Arcane Trickster help

[danielxcutter]

I'm trying to make a OotS-style comic, and one of the characters will be an Arcane Trickster. Any good advice? Please try to avoid overlapping with this guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240) or the spoiler box below, and be as creative as you like. Just don't suggest Spellthief, Unseen Seer or Spellwarp Sniper, as I've decided to avoid using them for this character.



*Current plan: Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster X

*Spells

-Whirling Blade: I believe you can use it to Sneak Attack.

-Thunderlance: You can use Sneak Attack with it, the reach is nice, and the text implies that you can control the length so that you can attack adjacent targets.

-Arcane Maul: Inferior to Thunderlance, but an interesting possiblity.

-Seeking Ray: Best if used by a Spellwarp Sniper, but they're not the only ones who can Sneak Attack with rays...

*Feats

-Invisible Spell: I have no idea why it's not in the guide above, but it seems very useful.

-Weapon Finesse: It applies to most weapons Rogues can use, as well as touch attacks.

*Skill Tricks

-False Theurgy: Bluff and Spellcraft are class skills for Arcane Trickster.

-Acrobatic Backstab: Rendering your target flat-footed is never going to go out of fashion.

[Troacctid]

There are many ways to get the 2d6 sneak attack requirement without losing the full 3 caster levels. Basically, pick two:


Rogue
Spellthief (already ruled out)
Ninja (sudden strike counts as sneak attack for prerequisites)
Fighter (sneak attack variant—combines well with the Hit and Run variant from DrU)
Psychic Rogue
Assassin
Avenger
Binder + Improved Binding (for Malphas—also enables Anima Mage if you have a metamagic feat)
Swordsage (Assassin's Stance)

For spells, you want multiple hits, but not multiple hits at the same time. Cloud of knives is great. Scorching ray, not so much, because you only deal sneak attack damage on the first ray. Whirling blade is similarly problematic if you rule it as multiple attacks; if it's just one attack, then it's fine. Arcane spellsurge will be gas once you get to a high enough level.

I really enjoy using Acidic Splatter as a sneak attack delivery system—it scales with level, ignores spell resistance, has unlimited uses, and doesn't require any verbal or somatic components. If you're willing to dedicate spell slots to it, it can be a fine boost to your stamina.

You're going to have to decide which school to specialize in. Illusion probably makes a lot of flavor sense, but it depends what kind of personality you want to give your character. Any specialist is fine IMO, as is Domain Wizard, but I would not go generalist because picking a specialty is a great way to add personality to a character.

[danielxcutter]

There are many ways to get the 2d6 sneak attack requirement without losing the full 3 caster levels. Basically, pick two:


Rogue
Spellthief (already ruled out)
Ninja (sudden strike counts as sneak attack for prerequisites)
Fighter (sneak attack variant—combines well with the Hit and Run variant from DrU)
Psychic Rogue
Assassin
Avenger
Binder + Improved Binding (for Malphas—also enables Anima Mage if you have a metamagic feat)
Swordsage (Assassin's Stance)

For spells, you want multiple hits, but not multiple hits at the same time. Cloud of knives is great. Scorching ray, not so much, because you only deal sneak attack damage on the first ray. Whirling blade is similarly problematic if you rule it as multiple attacks; if it's just one attack, then it's fine. Arcane spellsurge will be gas once you get to a high enough level.

I really enjoy using Acidic Splatter as a sneak attack delivery system—it scales with level, ignores spell resistance, has unlimited uses, and doesn't require any verbal or somatic components. If you're willing to dedicate spell slots to it, it can be a fine boost to your stamina.

You're going to have to decide which school to specialize in. Illusion probably makes a lot of flavor sense, but it depends what kind of personality you want to give your character. Any specialist is fine IMO, as is Domain Wizard, but I would not go generalist because picking a specialty is a great way to add personality to a character.

Hmmm, I'd prefer not to dabble in other PrCs, psionics, binding, or ToB for this character, and I'm going to enforce the favored class rule, but the specialization point is valid. The problem that all schools have good spells that kinda suck to miss, but I'll figure out something. I'm not sure about using Acidic Splatter, but it's either that or Invisible Needle(both is a little overkill). Cloud of Knives is something that I was already planning on using, but I'll take your advice as confirmation that it's just that great.

[Troacctid]

Favored class is easy to solve. Lots of races have wizard as a favored class. Human, elf, or illumian. Bam. Illumian is especially nice since you can get early entry with Improved Sigil (Krau).

[danielxcutter]

Favored class is easy to solve. Lots of races have wizard as a favored class. Human, elf, or illumian. Bam. Illumian is especially nice since you can get early entry with Improved Sigil (Krau).

I was actually thinking of Halfling with the racial substitution levels, but that could be changed if it doesn't work.

[Troacctid]

Halflings have rogue as a favored class, so Rogue 1/Wizard 5 should work fine if you take the interpretation that the extra +1d6 damage from Ranged Sneak Attack counts as sneak attack damage for the purpose of prerequisites. Consider which variety of halfling you want to use; there are differences in power level between them (and the PH one is definitely not the strongest of them), but more importantly, it matters for flavor.

I don't actually like the Halfling Wizard levels very much, but you could take the 3rd level one if there's some off-class 1st level spell you really want for whatever reason.

[Darrin]

Race: Silverbrow Human
Stub: Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 10/Something 4

Take Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic) at first level. This gives you 2d6 sneak attack. It turns your sneak attack damage into [fire] damage, but you can switch it to something more interesting with Draconic Heritage... which is easier with Sorcerer, since you can swap your familiar for Draconic Heritage. Wizards can still do it, but it requires an additional feat: Dragontouched.

[Eldariel]

In spite of you preferring not to dabble in other PRCs, I do recommend Unseen Seer anyways - it's just such a good fit you'd think it was designed for this very purpose. Thus, I feel I should recommend you to reconsider and expound upon its virtues in spite you ruling it out. Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 2-5/Arcane Trickster -> just flows so darn naturally. Even Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 1 qualifies; it makes up for a Wizard-level and two Rogue-levels in the qualifications and gives you good skills and some other cool stuff. Compared to pure Core entry it allows entering two levels early! Plus the extra Divination(s) from Advanced Learning can be put to great use on improving your Rogue/Wizard integration.

You can use Advanced Learning to either pick Hunter's Eye [PHBII] to temporarily turbocharge your Sneak Attack ability if you want to focus on that, or either Divine Insight [SC] or Guidance of the Avatar (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) to focus on the skill half (Divine Insight has a smaller bonus but lasts all day and can be used on command so it works for unexpected circumstances while Guidance of the Avatar is the ultimate buff for making that one check you absolutely must make). The problem with taking more than 2 levels is that you end up with Divination Spell Power which without Practiced Spellcaster hurts your Wizard caster level for other stuff, but if you do have Practiced Spellcaster it's pure plus. And you get the second damage bonus on level 4, second Advanced Learning on 5.


Also, far as race goes, I always think of Whisper Gnomes [Races of Stone] when I think of a Rogue/Wizard. The race is small, fast (normal 30' as a small race), naturally stealthy, has Rogue has the favoured class, and the important part: Spell-Like Silence once per day. That's a spell Rogue/Wizards don't normally get and thus adds a small but very convenient extra tool (once per day) to the arsenal.

Since you want to focus on the Arcane Trickster-half, I'd go:
Whisper Gnome Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 2/Arcane Trickster ->

You could even cut down to 1 Unseen Seer level but that feels less elegant and gives up the skill boosting or sneak attack boosting spell from Advanced Learning.

If you really, really can't stomach the idea no matter what, I'd just repeat Darrin's idea so not gonna bother.

[danielxcutter]

Race: Silverbrow Human
Stub: Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 10/Something 4

Take Dragonfire Strike (Dragon Magic) at first level. This gives you 2d6 sneak attack. It turns your sneak attack damage into [fire] damage, but you can switch it to something more interesting with Draconic Heritage... which is easier with Sorcerer, since you can swap your familiar for Draconic Heritage. Wizards can still do it, but it requires an additional feat: Dragontouched.

I sense potential in this build, although maybe not for this character. There's a way for Kobolds to do that too, isn't there?

[Eldariel]

I sense potential in this build, although maybe not for this character. There's a way for Kobolds to do that too, isn't there?

Kobolds are Dragonblooded so they qualify just the same; they'll just miss out on a feat.

[Gruftzwerg]

Hi danielxcutter,
I'll try to pull out the warlock card again^^. The link in your post, doesn't give much credit to warlocks, but it seems just because he doesn't know enough about warlocks.

You can apply sneak attacks to Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Glaive & Eldritch Claws. Further the warlock has some other goodies compared to wizard:
- d6 Hp
- DR/cold iron
- "at will" attacks. you will never run out of attacks.
- at higher level = more attacks/round with Eldritch Glaive than a Wizard with Quick Spell can attack per round.
- can get Invisibility (24h) (at will: vanish and escape as you like in most fights, sneak everywhere)
- 24h fly invocation available
- Fast Healing ability
- Arcane Trickster suggest that you like to steal magic stuff. and when you got it, you wanna use it. so you need UMD. and warlock can take 10 with UMD.

Imagine a Halfling hiding in the bush sneaking up behind his foe and pulling out his big lasersw... eerrr Eldritch Glaive ;)


If you go Human, you could add 2lvls of Chameleon for the floating feat. Gives the build versatility and makes you more of a "Jack of all trades".

PS: If you should like the lasersword idea, than your warlock needs a Rod of Eldritch Power (Eldritch Glaive). Now you have a lasersword and only true Jedi (warlocks) may/can use it. May the force be with you^^

[danielxcutter]

Kobolds are Dragonblooded so they qualify just the same; they'll just miss out on a feat.

Wait, do you mean normal Kobolds or the infamous Dragonwrought ones?

[Gruftzwerg]

Wait, do you mean normal Kobolds or the infamous Dragonwrought ones?

Kobold = Humanoid (dragonblooded)
Dragonwrought Kobold = (true) Dragon

edit: source is Races of the Dragon IIRC.

[Darrin]

Kobolds are Dragonblooded so they qualify just the same; they'll just miss out on a feat.

Kobold wizards can take Dragonfire Strike, yes, but not Draconic Heritage. They need at least one sorcerer level, or Dragontouched.


Wait, do you mean normal Kobolds or the infamous Dragonwrought ones?

Normal kobolds already have the dragonblood subtype by default. Dragonwrought changes their type to "Dragon" and they lose the dragonblood subtype, although they still count as dragonblooded due to their type rather than their subtype.

The other advantage of kobold sorcerers is they can take the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage, which gives them +1 Sorcerer level. This helps offset the Rogue dip, although their spell progression is still one level behind wizards.

[danielxcutter]

Kobold = Humanoid (dragonblooded)
Dragonwrought Kobold = (true) Dragon

edit: source is Races of the Dragon IIRC.

You know, I think that's the first post of yours I've seen that wasn't "try using Warlock". :smallbiggrin:

No, but seriously, it's getting a little old. If I'm actually asking for Warlock advice then fire away, but otherwise refrain from that please.

[danielxcutter]

-snip-

Then I presume a Kobold Rogue 1/Sorcerer 5/Unseen Seer X build is could be done? It would be nice for a foil character or something.

Wait, isn't there already a halfling-kobold foil thing in OotS? Might have to flesh their relationship out or something. :smallamused:

[Stealth Marmot]

I am going to assume that your character likely has a good dexterity as well as a good intelligence.

I've voiced my displeasure with the pre-requisites of Arcane Trickster and the inherent problems it has in character balance, but since you don't want to go down the PrC or non-core classes, I hope you don't mind me mentioning the Praticed Spellcaster feat so that their caster level at least equals their hit die.

It's worth noting however that Rich made a point of never actually statting his characters out fully. That loses flexibility in the narrative. But spells and some feats may come up so I suggest the following:

Silent Spell: The guy is a sneakthief and will need to be quiet.

Scorching Ray: Ranged touch, can be used while invisible to get sneak attack from a range, no need for weapon finesse.

Orb Spells: Again, ranged touch. Often can bypass spell resistance and again don't need weapon finesse.

In fact, in general rays and ranged attacks would be useful as the guy would want to avoid melee.

Invisibility: Who needs ranks in hide?

Knock: Who needs lockpicks?

Disguise Self: Who needs ranks in disguise?

Grease: I won't tell you what he does with this spell but the chance for comedy and awesomeness is infinite with well placed lubricant.

Web: A sometimes versatile spell that can be helpful.

Obscuring mist: Getaway in a spell.

Blink: Congratulations, you now have sneak attack on every attack you make for 1/round per level, all the while evading around 50% of attacks AND spells because you are ethereal, on top of their normal miss chance. Granted you Do have a 20% failure chance yourself, but the benefits far outweigh that drawback.

Haste: If you use a hand crossbow, or flasks or a melee weapon, it means an extra attack PLUS it affects the whole party.

Alchemists fire/Acid: Ranged touch attacks that don't cost a spell slot and do damage, since it is a ranged touch you get sneak attack damage if invisible or blinking. d6 turns into 4d6 (see below). Great for backup when you run out of spells or utilizing Haste so you get an extra attack.

An Arcane trickster won't have the real ability or inclination to use big boomer spells like Fireball usually, but he might carry a scroll of it just for the sake of luring a bunch of people around him so he can detonate it point blank and somehow evade it. The save DCs on a scroll are low (DC 14 for fireball) and people who save still take half damage...unless they have evasion like him.

But in general, spells with saves don't utilize attack rolls, and as suck no sneak attack possible. The lackluster BAB of an Arcane Trickster can easily be offset by using ranged touch or other touch attacks while invisible or using blink, since you are literally hitting their flat footed touch AC. The sneak attack of just a level 2 arcane trickster combined with the rogue levels is 3d6, so even a little cantrip orb of acid goes from 1d3 to 1d3+3d6, from an average 2 damage to 12.5.

[Eldariel]

Then I presume a Kobold Rogue 1/Sorcerer 5/Unseen Seer X build is could be done? It would be nice for a foil character or something.

You might've typoed the Unseen Seer; you can do Rogue 1/Sorcerer 4/Unseen Seer just fine. But yes, thanks to the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) you can get 3rd level spells with only 5 Sorcerer-levels so Rogue 1/Sorcerer 5/Arcane Trickster -> also works.