Epic druid spells and spellcraft checks.

[Hiro Quester]

How does a non INT-focussed caster handle the massive spacecraft checks needed to cast epic spells?

Playing a Druid. Just made 19th level. DM has just informed us that he estimates that we will probably be playing to 21 or 22 level to finish out the story.

So Epic spells are a possibility, then. But I have put all my investment of abilities into Wis and Con, with minimal investment in Intelligence.

Spellcraft is close to maxed out, by 20th level I'll have 23 ranks there. But with a 12 intelligence, my Int bonus isn't adding much to spellcraft checks.

I can --and will-- get a headband of intellect to boost int-based skills. That can get my int bonus to +4 at best.

So a masterwork item of spellcraft will add +2, headband and natural intelligence +4, and 23-25 ranks only gets my spellcraft to D20+29-31 or so.

Knowledge (arcana) offers a spellcraft synergy bonus, but that is cross class, and usually taken care of by the party wizard and incantatrix/sorceror. It will take a big investment in a mostly redundant skill to get that synergy bonus.

Is it even worth trying to get spellcraft high enough? Even the lower end of the spellcraft range for epic spells seems to be in the range of 60 or so spellcraft check required too cast the spell.

I'd like to talk to our cheese-averse DM (the incantatrix has some limits placed on him --no item familiar, for example) about getting a custom item to boost spellcraft checks. But I'm wary because then everyone (esp. the incantatrix) will want one. And that could get difficult for the DM to balance.

Other skill-enhancing spells like Divine Insight seem useful when you know you'll be casting an epic spell. But impossible to use if you want to learn/develop spells that are cast on the fly, with little notice.

Hmmm... Perhaps creating a 3/day item of Divine Insight would be a worthy investment for +20 to a skill check.

How else can a Druid cast epic spells, when so much of epic spellcasting seems focussed on intelligence/spellcraft and arcane casting that are biased towards wizards?

Is it even worth trying to be able to cast epic spells for a divine caster like a druid?

Perhaps I should look at branching out into a different (non-casting-progressing?) class altogether once I reach epic levels. Branch into monk, fist of the forest, or whatever.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has played a druid to epic levels.

Even suggestions for epic spells that might not have such a high spellcraft check (or effective and manageable ways of mitigating the check --e.g. backlash--) would be welcome.

[InvisibleBison]

You mentioned having other spellcasters in the party. That's good, because the simplest way to lower the DC of your epic spells is to make it a ritual. A pair of 9th level spell slots lower the DC by 34. If your party members can't or won't help, summoning spellcasting outsiders to help out is a classic move. Additionally, you may be interested in the variant rule on page 72 of the DMG ELH that allows spellcasters to use their spellcasting key ability instead of Intelligence for Spellcraft checks to cast epic spells.

Also, if your DM is leery of skill-boosting items, perhaps he'll allow you to create one if you limit to only be able to be used when casting an epic spell.

[Hiro Quester]

Rituals sound like a good way to do this.


Additionally, you may be interested in the variant rule on page 72 of the DMG that allows spellcasters to use their spellcasting key ability instead of Intelligence for Spellcraft checks to cast epic spells.


That's an interesting rule I did not know about. I'd like to talk to DM about that variant. But it doesn't seem to be on p.72 of DMG (that's about making traps). I can't see it in the section about epic characters, classes and feats. Do you know where it is?

Edit: Found it. P. 72 of Epic Level Handbook. thanks.

[Dragonexx]

Create an epic spell that gives you a bonus to spellcraft. Then use that to create one that gives you a higher bonus to spellcraft. Repeat ad nauseum.

[danielxcutter]

Depends on what spells you want to use. The Life and Heal seeds can only used if you have 24 ranks in Knowledge(nature) or Knowledge(religion), so your epic-level Druid would likely be the only one able to use them(if you're the only divine caster, that is).

[Hiro Quester]

Depends on what spells you want to use. The Life and Heal seeds can only used if you have 24 ranks in Knowledge(nature) or Knowledge(religion), so your epic-level Druid would likely be the only one able to use them(if you're the only divine caster, that is).


We have a fairly large group of 8 players, but most nights only 4-6 of us can play (middle aged players with families and busy careers). So my Druid is the utility player who fills in on whatever needs doing (melee, healing, NFC, buffing, or whatever).

So yes, we do have a cleric as well as a sorcerer and wizard.

I have not yet read the ELH in detail. But it looks like epic ritual spells with other casters contributing spell slots will be a good idea.

But still one caster learns the spell and leads the ritual, right? Or do all casters in the ritual have to learn it?

[danielxcutter]

We have a fairly large group of 8 players, but most nights only 4-6 of us can play (middle aged players with families and busy careers). So my Druid is the utility player who fills in on whatever needs doing (melee, healing, NFC, buffing, or whatever).

So yes, we do have a cleric as well as a sorcerer and wizard.

I have not yet read the ELH in detail. But it looks like epic ritual spells with other casters contributing spell slots will be a good idea.

But still one caster learns the spell and leads the ritual, right? Or do all casters in the ritual have to learn it?

I believe that only you have to learn the epic spell in question, if you're going for a ritual type.

Also, ask the other players what epic spells they want to make, to avoid overlapping. One of the most fun parts of epic spells is personalizing them.

Finally, this is just a suggestion, but there are some seeds that fit Druids better when used in the right way:

-The Life seed can be used to create life or awaken non-sentinent objects or lifeforms, as well as a more powerful version of True Resurrection. That last part might be better for a Cleric, though.

-The Energy seed can be used to control weather. Set the basic difficulty to 25 and it affects a 20-mile radius 10 minutes after you cast it for 20 hours. I recommend making a toned-down version of Dire Winter, but making lightning rain down on your enemies sounds fun as well. Might have to speak with the DM, though.

More information would be welcomed, though, depending on what the others are doing.