Should I shank the casters?

[Slayer Lord]

My players are sixth level, and after a month of delays, we are finally going to have our second session. We are playing Pathfinder, and the group consists of a cleric of Hades, a conjurer wizard, a hunter, possibly a monk (all human), and an orc brawler.

The party is infiltrating (read as: captured by) a group of slavers, and are presently trying to take over their ship. They are about to enter the galley, with the cook as a miniboss. Said cook is a two weapon fighter 3/rogue 3 tiefling armed with a pair of Keen kukris and a Wand of Greater Invisibilty. My question: Whom should I stab first?

Our game tend to be pretty story driven, so I try not to kill anyone unless thematically appropriate, or self-inflicted. But crits happen, and this boss is smart enough to try and open up with a sneak attack on enemy spellcasters first. I don't recall their HP off the top of my head, but I know the cleric has a Con penalty.

So, should I forgo logic and start in on the frontliner, or sneak attack the casters and hope for the best? Or maybe adjust his build slightly so he's less inclined to crit?

[PaucaTerrorem]

First off I would change his weapons. No cook is using kukris in his kitchen.:smallbiggrin:

Second, if you're really worried about it take the Keen off or switch to daggers and keep the Keen. Really depends on your level of concern and if you're okay with killing a character.

[Stealth Marmot]

My players are sixth level, and after a month of delays, we are finally going to have our second session. We are playing Pathfinder, and the group consists of a cleric of Hades, a conjurer wizard, a hunter, possibly a monk (all human), and an orc brawler.

The party is infiltrating (read as: captured by) a group of slavers, and are presently trying to take over their ship. They are about to enter the galley, with the cook as a miniboss. Said cook is a two weapon fighter 3/rogue 3 tiefling armed with a pair of Keen kukris and a Wand of Greater Invisibilty. My question: Whom should I stab first?

Our game tend to be pretty story driven, so I try not to kill anyone unless thematically appropriate, or self-inflicted. But crits happen, and this boss is smart enough to try and open up with a sneak attack on enemy spellcasters first. I don't recall their HP off the top of my head, but I know the cleric has a Con penalty.

So, should I forgo logic and start in on the frontliner, or sneak attack the casters and hope for the best? Or maybe adjust his build slightly so he's less inclined to crit?

If the guy is clever, he would have the casters hit first.

He has a wand of greater invisibility? Did you check the price point on that puppy? Because it is 24,000 gp, which is 8000 more than the wealth per level suggested for your party members. Plus he has twin kukris that rate over 8,000 GP each. That's 40,000 gold pieces given to a character who is the same level as the party. You are WAY overgearing your NPC. Plus he is getting access to 4th level spells while the party only has easy access to third level.

A wand of Greater Invisibility in the hands of a rogue who can use it fairly consistently is a potential TPK for the party, and if the party wins it will be a way for the party to end up overpowered for several levels. Even a SCROLL of that spell would be a potential loss of more than one character in the fray.

The wealth per level guidelines of Pathfinder have levels for NPCs as well, seen here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement Assuming he would be a HEROIC NPC, which is not a stretch, they recommend an NPC of his level to have 4,650 gp worth of gear.

Give him a POTION of invisibility, +1 kukris, replace one of the feats with Improved Critical instead, and he could probably attack the spellcaster with a double attack (two weapon fighting) from invisibility without killing them, since it would only mean 1 round of sneak attack and theres not much chance of BOTH attacks critting. It would be a NASTY opener, but if your party is smart they can route him and he won't be that much of a problem. Total damage would end up around...2d4+4d6+2+(strx1.5) if neither crit (a distinct possibility). That's an average of 24 damage if the guy has a 14 strength and around 30 if one crits. At 6th level, I'm pretty sure your wizard could eat 30 damage and PROBABLY not die (though may get knocked to negative). And that assumes that he goes for the wizard. You might want to play it by ear and have the crew's position while exploring the cook's area decide who gets the opening chop.

Potion plus kukris is 4,416 gp, add in some armor and some carried cash and he is almost perfectly appropriate wealth per level.

Edit; REMEMBER sneak attack is not multiplied in a crit. This is important and could mean the difference of life and death for a player.

[Keltest]

So, I have a question. Why is the cook just waiting, fully armed and possibly invisible, for the party to come to them? If they know the ship is being contested, they would almost certainly have left the galley to go help/report to the captain/get reinforcements/arm themselves better. That they're still there suggests this is a trap (by themselves, for some reason), in which case they would wait for the best opportunity to eliminate anybody they perceive as vulnerable, whether that is the tank or the wizard

If they don't know whats going on, they would attack whoever gets in their face first, because doing otherwise is rather silly.

[Zanos]

It depends on how the group plays, but generally walking into a room and dying in the surprise round isn't a great feeling.

[Crake]

If the guy is clever, he would have the casters hit first.

He has a wand of greater invisibility? Did you check the price point on that puppy? Because it is 24,000 gp, which is 8000 more than the wealth per level suggested for your party members. Plus he has twin kukris that rate over 8,000 GP each. That's 40,000 gold pieces given to a character who is the same level as the party. You are WAY overgearing your NPC. Plus he is getting access to 4th level spells while the party only has easy access to third level.

Presumably it is partially charged?

I would have suggested dust of disappearance, but that stuff is 3.5k a pop, way over this NPC's expected price range for consumables. A potion of greater invis (instead of regular invis) is still 1,400gp, but if you class that under "protection" in his gear (being invisible is protective, right?), it kinda fits. It makes sense too, since why would a cook have armor? Still achieves the effect you want, without the nonsense.

[denthor]

So, I have a question. Why is the cook just waiting, fully armed and possibly invisible, for the party to come to them? If they know the ship is being contested, they would almost certainly have left the galley to go help/report to the captain/get reinforcements/arm themselves better. That they're still there suggests this is a trap (by themselves, for some reason), in which case they would wait for the best opportunity to eliminate anybody they perceive as vulnerable, whether that is the tank or the wizard

If they don't know whats going on, they would attack whoever gets in their face first, because doing otherwise is rather silly.

The reason why this mini boss is here so the cook can say to the firstone down. "NOBODY BEATS ME IN THE KITCHEN "

[Crake]

So, I have a question. Why is the cook just waiting, fully armed and possibly invisible, for the party to come to them? If they know the ship is being contested, they would almost certainly have left the galley to go help/report to the captain/get reinforcements/arm themselves better. That they're still there suggests this is a trap (by themselves, for some reason), in which case they would wait for the best opportunity to eliminate anybody they perceive as vulnerable, whether that is the tank or the wizard

If they don't know whats going on, they would attack whoever gets in their face first, because doing otherwise is rather silly.


It depends on how the group plays, but generally walking into a room and dying in the surprise round isn't a great feeling.

Just as a point, the OP didn't say anything about him being waiting and ready. The gear he has is the gear he has, presumably the OP didn't realise what kukris actually were, and was thinking the cook would be using them to chop food. Considering the party is actually the ones doing the sneaking, if anything, THEY would get the surprise round.

[Âmesang]

So does anyone else have the sudden urge to watch Under Siege? :smallbiggrin:

[PaucaTerrorem]

So does anyone else have the sudden urge to watch Under Siege? :smallbiggrin:

No. Never Seagal. Never again.

[Mordaedil]

No. Never Seagal. Never again.

SNL's version of Segal is pretty on point though.

[Malroth]

does this boss have enough spellcraft to recognize a caster when he sees one? if not stab the first person he sees or the one nearest to the food.

[Mordaedil]

Why does he need spellcraft to recognize a caster? If there's a guy in starry robes with a wizard hat, it's pretty obvious who the wizard is.

[ryu]

Why does he need spellcraft to recognize a caster? If there's a guy in starry robes with a wizard hat, it's pretty obvious who the wizard is.

What stupid caster is strutting around in colorful cloths like a peacock before he's high enough level for such to not matter anymore?

[Mordaedil]

What stupid caster is strutting around in colorful cloths like a peacock before he's high enough level for such to not matter anymore?

And this kids, is why your character description and correct gear purchase matters.

[ryu]

And this kids, is why your character description and correct gear purchase matters.

It's true. I mean even with the general weakness of mundanes, do you really think it's any kind of smart to give enemy casters a neon-bright sign saying ''I'm the group wizard kill me first!'' to focus on? Exactly.

[Stealth Marmot]

It's true. I mean even with the general weakness of mundanes, do you really think it's any kind of smart to give enemy casters a neon-bright sign saying ''I'm the group wizard kill me first!'' to focus on? Exactly.

I have never played a single class arcane caster myself, my wizard rogue multiclass character always looked more like a rogue most times.

I did play with a guy who loved playing arcane casters and he specifically said that he always made sure they didn't dress like arcane casters for this reason. It's a sign of smart strategy since, meta concept of hit points aside, they don't wear armor and their spells can be interrupted quite easily if people are in their face.

[ryu]

I have never played a single class arcane caster myself, my wizard rogue multiclass character always looked more like a rogue most times.

I did play with a guy who loved playing arcane casters and he specifically said that he always made sure they didn't dress like arcane casters for this reason. It's a sign of smart strategy since, meta concept of hit points aside, they don't wear armor and their spells can be interrupted quite easily if people are in their face.

That said a hat and robe do come recommended at higher levels. The hat for the famous tinfoil hat trick to laugh at anti-magic fields. The non-magic robe to block line of sight to your actual items for the nosy or those who wish to target items. At high level if the enemy can't tell you're a caster without the stuff they were incompetent anyways for a number of reasons. May as well not hand the tough fights advantages for an easier time with idiots.

[Stealth Marmot]

That said a hat and robe do come recommended at higher levels. The hat for the famous tinfoil hat trick to laugh at anti-magic fields. The non-magic robe to block line of sight to your actual items for the nosy or those who wish to target items. At high level if the enemy can't tell you're a caster without the stuff they were incompetent anyways for a number of reasons. May as well not hand the tough fights advantages for an easier time with idiots.

At higher level you WANT people to know you are a wizard or sorcerer because high level wizards and sorcerers will end you and the 3 to 4 minutes surrounding your existence, and smart people know that. Plus you spent several levels being the squishy marshmallow so you EARNED a little showing off since you survived it.

[ryu]

At higher level you WANT people to know you are a wizard or sorcerer because high level wizards and sorcerers will end you and the 3 to 4 minutes surrounding your existence, and smart people know that. Plus you spent several levels being the squishy marshmallow so you EARNED a little showing off since you survived it.

No. Gods no. You want as few people to know anything of note about you as physically possible. Having it generally known that you're one of the most dangerous classes in the game will scare away the weak but savvy that's true. It will also tell actually dangerous opponents something to help prepare for the fight against you. It is for this very reason the scariest thing in high level D&D is some random humanoid I don't know enough to tell what it is. Are you familiar at all with how far I've taken this concept?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Are you familiar at all with how far I've taken this concept?
As I recall, not even your character is typically aware of just how dangerous they may or may not be.

[ryu]

As I recall, not even your character is typically aware of just how dangerous they may or may not be.

Precisely. In D&D, especially at high levels, the greatest fear of all is the unknown. The greatest defense is also to be unknown. Therefor the only sensible thing to do is to become well and truly unknowable, and all that implies. In an act of supreme cowardice I become that which is feared by all. Now you gotta agree that's metal as hell.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Precisely. In D&D, especially at high levels, the greatest fear of all is the unknown. The greatest defense is also to be unknown. Therefor the only sensible thing to do is to become well and truly unknowable, and all that implies. In an act of supreme cowardice I become that which is feared by all. Now you gotta agree that's metal as hell.
To conquer fear, you must become fear.


https://youtu.be/Ab1oCPru664?t=272

[ryu]

To conquer fear, you must become fear.


https://youtu.be/Ab1oCPru664?t=272

Truly you have grasped my manifesto for effective play. I am batman and so can you. Specifically justice league unlimited batman.

[icefractal]

The reverse can be fun - an unarmored grappler-type dressing like a mage so that foes will helpfully stand next to him, or even try a grapple themselves!

[hewhosaysfish]

First off I would change his weapons. No cook is using kukris in his kitchen.:smallbiggrin:

But they're even called "Cookeries"!

I apologise for that pun. Not sorry.

[Stealth Marmot]

But they're even called "Cookeries"!

I apologise for that pun. Not sorry.

And now the magic kukris have a name. The "COOKRIS"

[Slayer Lord]

And now the magic kukris have a name. The "COOKRIS"

This. I'm keeping this. :smallbiggrin:

[PaucaTerrorem]

But they're even called "Cookeries"!

I apologise for that pun. Not sorry.

Lord grant me the strength...

[Dusk Raven]

First off I would change his weapons. No cook is using kukris in his kitchen.:smallbiggrin:

Actually, kukris can be and are used for mundane things like chopping wood or vegetables. In my settings I tend to give kukris to "wilderness" cultures such as Gnolls for that reason.


And now the magic kukris have a name. The "COOKRIS"

If your players are like mine, they'll probably never forget this encounter...

[Stealth Marmot]

If your players are like mine, they'll probably never forget this encounter...
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/5e/5eff1c377f48790ca75a9a9878660481eeb4fde0172a2ad495 05dc15890486c8.jpg