Useful Gems from the 3.0 Supplements?

[Palanan]

I've always had a sneaking fondness for the old 3.0 softcovers, especially Masters of the Wild. I really liked the concept of infusions, and I always wanted to try out the Blindsight feat. And there are some obscure PrCs like Bane of Infidels which can be fun for niche concepts.

So, what are your favorite forgotten gems from the 3.0 supplements? I'm especially looking for obscure feats, spells, PrCs, etc. which were never reprinted or updated, but which are still useful in one way or another.

[Thurbane]

The Hexer PrC, without a doubt.

[thorr-kan]

Hexer. The adept's upgrade.

[DrMotives]

Awaken slime, awaken magical beast, and if beasts still existed in 3.5, awaken beast would be nice too. Also, why was never a non-homebrew awaken vermin spell?

[Jack_Simth]

I've always had a sneaking fondness for the old 3.0 softcovers, especially Masters of the Wild. I really liked the concept of infusions, and I always wanted to try out the Blindsight feat. And there are some obscure PrCs like Bane of Infidels which can be fun for niche concepts.

So, what are your favorite forgotten gems from the 3.0 supplements? I'm especially looking for obscure feats, spells, PrCs, etc. which were never reprinted or updated, but which are still useful in one way or another.

Hide Life, Tome and Blood. It's a rather overpowered spell. Similar to lichhood (better in some ways, worse in others), but MUCH cheaper than a phylactory (as in, you probably only need to cast it once, and purchasing a scroll of the spell is less expensive than the materials for a phylactory), and doesn't require anything particularly evil to boot.

[Troacctid]

There are some neat spells and prestige classes in BoVD.


Hexer. The adept's upgrade.
And of course, even better on an actual cleric.

[Jack_Simth]

And of course, even better on an actual cleric.It's clearly intended for Adepts, though. It's somewhat tricky to qualify for it as a Cleric: One of the requirements is "Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell" - and that's not on the Cleric list. There's probably a domain with it somewhere, an Archivist can learn the spell from an Adept's scroll readily enough, and there's a few other ways to get Lightning Bolt on a Cleric... but it seems intended for Adepts.

[Troacctid]

It's clearly intended for Adepts, though. It's somewhat tricky to qualify for it as a Cleric: One of the requirements is "Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell" - and that's not on the Cleric list. There's probably a domain with it somewhere, an Archivist can learn the spell from an Adept's scroll readily enough, and there's a few other ways to get Lightning Bolt on a Cleric... but it seems intended for Adepts.
There's no domain, but the Arcane Disciple cleric variant gets to pick Sor/Wiz spells to add to their class spell list (in exchange for losing domains), so they can easily get in.

I mean, it lowers the value of the bonus spells somewhat if you're already getting them from the base class, but the rest of Hexer is still great.

[Endarire]

Tome of Blood has the beautiful chain contingency spell! Make that into a Contingent Item (Complete Arcane) or few or many and enjoy!

[Thurbane]

There's no domain, but the Arcane Disciple cleric variant gets to pick Sor/Wiz spells to add to their class spell list (in exchange for losing domains), so they can easily get in.

I mean, it lowers the value of the bonus spells somewhat if you're already getting them from the base class, but the rest of Hexer is still great.

Which Cleric variant is that? The only one I'm aware of doesn't add Evocation spells to your Cleric list?

P.S. Hexer is pretty great for Archivist.

[DrMotives]

The other base class that can enter Hexer with that requirement easily is the Shugenja, who I believe have lightning bolt on their "fire spells" list, meaning any Shugenja who isn't a water specialist can use it. Shugenja's main problem is their spell list doesn't work with their strict rules on how they pick their spells known unless you houserule some extra stuff onto all 4 of their elemental lists.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
It's clearly intended for Adepts, though.

Not least because the second paragraph mentions that most hexers started out as adepts. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
One of the requirements is "Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell" - and that's not on the Cleric list.

But it is on the druid list, and the wording of the spell progression doesn't rule out advancing druid casting. Knowledge (arcana) could be tricky, but that aside a druid/hexer might be fun.


Originally Posted by Troacctid
…the Arcane Disciple cleric variant gets to pick Sor/Wiz spells to add to their class spell list….


Originally Posted by Thurbane
Which Cleric variant is that?

It's from Dragon 311, p. 49. Seems not to be mentioned much in the Playground, at least not here lately.

[Kaje]

Lasher is pretty great. Officially it was rolled into Exotic Weapon Master, but I like lasher better.

[Troacctid]

The other base class that can enter Hexer with that requirement easily is the Shugenja, who I believe have lightning bolt on their "fire spells" list, meaning any Shugenja who isn't a water specialist can use it. Shugenja's main problem is their spell list doesn't work with their strict rules on how they pick their spells known unless you houserule some extra stuff onto all 4 of their elemental lists.

Favored Souls of Tiamat or Bahamut can also do it using their Dragon Magic ACF, albeit a bit late.

[Ashtagon]

I've always really liked the flavour of the candle caster prestige class.

[Tvtyrant]

Swiftblade and thrall of jubilex are both really good.

[DrMotives]

But it is on the druid list, and the wording of the spell progression doesn't rule out advancing druid casting. Knowledge (arcana) could be tricky, but that aside a druid/hexer might be fun.


It's not on the druid list. Call Lightning is, but not Lightning Bolt. There might be ways to get it onto a druid, people here know lots I don't, but Adept, Shugenja, & Archivist are the only ones for base classes that can just get Lightning Bolt on their divine caster list.

[thethird]

As an artificer the literal gems from magic of faerun.

[thorr-kan]

I've always really liked the flavour of the candle caster prestige class.
I had forgotten that one. How has I forgotten that one. I can't believe it never got a 3.5 update!

[thorr-kan]

Lasher is pretty great. Officially it was rolled into Exotic Weapon Master, but I like lasher better.
Right! I was thinking Master of Whips and wondering why I could not find it.

Whip-dagger for the WIN!

[Dromuthra]

The "Command" property is a +2 armor enhancement for a +4 morale bonus to Charisma from Defenders of the Faith. Don't leave home without it!

[KillingAScarab]

So, what are your favorite forgotten gems from the 3.0 supplements? I'm especially looking for obscure feats, spells, PrCs, etc. which were never reprinted or updated, but which are still useful in one way or another.Also from Masters of the Wild, you have the forsaker prestige class which would be good in a low magic campaign (you are jealous of everyone with magic items and break their toys), and the opposable weapon special ability which I noticed would go great with bear warrior.

Song and Silence had a lot of flavor to it. I mean, c'mon, dread pirate. But fang of Lloth was such a weird and wonderful transformational prestige class. There was an Iron Chef Optimization thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412530-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVIII) for it.

[ShurikVch]

Prestige Classes
Knight of the Middle Circle (Defenders Of the Faith)
Peerless Archer (Silver Marches) - one of the best archery-focused PrCs
Windrider (Masters of the Wild) - give progression to your mount; "mount" - not just as class feature. Whatever you ride on - Animal Companion, Cohort, Familiar, or even any cheaply-bought creature - will be progressed

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Prestige Classes
Knight of the Middle Circle (Defenders Of the Faith)
Peerless Archer (Silver Marches) - one of the best archery-focused PrCs
Windrider (Masters of the Wild) - give progression to your mount; "mount" - not just as class feature. Whatever you ride on - Animal Companion, Cohort, Familiar, or even any cheaply-bought creature - will be progressedHow do the bonus hit dice work on a psicrystal if you use it as your mount for windrider? I can only assume that the psicrystal is treated as if its master is up to 8 levels higher, but it doesn't gain anything that's overridden by its entry, such as saving throws and hit points. It does gain HD-based feats, though, I would think, and counts as a higher HD creature for the purposes of spells and such.

[Xethik]

Fanfare from Song and Silence is fantastic if you want books thrown at you.

Bard 6, standard action cast 100 ft cone. 1d4 rounds of stun and twice that defeaned. Fort negates the 4d6 damage, but not the stun. It is SR: Yes, but otherwise a killer spell for Sublime Chords.

[ShurikVch]

How do the bonus hit dice work on a psicrystal if you use it as your mount for windrider? I can only assume that the psicrystal is treated as if its master is up to 8 levels higher, but it doesn't gain anything that's overridden by its entry, such as saving throws and hit points. It does gain HD-based feats, though, I would think, and counts as a higher HD creature for the purposes of spells and such.By the RAW, rider should be one size smaller than the mount.
Psicrystal is Diminutive Construct
Psionic Hairy Spider? :smallamused:

[Cosi]

Sword and Fist has a feat called "Multitasking". It requires three feats (Multiattack, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Two-Weapon Fighting), but its benefit is absolutely insane on a Druid. It gives you an extra partial (standard) action for each pair of arms you have after the first. If you're a Druid who spends their time Wild Shaped into an Octopus, that's three extra standard actions every round.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

By the RAW, rider should be one size smaller than the mount.
Psicrystal is Diminutive Construct
Psionic Hairy Spider? :smallamused:Metamorphosis is a thing. Beyond that, a psychoactive skin of proteus is a thing. Or one of those necklaces from the Arms & Equipment Guide that can polymorph you into a single alternate form, for cheap. Very useful on a psicrystal.

[Troacctid]

Sword and Fist has a feat called "Multitasking". It requires three feats (Multiattack, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Two-Weapon Fighting), but its benefit is absolutely insane on a Druid. It gives you an extra partial (standard) action for each pair of arms you have after the first. If you're a Druid who spends their time Wild Shaped into an Octopus, that's three extra standard actions every round.
Partial actions aren't quite the same as standard actions. Most effects that give you extra partial actions were updated to give you an extra attack during a full attack.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Partial actions aren't quite the same as standard actions. Most effects that give you extra partial actions were updated to give you an extra attack during a full attack.A partial action is defined as a full-round action without a move action.

A standard action is also a full-round action without a move action, and though it's not explicitly defined as that, that's exactly what it is.

There's literally no functional difference between the two.

[Ashtagon]

A partial action is defined as a full-round action without a move action.

A standard action is also a full-round action without a move action, and though it's not explicitly defined as that, that's exactly what it is.

There's literally no functional difference between the two.

Actually, the 3.0e rules defined a partial action as functionally the same as a standard action except that you can't use it to move.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Actually, the 3.0e rules defined a partial action as functionally the same as a standard action except that you can't use it to move.Except the SRD says thus:

Standard Action: A standard action allows a character to do something and move that character's indicated speed during a combat round. A character can move before or after performing the activity of the action. (Essentially a 3.5 full-round action. 3.5 standard actions are something else entirely.)

Partial Action: As a general rule, a character can do as much with a partial action as a character could with a standard action minus a move. Typically, a character may take a 5-foot step as part of a partial action. (So, basically a 3.5 standard action, except without the standard-as-move that 3.5 has. Buuuuuut...)

Then we have:

Move-Equivalent Action: Move-equivalent actions take the place of movement in a standard action or take the place of an entire partial action. The character can normally also take a 5 foot step. (So here we have the rules for exchanging an action [or partial action] for a move-equivalent action, which is the equivalent to movement, meaning that you should be able to, y'know, move.)

So you can basically exchange a 3.0 partial action for a 3.0 move equivalent action, both of which together make up a 3.0 standard action.

Which sounds exactly like 3.5, but with terms swapped: "So you can exchange a 3.5 standard action for a 3.5 move action, both of which together make up a 3.5 full-round action."

So yeah, you could exchange a partial for a move-equivalent (3.0), just like you can exchange a standard for a move (3.5). Meaning a partial action in 3.0 is basically a standard in 3.5 in all the ways that matter.

[Nifft]

So, what are your favorite forgotten gems from the 3.0 supplements? I'm especially looking for obscure feats, spells, PrCs, etc. which were never reprinted or updated, but which are still useful in one way or another.

The 3.0e Alienist wasn't updated, rather it was replaced with a pseudonatural imposter. (I'd count the 3.0e Alienst as an obscure gem.)

[Xethik]

The 3.0e Alienist wasn't updated, rather it was replaced with a pseudonatural imposter. (I'd count the 3.0e Alienst as an obscure gem.)

The 3.0 and 3.5 Alienist seem fairly similar to me. 3.5 seems to have less severe penalties for the Toughness bonus, but can't summon non-pseudonatural

[Coidzor]

I believe there were a number of interesting spells to check out in Master's of the Wild which were unupdated or were replaced with weaker versions under different names.

There's a very neat spell for polymorphing creatures permanently before access to PAO from the online supplemental stuff in the wizards' archives.

In Jowgen's recent thread about making planets, we touched upon some other spells from the archive, like linking the magnetic one to a hallow effect, which in general terms would try to disarm people with metal weapons once a turn as long as they're in an area for a long time.

[Nifft]

The 3.0 and 3.5 Alienist seem fairly similar to me. 3.5 seems to have less severe penalties for the Toughness bonus, but can't summon non-pseudonatural

The 3.0e Alienist can apply the Pseudonatural template to his whole summoning list.

The 3.5e Alienist loses access to most of his summoning list.

That is the major difference.

It's a big difference.

[daremetoidareyo]

By the RAW, rider should be one size smaller than the mount.
Psicrystal is Diminutive Construct
Psionic Hairy Spider? :smallamused:

1. Sparrow hengeyokai + psicrystal with hidden talent (expansion).

2. Tibbit in cat form + Psicrystal with hidden talent and psicrystal affinity + a diminutive chariot + chariot feats from sword and fist

[Kelb_Panthera]

I tend toward the big bag of mundane tricks for my preferred playstyle (casters played to capacity tend to either be easy mode or the only option and the latter can be trying in the long-haul) so I'mma go with healing salve from (I wanna say) Tome and Blood and the garrotes from song and silence.

PrC wise, the old version of exotic weapons master was great, "my primary weapon is an enchanted folding chair! :smallbiggrin:"

It's not paper-back but A&EG has the rules for vehicles and expanded rules for hirelings which can be quite useful and fun.

[KillingAScarab]

It's not paper-back but A&EG has the rules for vehicles and expanded rules for hirelings which can be quite useful and fun.Arms & Equipment Guide's vehicles also include things such the gnome submersible and the ornithopter. The air vehicles section even has that "Gift of Garl" bit of flavor text to it. These are obviously better in a no or low-magic campaign, which the book actually has about two pages which address that.

[Dromuthra]

So I just found a very interesting interaction between a couple of things and thought I'd post it here (pretty sure it works).

The Ghost Mantle from Dragon 311 (p.65) makes you Incorporeal, and gives you the Manifestation, Corrupt Touch, and Horrifying Appearance abilities. It also does 1 Con drain when you put it on and another every round until you die and become an evil ghost. Add in some method of immunity to Con drain (item of Sheltered Vitality for 60k, or Necropolitan Template, or Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest or Vitality Belt) + Open Greater Chakra (waist), and then the Ethereal Reaver from p.106 of Complete Psionic. Lets you sit in the ethereal plane immune to most attacks and fight normally with a sword without having to manifest at all.

[ShurikVch]

The 3.0 and 3.5 Alienist seem fairly similar to me. 3.5 seems to have less severe penalties for the Toughness bonus, but can't summon non-pseudonaturalSo true! So very true! :smallfrown:

In that case allow me to add in Animal Lord and (to the lesser extent) Nightsong Enforcer


The 3.0 and 3.5 Alienist seem fairly similar to me. 3.5 seems to have less severe penalties for the Toughness bonus, but can't summon non-pseudonatural3.5 Alienist is a summoning-oriented PrC which makes you bad at summoning, and also shoot dead your social life. It's worse than just pointless - it's stuff to actively avoid!
"Real 3.5 Alienist" is a Binder with Zceryll (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718)


Metamorphosis is a thing. Beyond that, a psychoactive skin of proteus is a thing.You know, it's kinda cool.
Psion-Egoist transforms into bug and ride it's one psicrystal...
I, personally, will allow it

HD issue is, probably the same as with riding your familiar

Note: RAW is very finicky about what can and can't count as a mount. Look the underlined part:

What's a Mount?
You can’t just hop on and ride any creature, even if you have the Ride skill for that creature type. A mount must have all the following characteristics.
• Be able and willing to carry its rider in a typical fashion. (A camel trained with the Handle Animal skill to bear a rider is able and willing. A tiger might be able but not willing. A giant might be willing but not truly able. An intelligent creature whose alignment differs significantly from yours is unlikely to be willing.)I prefer to don't think about it too hard :smallsmile:

Or one of those necklaces from the Arms & Equipment Guide that can polymorph you into a single alternate form, for cheap. Very useful on a psicrystal.Phylactery of Change wouldn't work - psicrystal isn't a living creature (but it may work on psion)


1. Sparrow hengeyokai + psicrystal with hidden talent (expansion).

2. Tibbit in cat form + Psicrystal with hidden talent and psicrystal affinity + a diminutive chariot + chariot feats from sword and fistAFAIK, change of form doesn't affect your weight; psicristal - even with Expansion - wouldn't be able to lift you

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Phylactery of Change wouldn't work - psicrystal isn't a living creature (but it may work on psion)A funny thing: metamorphosis changes one's race. So use metamorphosis on your psicrystal to turn it into a humanoid or giant, then infect your psicrystal with lycanthropy. Since your psicrystal now gets a Con score every time it changes to animal or hybrid form (and retains its lycanthropy even as a psicrystal), you now have a psicrystal that can turn into a dire wolf, or whatever, which then has a Con score. So either ride it in its animal form, or use a phylactery of change to go from animal/hybrid to whatever the phylactery uses (such as a 7-headed hydra).

Can you use polymorph/metamorphosis to become a hydra and then use the hybrid lycanthrope ability to become a hybrid hydra?

[ShurikVch]

A funny thing: metamorphosis changes one's race.No, it doesn't.
Metamorphosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metamorphosis.htm) can change your Type, but not Race.
The only way to change your Race is (AFAIK) Reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) spell.

So use metamorphosis on your psicrystal to turn it into a humanoid or giant, then infect your psicrystal with lycanthropy. Since your psicrystal now gets a Con score every time it changes to animal or hybrid form (and retains its lycanthropy even as a psicrystal), you now have a psicrystal that can turn into a dire wolf, or whatever, which then has a Con score.No, it wouldn't have Con score: unlike more vanilla Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm), lycanthropic variation doesn't replace physical ability scores outright, but instead gives modifiers equal to base animal scores minus 10 (or -11, if number is odd).
"Con -" plus whatever is still a "Con -"

So either ride it in its animal form, or use a phylactery of change to go from animal/hybrid to whatever the phylactery uses (such as a 7-headed hydra).PoC, obviously, still wouldn't work
Alternate Form may or may not work - some people (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17239248&postcount=4) are saying lycanthrope can't change form if you're of improper size. In Pf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lycanthrope) it's RAW (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Change-Shape-Su-); in 3.0/3.5 - I don't know (believe me, I'm asked - nobody answered)

Also, there will be issue of alignment change: do you really need Chaotic Evil psicrystal?


Can you use polymorph/metamorphosis to become a hydra and then use the hybrid lycanthrope ability to become a hybrid hydra?Highly unlikely: it's hybrid form of base creature, and base creature isn't hydra, but "humanoid or giant"

[Xethik]

The 3.0e Alienist can apply the Pseudonatural template to his whole summoning list.

The 3.5e Alienist loses access to most of his summoning list.

That is the major difference.

It's a big difference.
Fair. I guess I was expecting something more egregious, like a major modification to spell focus.

[Nifft]

Fair. I guess I was expecting something more egregious, like a major modification to spell focus.

3e Alienist => among the best Summoners in the game.

3.5e Alienist => among the worst Summoners in the game.

That's much more significant than Spell Focus going from +2 to +1.

Taking feats as an example, it would be like if Spell Focus went from +2 to -2.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

No, it doesn't.
Metamorphosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metamorphosis.htm) can change your Type, but not Race.It also grants you the subtype, which does change your race -- especially in humanoids, which all have subtypes.


The only way to change your Race is (AFAIK) Reincarnate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm) spell.Or polymorph/metamorphosis/shapechange/etc.


No, it wouldn't have Con score: unlike more vanilla Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm), lycanthropic variation doesn't replace physical ability scores outright, but instead gives modifiers equal to base animal scores minus 10 (or -11, if number is odd).Huh. You're right. I believe I was thinking about wild shape, actually.


"Con -" plus whatever is still a "Con -"
PoC, obviously, still wouldn't work
Alternate Form may or may not work - some people (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17239248&postcount=4) are saying lycanthrope can't change form if you're of improper size. In Pf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lycanthrope) it's RAW (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Change-Shape-Su-); in 3.0/3.5 - I don't know (believe me, I'm asked - nobody answered)If all else fails, just turn your psicrystal into a Diminutive or Tiny humanoid, like a baby human, and get bitten by a wereferret or something. That way, you are the right size either way.


Also, there will be issue of alignment change: do you really need Chaotic Evil psicrystal?Overridden by the "same alignment as master" clause? Otherwise, there are many ways to change one's alignment. Plus, I do believe the reason why lycanthropes of different animals are the alignment they are is because of how people view those animals, not any qualities of the animals themselves, and I happen to view wolves as noble, amazing animals; I know they're not mindless killers, so my psicrystal should be just fine.


Highly unlikely: it's hybrid form of base creature, and base creature isn't hydra, but "humanoid or giant"It'd be fun to have a werehydrawolf, wouldn't it? I mean, bite of the wereX works just fine. I don't see why this shouldn't.

[ShurikVch]

It also grants you the subtype, which does change your race -- especially in humanoids, which all have subtypes.Yes and no.
Yes - it allow to change subtypes
No - "Subtype" and "Race" are two different things


Or polymorph/metamorphosis/shapechange/etc.No.
Please, re-check them.
Nowhere in their text said something about changing race
They are able to change form, but not race
Reincarnate, on the other hand, directly says:
First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race)



If all else fails, just turn your psicrystal into a Diminutive or Tiny humanoid, like a baby human, and get bitten by a wereferret or something. That way, you are the right size either way.Yes, it should work.
I'm suggesting to try Wereracoon - Str 12 at Tiny size is a rarity (Racoon is in Dragon #280)
Or, if you need flying shape, Chordevoc from Races of the Wild - Str 9
Now, we should select the race of the psionic - Tiny mount suggesting Diminutive rider (or Tiny rider - if Mighty Steed feat - from Dragonlance - is allowed)

[Jack_Simth]

Alternate Form may or may not work - some people (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17239248&postcount=4) are saying lycanthrope can't change form if you're of improper size. In Pf (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/lycanthrope) it's RAW (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Change-Shape-Su-); in 3.0/3.5 - I don't know (believe me, I'm asked - nobody answered)
Mind you, there's also a dysfunction related to that restriction in Pathfinder: A fair number of critters have listed forms that the rules say they can't take... some of them can't take ANY of their forms (particularly common of older dragons). As an example: A Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's Change Shape works as Polymorph for Animals or Humanoids. Polymorph references Alter Self (medium and small only) for humanoids and Beast Shape II (Tiny to Large only) for animals. A Great Wyrm gold is Colossal. None of it's options are within range.

[GilesTheCleric]

There's no domain

Thunder domain, Drag290 50, at SL 4. Of course, that's only if you're allowed to use 3.0 dragon content.