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Luccan
2016-11-29, 05:02 PM
This isn't about the most of the class so much as the clause in its code of conduct, bolded by me:


Additionally, a paladin of freedom’s code requires that he respect individual liberty, help those in need (provided they do not use the help for lawful or evil ends), and punish those who threaten or curtail personal liberty


Now, for a regular paladin, it says chaotic, rather than lawful. Which I can actually wrap my head around. You don't help a criminal escape the guard, even if they stole a loaf of bread from a wealthy merchant to feed their family. But the PofF is less clear, to me. Do you not help the guards catch the king's assassin? After all, having him arrested and sent to a trial would be lawful, at least according to the way 3.5 tends to intrepret law and chaos extremes. Thinking about it, I would say the PofF would be required to hunt the assassin down himself. Which made me think that most PofFs would essentially be vigilantes dishing out whatever they saw as justice. But that got me thinking of Paladins of Freedom being as bad as the Lawful Psycho people think regular Paladins are supposed to be, minus the part where they should follow the law, plus a part where they should actually oppose it if they feel it restricts personal freedoms. I feel like I must be tripping up somewhere, I'm just not sure where. Some explanation would be helpful.

TL;DR: What up with Paladins of Freedom?

legomaster00156
2016-11-29, 05:37 PM
Oh, boy, 3.5 Codes of Conduct! As with the regular Paladin, the usual interpretation is that Good/Evil > Law/Chaos. Letting the king's assassin go would be morally wrong (unless the king was a tyrant). Therefore, a paladin of freedom should, at the very least, not interfere with the capture of the assassin. They are not obligated to aid in capturing the assassin, though, as that is the duty of the lawful authorities, which a paladin of freedom definitely is not.
If there is reason to believe that the assassin may harm others, the paladin of freedom should absolutely do their best to protect the innocent, even if it requires working with lawful authorities.

Troacctid
2016-11-29, 05:39 PM
They're not required by their code of conduct to help in those situations, but they may choose to do so anyway. They are Good, after all.

Inevitability
2016-11-30, 10:30 AM
They're not required by their code of conduct to help in those situations, but they may choose to do so anyway. They are Good, after all.

This.

To illustrate:

"Sir, could you help me carry those groceries?" (Help will be used for non-Evil, non-Lawful ends; paladin must help)

"Sir, could you hand me that scroll of Summon Warforged Champion so I can cast it?" (Help will be used for Lawful ends but doesn't violate code otherwise; paladin can help)

"Sir, could you intimidate that writer in cooperating with the government?" (Help will be used for Lawful ends and violates code; paladin mustn't help)


Please bear in mind that when I say the paladin 'must' help, I don't mean a paladin should drop everything they're doing when someone requests the smallest of favors. It's just that the code as-written seems to force this behavior.