warcaster
Lvl 12: Resilient WIS (rounds WIS up to 14)

Questions here are mostly about ordering, and if Resilient WIS would be better spent on an ASI for STR.

Spell selection would look like this.

EK Level 3: Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Shield, Magic Missile, (Find Familiar or Hideous Laughter)
EK Level 7: (Scorching Ray or Shatter)
EK Level 8: (Misty Step or Hold Person)
EK Level 10: (Fire Bolt or Lightning Lure), (Scorching Ray or Shatter)
EK Level 11: Darkness

The question marks here are basically...

1) Do I take Find Familiar or Hideous Laughter on level 1? Find Familiar is awesome due to the help action, but so is Hideous Laughter as a poor man's Hold Person. Hideous Laughter gives them a save though, and uses up concentration that could be used on my Blur. Of course Blur is only 1/day anyway, so maybe that's ok?

2) Is Shatter or Scorching Ray better at level 7? Not that it matters much, since the other one gets picked up at level 10. The other level 2 evocation and abjuration spells seem nowhere near as good.

3) Do I want to Hold Person people and beat the crap out of them, or Misty Step all over the place? Both seem awesome.

4) At level 10 do I want a ranged attack cantrip like Fire Bolt, or Lightning Lure to pull people in to melee range? Both seem fun.

5) At level 11 is there a better 2nd level evocation or abjuration spell than Darkness? Darkness seems redundant with Blindness/Deafness.

Thoughts?

[rooneg]

Hmm. Talking to myself here, but now that I think some more, perhaps Gnome Cunning's advantage on INT/WIS/CHA saves vs magic means Resilient WIS isn't as important. I could shift the 13th point of WIS over to DEX in anticipation of picking up Resilient DEX instead, and then I'd have CON, DEX and WIS saves at least sort of covered.

[djreynolds]

Its a good build, maybe even squeeze in 2 levels of abjurer wizard for arcane ward.

I like the blur spell, feather fall, and protection from evil and absorb elements if you could grab anyone of them and fireshield (no concentration)

[Specter]

An abjurer multiclass is optimal here, probably after level 7 or 10. That nondetection cheese can go a long way. As a final build, EK12/Wiz8 is nice.

[rooneg]

Its a good build, maybe even squeeze in 2 levels of abjurer wizard for arcane ward.

I like the blur spell, feather fall, and protection from evil and absorb elements if you could grab anyone of them and fireshield (no concentration)

Yeah, I'm actually considering stopping at 8th level for fighter (after War Magic and the 8th level ASI) and going Wizard (probably Abjuration) from there on out. The Arcane Ward would make up for the missing HP, and I could get a lot more cool spells that way. Most of the spells that make a EK really shine are outside evocation and abjuration, ironically, and Abjuration plus on-demand nondetection means the ward is always full.

[TimBobDAnimal]

I just finished playing an Eldritch Knight in my recent campaign for what it s worth;

The EK is best played defensively. Your best choices for spells are ones like Shield, Absorb Elements and the like. So you get a lot of mileage out of the EK spell selection despite it seeming very limited. Increasing your mobility is the best use for your "free" spells. I took Expeditious Retreat, Misty Step and Haste as my free picks for that reason. Being able to place your meat shield wherever it best helps your party in the long run. It lets your leverage your Booming Blade better and control the most daunting enemies on the field to the benefit of your squishier teammates.

I don't recommend Darkness; you will get far more use from choosing spells that shore up your poor mobility than you will from disabling enemies.

Attack spells scale poorly with the EK so the only one I recommend is Magic Missile, only because it automatically hits. I still swapped it out for Protection from Good and Evil when I got to a higher level. I took Scorching Ray too, but ultimately swapped it out, because it will never do the damage you want without a boost from a casting subclass.

Cantrips are very open, but again I took ones that allowed me to control enemies. Booming Blade and Lightning Lure allow you force enemies to you and still get good DPR. Firebolt allows you to do damage even when enemies are too far to hit in melee.

As for feats, Warcaster is golden because it lets you hold a shield, hit opponents with Booming Blade and makes your concentration rock solid. Everything else is gravy; I took Mobility, Alert and Resilient Wisdom by the time I hit level 8 (I was a V.Human). My character was always on the scariest looking guy before they could really threaten my party because of that.

I would built like this:

Keep stats as is.

Level 3 Spells: Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Shield, Absorb Elements, Expeditious Retreat
Level 4: Take Svirfneblin Magic
Level 6: Take Warcaster
Level 7: Protection from Good and Evil
Level 8: Misty Step and bump Str and Wis

You can multiclass after level 8 into Abjuration Wizard. Its solid if you don't want to single class. If you do stick with EK, Haste is a must.

[rooneg]

I just finished playing an Eldritch Knight in my recent campaign for what it s worth;

The EK is best played defensively. Your best choices for spells are ones like Shield, Absorb Elements and the like. So you get a lot of mileage out of the EK spell selection despite it seeming very limited. Increasing your mobility is the best use for your "free" spells. I took Expeditious Retreat, Misty Step and Haste as my free picks for that reason. Being able to place your meat shield wherever it best helps your party in the long run. It lets your leverage your Booming Blade better and control the most daunting enemies on the field to the benefit of your squishier teammates.

Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. I really want Absorb Elements, but sadly I can't take it due to it being an EE spell and my PHB+1 source is SCAG for the cantrips. Maybe if I multiclass into Wizard I can copy Absorb Elements from someone else's spellbook, but that'll be level 9 at the earliest.


I don't recommend Darkness; you will get far more use from choosing spells that shore up your poor mobility than you will from disabling enemies.

Fair point. Darkness is off the agenda ;-)


Attack spells scale poorly with the EK so the only one I recommend is Magic Missile, only because it automatically hits. I still swapped it out for Protection from Good and Evil when I got to a higher level. I took Scorching Ray too, but ultimately swapped it out, because it will never do the damage you want without a boost from a casting subclass.

Yeah, that makes some sense.


Cantrips are very open, but again I took ones that allowed me to control enemies. Booming Blade and Lightning Lure allow you force enemies to you and still get good DPR. Firebolt allows you to do damage even when enemies are too far to hit in melee.

Did you ever find yourself wishing for Green-Flame Blade instead of Booming Blade, just to be able to more easily deal with multiple mook level enemies? Hitting up to 3 people a turn seems good, or doing effectively double the damage to two people without relying on them to move like Booming Blade. I sort of want to take all three SCAG cantrips, then pick up Fire Bolt at level 9 if I go in to Wizard.


As for feats, Warcaster is golden because it lets you hold a shield, hit opponents with Booming Blade and makes your concentration rock solid. Everything else is gravy; I took Mobility, Alert and Resilient Wisdom by the time I hit level 8 (I was a V.Human). My character was always on the scariest looking guy before they could really threaten my party because of that.

Hmm. I think I may have underestimated Warcaster's importance. It's not as big a deal for the SCAG cantrips, since they lack somatic components, so you can still cast them with a shield and weapon in hand even if you don't have Warcaster, but I just noticed Shield has a somatic component, so maybe I want Warcaster at 4th level, just to let me actually use Shield as a reaction while holding a weapon and shield. Then pick up Svirfneblin Magic at 6. It'd just be one level before Svirfneblin Magic came online (since I'll be starting at 5), and being able to use Shield is a big deal for survivability.


I would built like this:

Keep stats as is.

Level 3 Spells: Booming Blade, Lightning Lure, Shield, Absorb Elements, Expeditious Retreat
Level 4: Take Svirfneblin Magic
Level 6: Take Warcaster
Level 7: Protection from Good and Evil
Level 8: Misty Step and bump Str and Wis

You can multiclass after level 8 into Abjuration Wizard. Its solid if you don't want to single class. If you do stick with EK, Haste is a must.

Hmm. So you'd value an extra +1 to WIS saves (which I usually get at advantage anyway due to Gnome Cunning) more than Heavy Armor Master? Just because our AC tends to be high enough that the damage reduction isn't as good?

As I said, can't get Absorb Elements as an EK spell, so I guess that will be a Magic Missile for auto-hit damage. Agreed it's not great though.

Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful!

[rooneg]

An abjurer multiclass is optimal here, probably after level 7 or 10. That nondetection cheese can go a long way. As a final build, EK12/Wiz8 is nice.

I think 8 levels of EK at least, since it lets you pick up an extra ASI before dipping in to Wizard, and this build REALLY WANTS ASIs but who knows, I might feel different about it once I get there. I am definitely falling in love with the idea of some Wizard levels after the first 7-8 of EK.

[TimBobDAnimal]

Did you ever find yourself wishing for Green-Flame Blade instead of Booming Blade, just to be able to more easily deal with multiple mook level enemies? Hitting up to 3 people a turn seems good, or doing effectively double the damage to two people without relying on them to move like Booming Blade. I sort of want to take all three SCAG cantrips, then pick up Fire Bolt at level 9 if I go in to Wizard.

Hmm. So you'd value an extra +1 to WIS saves (which I usually get at advantage anyway due to Gnome Cunning) more than Heavy Armor Master? Just because our AC tends to be high enough that the damage reduction isn't as good?


1) I had Green-Flame at the end of my campaign. I didn't use it often, only in the circumstances that you describe. My DM was the kind to always have a stronger sergeant type amongst weak monsters, but your DM might love hordes, so its a matter of campaign tone. I was glad to have firebolt early though, it was helpful when I was in open fields, castle sieges and against flying enemies.

2) I would only boost both Str and Wis because its a very efficient option. As you said, an EK's AC is so high that damage reduction doesn't have the same appeal that it normally would have. That said, your mental saves will be good regardless, so I actually have a flavourful suggestion that isn't optimal; take Tavern Brawler. It lets you attack with your shield (with proficiency!) as an offhand attack and allows you to fight better if you are disarmed. Athlete is another option that could be fun if your team doesn't have a cat burglar/rogue type and fits the nimble warrior role if you are not super committed to being optimal all the time.

[djreynolds]

1) I had Green-Flame at the end of my campaign. I didn't use it often, only in the circumstances that you describe. My DM was the kind to always have a stronger sergeant type amongst weak monsters, but your DM might love hordes, so its a matter of campaign tone. I was glad to have firebolt early though, it was helpful when I was in open fields, castle sieges and against flying enemies.

2) I would only boost both Str and Wis because its a very efficient option. As you said, an EK's AC is so high that damage reduction doesn't have the same appeal that it normally would have. That said, your mental saves will be good regardless, so I actually have a flavourful suggestion that isn't optimal; take Tavern Brawler. It lets you attack with your shield (with proficiency!) as an offhand attack and allows you to fight better if you are disarmed. Athlete is another option that could be fun if your team doesn't have a cat burglar/rogue type and fits the nimble warrior role if you are not super committed to being optimal all the time.

You know that's a good idea, and it makes cleric also a good option as well using the EK stuff for defense and even spamming sacred flame as a go to cantrip for range or melee.

Its a good class.

[rooneg]

1) I had Green-Flame at the end of my campaign. I didn't use it often, only in the circumstances that you describe. My DM was the kind to always have a stronger sergeant type amongst weak monsters, but your DM might love hordes, so its a matter of campaign tone. I was glad to have firebolt early though, it was helpful when I was in open fields, castle sieges and against flying enemies.

2) I would only boost both Str and Wis because its a very efficient option. As you said, an EK's AC is so high that damage reduction doesn't have the same appeal that it normally would have. That said, your mental saves will be good regardless, so I actually have a flavourful suggestion that isn't optimal; take Tavern Brawler. It lets you attack with your shield (with proficiency!) as an offhand attack and allows you to fight better if you are disarmed. Athlete is another option that could be fun if your team doesn't have a cat burglar/rogue type and fits the nimble warrior role if you are not super committed to being optimal all the time.

Sadly, this is an Adventurer's League character that will basically only get played at cons and random game day type things. I don't have the schedule flexibility to get in a regular game. That means I can't really count on an particular DM style or party composition. I just take a bunch of characters and pick the one that fits best for the table I end up at. Sometimes it's the Arcana Cleric 1/Wizard X, sometimes it's the Knowledge Cleric 1/Bard X, sometimes it's the Vengeance Paladin, and sometimes it'll be this EK Gnome ;-)

Food for thought on GFB and Heavy Armor Master though. I'll definitely have to think about cantrip selection before I start and alternate feat choices before I hit level 8.

[djreynolds]

Resilient wisdom is that good. Getting charmed or frightened sucks.

But that said it is no given that you will make the save anyhow, I like protection from evil as those types of spells often involve... well those types of adversaries anyhow.

[SharkForce]

i have some rather unfortunate news for you.

deep gnomes are from the elemental evil supplement. you can have the deep gnome race or SCAG cantrips, not both, in AL.

[rooneg]

i have some rather unfortunate news for you.

deep gnomes are from the elemental evil supplement. you can have the deep gnome race or SCAG cantrips, not both, in AL.

Deep Gnomes are also from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. You can use them with either in AL.

It's similar to the situation with Goliaths, which show up in both EE and Volo's, and the only difference is if you're from EE you get extra spell options and if you're from Volo's you get stuck with their AL specific background fluff.

[SharkForce]

Deep Gnomes are also from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. You can use them with either in AL.

It's similar to the situation with Goliaths, which show up in both EE and Volo's, and the only difference is if you're from EE you get extra spell options and if you're from Volo's you get stuck with their AL specific background fluff.

huh. fair enough. guess this sort of mixup is somewhat bound to happen when i don't like the realms enough to buy the realms-specific book with only a few pages of material good for general use.

[rooneg]

Another thought that hit me this morning on my commute in to work. Perhaps I should consider taking a 1 level dip into Wizard before I hit level 7 in Fighter. I'm starting with DM XP credit, which puts me at level 4. Then I burn 20 days of downtime to get me to level 5. If I take that level as Wizard instead of Fighter it has some interesting effects.

1) Puts off Extra Attacks for 1 level. This is made less bad by the existence of Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, which at 5th level are already sort of like having an extra attack (although with slightly less damage and single attack roll).
2) Puts Svirfneblin Magic and War Magic one level further out. Very sad.
3) Lets me fill out the cantrip selection, so I end up with something like Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, Lightning Lure, Fire Bolt, Minor Illusion. This is super cool, as I get all the melee ones, a ranged one, plus Minor Illusion, which is awesome.
4) Lets me grab a pile of non-evocation/abjuration 1st level spells, also I can grab a bunch of rituals, which is great when I'm planning to spam Shield all day long. Probably get Find Familiar, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Hideous Laughter, Feather Fall, Magic Missile.
5) Since I've got a spellbook I can copy spells from people! Getting this earlier means I'm able to maximize the number of games where I might encounter someone who knows Absorb Elements, the one awesome reaction spell I can't learn when leveling up due to AL rules about sources = PHB+1.
6) Arcane Recovery means in practice I get one extra spell slot per day.

Am I crazy, or is that starting to sound like a good deal?

[Ziegander]

You can't spend downtime training to gain levels for which you don't have the experience points...

Spending downtime to gain levels at all is a variant rule over just gaining the next level when you have the appropriate number of experience points.

[rooneg]

You can't spend downtime training to gain levels for which you don't have the experience points...

Spending downtime to gain levels at all is a variant rule over just gaining the next level when you have the appropriate number of experience points.

When I say "spending downtime" I mean using the Adventurer's League "Catching Up" downtime activity to move from level 4 to level 5 in return for 20 downtime days. You can use that level for whatever you want, it's not restricted to existing classes, but even if it was I could just use my initial DM Rewards XP to build a Fighter 3/Wizard 1, then use the 5th level from Catching Up to get to Fighter 4. It's a brand new character, so there is pretty much infinite flexibility available in the build.

[Ziegander]

When I say "spending downtime" I mean using the Adventurer's League "Catching Up" downtime activity to move from level 4 to level 5 in return for 20 downtime days. You can use that level for whatever you want, it's not restricted to existing classes, but even if it was I could just use my initial DM Rewards XP to build a Fighter 3/Wizard 1, then use the 5th level from Catching Up to get to Fighter 4. It's a brand new character, so there is pretty much infinite flexibility available in the build.

Ah! Okay. I didn't realize there was a special AL downtime activity used for this express purpose! My bad.

[rooneg]

Ah! Okay. I didn't realize there was a special AL downtime activity used for this express purpose! My bad.

It's usually there so that if you have someone who's missed a few sessions but wants to jump to the next tier along with the rest of the party they don't get left behind, but it's also handy for people like me, who just want to skip levels 1-4 with a character and start them at level 5. Saves you from having to burn 3800 XP to get from level 4 to 5!