Spheres of Power advice: power from pain concept advice?

[DigitalCielo]

Hello Playground!
I'll be staring a new evil campaign, and Spheres of Power is allowed, taking the place of normal magic! I'm super excited to try it out, but I need some help and ideas to mechanically nail the concept.

I'm planning to play a good old cheery combat Sadomasochist (a follower of Zon-Kuthon, for who is familiar with the Golarion setting), even if I'm not sure what role I want him/her to cover: the Death sphere looks cool, but I'd also wouldn't mind to play a strong support caster running for the "Creepier Team Medic/Mom/Dad of the year".

I've looked over the SoP rules, and the most closely related thing I found was the Draining Casting drawback, but I wasn't really sure of how rough that would be in actual play, and it seems something more tailored for casting once in a while instead of something for gishes or full-caster: because it's the first time I use Sop I kinda want to, you know, actually use talents. :P

I had thought of putting together something similar to an Oradin, but I didn't find abilities like Life Link in Spheres. It's possible that I haven't looked hard enough. The Thaumaturge has that kinda Wilder-ish mechanic to overcharge spells, but I don't like how limited (like a Wilder :P) its numbers of talents are.

As far as allowed material, it's all Paizo (Leadership is banned, I think) plus SoP, and using the Background Skills and Automatic Bonus progression from Pathfinder Unchained.
Stats were semi-rolled, and they are 8/18/14/14/13/11, before any racial bonus obviously and to be allocated in any order I want.

Thanks for the help!

[Mehangel]

I've looked over the SoP rules, and the most closely related thing I found was the Draining Casting drawback, but I wasn't really sure of how rough that would be in actual play, and it seems something more tailored for casting once in a while instead of something for gishes or full-caster: because it's the first time I use Sop I kinda want to, you know, actually use talents. :P

In regards to the Draining Casting drawback, it is fine aslong as you aren't casting several times a day or per encounter. It is best to focus on long duration abilities such as (Aegis) from the Protection sphere, (Sense) from the Divination sphere, Summons from the Conjuration sphere, etc. Spheres with shorter duration abilities such as Destruction will end up doing more harm than good the more often you use it.



I had thought of putting together something similar to an Oradin, but I didn't find abilities like Life Link in Spheres. It's possible that I haven't looked hard enough. The Thaumaturge has that kinda Wilder-ish mechanic to overcharge spells, but I don't like how limited (like a Wilder :P) its numbers of talents are.

If you want a Life-Link talent, what you are looking for is Community (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/protection#toc7) (which is probably closest). Although, you might also be interested in the Healing Aegis (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/protection#toc12) and Status (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/protection#toc23) talents from the Protection sphere aswell.

[legomaster00156]

You can also ask your GM about spellcrafting together the above-mentioned Protection sphere abilities and Life sphere abilities. For example, maybe creating an Aegis that gives Fast Healing 1.

[Vaktaeru]

If you intend on spellcasting being your go-to action in combat, I actually just wouldn't recommend taking draining casting at all - having played spheres of power a bit myself now, the damage adds up faster than you realize, especially when it's easy to use spheres all day long, what with them being at-will. I would, however, recommend painful magic, as it's less difficult to deal with, especially since it's not that hard to become immune to the sickened condition, and the detriments only last for one round. It's also literally sadomasochism - your magic hurts you to use, but it hurts your victim far, far more.

As far as better embracing the sadomasochism aspect, I would look at different types of pain and pick one that your character really likes. Does he prefer wild surges of pain and power, or slow, creeping pain such as dying from cold in a storm? Would he rather rip the flesh from your bones or burn you to death? Having a cleric chassis lets you have these options if you go thaumaturge.

If you're concerned about how many talents you get, remember that sphere-specific drawbacks are your friend. Want your character to be able to go into overdrive at a moment's notice, but don't really care about buffing your party? Take drawbacks that limit your sphere usage to only yourself, such as the lycanthropic (alteration) drawback. Feel like you're tanky enough to walk up and hit things with a sword? Take the range limiting drawbacks. Each drawback you take gives you a bonus talent, so you can easily start at level 1 with 7 or 8 talents instead of just 3(I've got an incanter who uses drawbacks heavily, and she's got something like 25 talents at level 7, without spending any feats on it). If you're still concerned about how many talents you get with thaumaturge, try and work your build so you can spend a couple feats on extra magic talent, or take a couple levels of incanter somewhere along the way (it'll be nice to have that specialization power, too).

By the way, unless you plan on using a number of spheres that require saves (like mind sphere, telekinesis sphere, or some of the ghost strikes from death), I wouldn't worry about boosting your casting modifier too much, letting you focus on physicals if you want to be a little more smashy with your magic.

[stack]

Even destruction can work with draining casting if you have enough levels to energy sphere as your go- to each fight. The fortified casting boon, toughness, and HP favored class bonuses are also good ideas.

[DigitalCielo]

Thanks everyone for the responses!

Vaktaeru's post in particular sold me on the Thaumaturge :smallbiggrin: Thinking about it, the Devourer archetype looks neat and cool for the theme.
How would focusing on Destruction, with a sprinkle of the Death for debuff and life for keeping people alive work? Would a Magus dip work, to allow me to stab, blast, and get crits for the devourer ability?

Regarding sphere drawbacks, Necromantic Limit to just use the Vampiric Touch looks workable, but what are some good ones for Destruction or Life?

[stack]

So, devourerer - definitely loves melee. A magus dip is potent here since you can get martial weapons and spell combat and spell strike. Spell combat to buff as you fight (watch the concentration checks) is nice on its own and spell strike negates the need for a couple talents (energy blade and whatever the death one is). Scimitar or rapier and dex-based works nicely.

As an alternative, stay straight thaumaturge and take half orc to get falchions, sticking with strength, using alteration to boost size for strength and reach (hurts a dex build, awesome on strength). This approach is hurting for AC though. If using ghost strike and destruction via their spell-strike like talents you can mitigate the need for the magus dip. Half-orcs also qualify for the human FCB, which is handy on a devourer since you will be trying to negate your backlash as often as possible anyhow. The improved energy blade feat lets you still full-attack while using energy blade on one of the attacks.

Either one actually enjoys a bit of nature for metal geomancing for improved reach and crits with the right talents.

Energy focus can work on destruction is you aren't concerned about versatility or at early levels. I would want to have shape options as you level though, tossing up a wall at the start of combat can be pretty handy even if you focus on melee.

General advise on a melee thaumaturge is to be selfish. Your talents are precious, so drawbacks that focus on you are gold. A little protection for all-day aegis will be nice, using drawbacks like limited protection and protected soul to only have a self-only aegis, no wards, (if you can't get buffs form the party) to buff your defenses or alteration with lycanthropic to boost size or add a utility form (elemental transformation).

[Vaktaeru]

Regarding sphere drawbacks, Necromantic Limit to just use the Vampiric Touch looks workable, but what are some good ones for Destruction or Life?

If you like being in melee, destructive touch is a fine drawback for destruction, especially when you combine it with the one that lets you use destructive blast as part of a melee attack (I forget what it's called, though). Energy focus also isn't bad if you pick an energy type you can reasonably expect to work against most of the enemies in your campaign (I default to electricity, unless I know demons are involved, in which case I like acid). Shape focus is another good one if you want to go melee, since you can still use cone and line blasts that way. Regardless, if you do pick energy focus, I would recommend grabbing the penetrating blast advanced talent at level 5 so you can bypass resistances, and eventually immunity at caster level 20. Also, don't forget that like any other touch spell, if you're doing a melee destructive blast you can cast it and hold the charge on your hand for as long as you want.

Life is a tough one. If you just plan on healing between combats, or don't mind spending the spell points for it, Limited Restoration is a decent drawback but you lose the invigorate ability from it - not that bad, but temporary HP can be nice in a pinch. If you plan on being selfish with your healing (entirely reasonable for an evil character), you can take the Regenerate drawback. Hell, you can take both if you want, but it really depends on who you want your character to be healing, and what form you want that healing to take.

[DigitalCielo]

Thanks for the help! I think I have enough information to work this out by myself now, but maybe I'll post the full build when I'm done.

Thanks again!