Barbarian rogue

[Shadowscale]

Hey I was just wondering how one would go about building a character that blends together stealthy thief with brutish thug, my idea was to be a sneak attack fighter specializing in stealth and two handed weapons like a greatsword. I know these concepts don't always go hand and hand so I was wondering what y'all all thought would work?

[DrMotives]

I've thought about what a blend of those two classes would be like before, and I think it feels most concept-wise to a serial killer. I don't see one as not having an evil alignment and making sense, fluffwise. But pulling ideas from Races of Destiny or Cityscape would be how I develop the character.

[legomaster00156]

Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that while the typical Rogue has high DEX, they actually have no class features that require it. For this reason, a STR-based Rogue is a perfectly legitimate build. Once you consider that, you can just build your abilities like an unusually intelligent Barbarian.

[Shadowscale]

Well, the first thing to keep in mind is that while the typical Rogue has high DEX, they actually have no class features that require it. For this reason, a STR-based Rogue is a perfectly legitimate build. Once you consider that, you can just build your abilities like an unusually intelligent Barbarian.
For a thug type mugger, is there anyway in pathfinder to make up for the reduced BAB?

[legomaster00156]

No, not without multiclassing. You can benefit from Haste or similar effects, but you'll never have that last attack without a few levels in a different class.

[Shadowscale]

No, not without multiclassing. You can benefit from Haste or similar effects, but you'll never have that last attack without a few levels in a different class.

I was thinking maybe the slayer, specifically Stygian Slayer would fit this concept?

[legomaster00156]

A Slayer could fit the concept of a thug, yes.

[grarrrg]

Hey I was just wondering how one would go about building a character that blends together stealthy thief with brutish thug, my idea was to be a sneak attack fighter specializing in stealth and two handed weapons like a greatsword. I know these concepts don't always go hand and hand so I was wondering what y'all all thought would work?

I'm fond of Skulking Slayer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc/skulking-slayer-rogue-half-orc) + Scout Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/scout) for (at least) 4 levels.
"At 3rd level, when a skulking slayer charges and makes a sneak attack with a two-handed weapon, she rolls d8s instead of d6s for her sneak attack damage."
"At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed."

EVERY Charge can be a Sneak Attack, and EVERY Sneak attack can deal d8's of sneak dice.

Find a way to get Pounce+more Sneak dice and you're set.

[Psyren]

I was thinking maybe the slayer, specifically Stygian Slayer would fit this concept?

I'm not getting a barbarian vibe from that archetype at all. The magical abilities it gets are very subtle, and on top of that, you can't use most of them (the SLAs or the spell completion items) while raging.

[Stewzors]

I'm useless at optimization etc, but the flavour of the fighter archetype "Cad" seems like it might fit if you wanted to open up more options...

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/cad

[Serafina]

Well, there's little reason not to combine sneak attack with a greatsword. It's not necessarily optimal compared to two-weapon fighting - but on the other hand, you're saving on feats, which can be nice.


So first, you could just play a Rogue, Slayer, or other class with Sneak Attack, build for Strength and Constitution and just go to town with that.
The Slayer in particular works well with a D10 HD and full BAB.


Alternatively, you could just go with a Barbarian, Bloodrager, or similar class and throw in Stealth and some source of sneak attack.
I think the Shadow (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager/bloodrager-bloodlines/paizo---bloodrager-bloodlines/shadow) Bloodrager works well for that, and you can always swap out unwanted powers for two Rage powers.
An Id-Rage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager/archetypes/paizo---bloodrager-archetypes/id-rager)r with the Despair of Fear focus can also get Skill Focus (Stealth), while Hatred gets some Sneak Attack - though that archetype has some problems (you basically have to get a slam attack from somewhere, which is hard).
To actually get sneak attack with that, there's some methods:
- Rogue VMC gives you some slow progression at the cost of feats, but the 15th- and 19th-level Uncanny Dodge will most likely be useless.
- dip into a class with Sneak Attack, then just take the Accomplished Sneak Attacker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/accomplished-sneak-attacker) feat. This obviously costs you a level, but you get more sneak attack per feat this way (albeit no Evasion and Trapfinding, though that's easy with say, a Rogue Dip).


Lastly, I'd like to recommend the Vigilante (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/vigilante).
First, remember it's possible to just ignore the whole "Dual Identity" class feature - you could just be in your "social identity" all the time, and use your Vigilante talents just fine.
Second, the Stalker-specializations damage on your first hit is actually higher (d8) than a normal sneak attack (d6).
Third, the Vigilante has access to a in my opinion rather nice "demoralize enemies by being brutal in combat" build, which go very well with a "sneaky brute":
- Twisting Fear together with Violent Display (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Violent%20Display) allows a good amount of splash-damage against surrounding enemies when you sneak-attack someone.
- Frightening Appearance together with Disheartening Display (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Disheartening%20Display) allows you to step out of stealth and hit an enemy so brutally that it can frighten or even panic them and surrounding enemies.


As a general note:
You might want the Onslaught (http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Onslaught)-feat, which is basically made for "deliver sneak attack with power attack".

[Pugwampy]

I think the Barbarian would only score from stealth . A minimum rogue dip is more then enough. I think equal thief / barb levels would hurt the attack bonus and hitpoints too much .
Its a great idea. Extra lil backstab damage on a greatsword would be nice .


I always thought Conan was a Rogue / Barbarian multiclass

[CharonsHelper]

Neither gets rage - but either a Slayer or a Snakebite Striker (Brawler archetype) could fit the bill of a sneaky thug.

If you want to add Rage - just take the Barbarian VMC.

[Shadowscale]

I'm fond of Skulking Slayer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/half-orc/skulking-slayer-rogue-half-orc) + Scout Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue-archetypes/scout) for (at least) 4 levels.
"At 3rd level, when a skulking slayer charges and makes a sneak attack with a two-handed weapon, she rolls d8s instead of d6s for her sneak attack damage."
"At 4th level, whenever a scout makes a charge, her attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target were flat-footed."

EVERY Charge can be a Sneak Attack, and EVERY Sneak attack can deal d8's of sneak dice.

Find a way to get Pounce+more Sneak dice and you're set.

This build show promise, what is standard for pounce in pathfinder? All the rest of the levels of like to combine with more stealth related abilities to really be that unseen melee death maybe more slayer levels would be the key? I hear good things about that red mantis prc as well though