Intelligence build help? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

D&DPrinceTandem

2016-11-30, 04:38 PM

WARNING VERY HIGH POWERED CAMAPIGN

Ok so I was thinking I wanted to make an intelligence based character (for the next campaign I’m going in) that can be and do anything. At first I immediately thought Changeling because they can look like anyone. For class I thought rouge/archivist, chameleon/cabinet trickster, but I didn’t want go into archivist because it didn’t seem to fit the fluff. Then I had an idea, what if I took Rouge/Factotum, chameleon/cabinet trickster. It would be perfect so here the rules for building this character
Changeling meets requirements for chameleon
Factotum doesn’t have to take able learner for chameleon, because it is kind of redundant.
Flaws, gestalt (with gestalt prestige), +18 to one score (int for this character), 3 auto la buyoff, are all allowed.
Fighter are allowed to take any feat they meet the requirements for not just fighter feats
Start at lvl 7

Things I still have to get ok’ed with the dm (and I would like to have your impute)

Can you apply conning strike multiple times in one attack?
Can you use venomous strike feat (DoTU) multiple times in one attack?
The dm says I can use the rouge blade from Savage Species, does that give me the ability to sneak attack at will or no? I have a big enough hide for if not.

Here is what I would like to do (? Means I don’t know how to do it,! Means I have done it)

Steal memories?
Look like anyone else!
Take up any roll in battle?
Take up any roll in Role Play!
Have fun (because that is what the game is about)

Here is what I have so far

Changeling (shadow, dark)
Factotum/rouge5, chameleon/cabinet trickster2

Str 14/2
Dex 16/3
Con 16/3
Int 36/16 (42 with magic item headband of int+6)
Wis 14/2
Cha 16/3

Rouge blade (thinblade elven) (+1 deadly precision, mithral, feycraft)
Shurikens
(3) +1 lightning surge, air elemental power (elder), returning
(3) +1 acidic surge, earth elemental power (elder), returning
(3) +1 Flaming surge, fire elemental power (elder), returning
(3) +1 icy surge, water elemental power (elder), returning
siftweave shirt
Hat of disguise (+6 int as well)
Spell book

Flaw{vulnerable}: assume supernatural transformation
Flaw{vulnerable}: Faerie Mysteries Init.
reginal: magic training
1: persona immersion
3: Item familiar (rapier)
6 :combat expertise

Rouge: fighter bonus, poison use, penetrating strike
poison use (DoTU)
Evasion
penetrating strike
minor lore
uncanny dodge
R1: combat reflex
R2: Insightful Reflexes
R4: Keen Intellect
R6 : Frightful Presence
Factotum:
inspiration points (4+30)
cunning insight
cunning knowledge
Trapfinding
Arcana Dilettante (3 spells 3rd lvl)
Brains over brawns
cunning defense
cunning strike
opportunistic piety
Chameleon:
Aptitude focus 1/day (+2)
Bonus feat (floating feat): Font of inspiration (I have taken this 29 times in the past)
Cabinet trickster:
Detect thoughts 2/day
Thought trick (daze)
doppelganger insights
bonus feat: Quick change

I have not gotten to a background so if you have any ideas I’m open

Eisfalken

2016-12-01, 01:54 AM

Ok so I was thinking I wanted to make an intelligence based character (for the next campaign I’m going in) that can be and do anything. At first I immediately thought Changeling because they can look like anyone. For class I thought rouge/archivist, chameleon/cabinet trickster, but I didn’t want go into archivist because it didn’t seem to fit the fluff. Then I had an idea, what if I took Rouge/Factotum, chameleon/cabinet trickster. It would be perfect so here the rules for building this character
Changeling meets requirements for chameleon
Factotum doesn’t have to take able learner for chameleon, because it is kind of redundant.
Flaws, gestalt (with gestalt prestige), +18 to one score (int for this character), 3 auto la buyoff, are all allowed.
Fighter are allowed to take any feat they meet the requirements for not just fighter feats
Start at lvl 7

If I may make a suggestion? Go for a factotum/wizard gestalt.

See if the DM will permit you to get the wizard ACF Eidetic Spellcaster, from Dragon #357, pg. 89. Basically gets rid of Scribe Scroll and familiar, lets you "memorize" spells instead of writing them in a book. You still pay to "write" the spell in your head, and this doesn't let you cast any spell at any time like a sorcerer; you still have to memorize them the normal way each day, which means you still need to think ahead.

But the beauty of this gestalt is that he's a super-genius. Depending on what PrC you want/need, you can probably keep doing this for 10 levels, netting you a whole slew of useful tricks based on Int bonus. He's not strictly a combat mook, but he can hold his own in a fight for a few rounds. He's going to be an amazing skill monkey with cunning knowledge and all the skill points you'll be collecting, and wizard spells will make almost all of these things even stronger (meaning he can be a great scout, party face, etc.).

Can you apply conning strike multiple times in one attack?

Yep. It still follows all rules for the sneak attack, but you can burn away all your Inspiration Points on that one thing.

But I strongly, STRONGLY, advise you not to do this all the time. First off, once you get to cunning surge, you can burn IP for extra standard actions. This is ridiculously powerful if used correctly. I need someone else here to tell me if this means you can in fact fire off multiple spells a round as long as you have IP, but if so, this is basically a version of DMM. Even if the spellcasting is still limited, that doesn't mean much: you can still attack AND cast a spell AND move in one go with this ability.

Second, you may want to preserve some IP in the combat encounter for cunning insight, to make sure your attack actually lands. Keep in mind, your BAB isn't that huge. It's not totally crappy, but you may need to push that bonus a little higher.

Last but not least, you can burn IP in the fight for more dodge bonus with cunning defense. This is definitely a big deal if you end up in a fight with something with multiple attacks and a higher attack bonus than you first thought.

I'm not saying never to blow your IP wad on sneak attack damage, I'm just saying you need to be very cool about it. Use it as a finishing move along with cunning insight and a really strong ranged touch spell.

Can you use venomous strike feat (DoTU) multiple times in one attack?

No. I think you vastly misunderstand how "attacks" work.

To make an attack, you use a standard or full-round action. If you make a standard attack, you get to roll ONCE at your highest attack bonus; this also lets you use a move action, before or after the standard action (i.e. you can move and attack, or attack and move, but only special feats let you move-attack-move). If you make a full-round attack, you may be able to make multiple attacks, based on your base attack bonus (BAB). The PHB tells you how to calculate this. But be warned: a full-round attack means you stand right there, and the only move you can make is a 5-ft. step.

Venomous Strike applies the poison DC bonus when you successfully hit a target with your poisoned weapon and using sneak attack... but after you hit a target, your weapon is no longer poisoned. DMG, pg. 296, clearly states that poison is gone the instant you hit the target.

Honestly, though? Poisons suck. They're nifty up to about level 10, but after that there's just too much crap that stops most of them. You're usually fighting something immune to it, or that has a huge save bonus against it. If the target has DR and the weapon doesn't do enough to get through, then the poison doesn't take effect AND it's gone. In theory you can take a mountain of feats and magic items and other crap to make poisons great. But in the Really-Real Game, everyone knows spells are far, far better than poisons.

Hey, if you're just dead-set on poisons, go for it. They do great work against more "mundane" opponents (humanoid targets and such), but if you try this stuff with dragons or demons, they're gonna laugh at you before they crush you to death.

The dm says I can use the rouge blade from Savage Species, does that give me the ability to sneak attack at will or no? I have a big enough hide for if not.

LOL, it technically does, but you better read the description of the blink spell. See that part where your attacks have a flat miss chance of 20%? That means about 1 out of 5 of your attacks are going to automatically fail. If you are super-determined to use poisons, that means you just added another limitation to them: they're gonna fail outright sometimes.

If go with wizard gestalt, just use spells. Greater and superior invisibility are awesome.

Steal memories?
Can't do this without high-level magic. Meaning yeah, you're taking factotum/wizard gestalt.

Look like anyone else!
Changeling wizards are fracking amazing for this. Definitely a plus for the wizard side of the gestalt.

Take up any roll in battle?
Eh... no. You are most assuredly NOT a front-line fighter. Ever. You don't have good hit point, AC, or most any defense that will stop that dragon from back-handing you into your next character. You don't even have as high an attack bonus as dedicated fighter-types (such as gishes, which will always be better than you in melee).

That doesn't in any way make this a bad idea. You can do something for a few rounds... and then you need to switch tactics. For example, if you blow all your IP into sneak attack, guess what? You can't sneak attack anymore. IP don't come back until after combat.

So you have to think fast and/or think ahead. Start combat by buffing up the fighter. Try to debuff the enemy from range. Go stealth and start looking for important targets to sneak attack (like spellcasters). When the target is dead, polymorph into something huge and hideous to slam the enemies with fists or claws or fangs. Use spells to create obstacles on the field to stop the healer from being harmed. Use aid another to boost others' attack rolls here and there.

Bottom line? Keep switching tactics, using new combinations of spells and abilities. Even if some don't work mechanically, you may cause such confusion on the table that you can line up a really juicy combo on a target. Your DM should both want to give you a trophy for your trickery, and throw a damn book at your head.

Take up any roll in Role Play!
Trust me, a changeling factotum/wizard gestalt is this. ALL this.

Recommended build to me is changeling factotum-transmuter 5 / recaster 5, then keep going factotum-transmuter all the way. If you can't have Eidetic Spellcaster ACF, try to get the DM to let you get the Bonus Fighter Feat ACF (UA, pg. 59), and grab Improved Initiative or a ranged combat feat of some kind. To get to recaster, take anything you'd find useful to your particular style (Extend and Persist for abjuration and transmutation, Silent and Still for illusion and general stealth use, etc.)

Primary stats are Int and Con; you can dump Str. Try to balance out Dex, Wis, and Cha, since all of them are generally useful to you, but don't get twisted trying to make them godly. Long as you pump Int high as you can legally get it, and don't have any penalties to anything but Str, you should be just fine.

Skills take some finesse. I'd start with maxing out perception skills (Listen, Spot, Search), and stealth skills (Hide and Move Silently). Follow up with social skills (Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, and Sense Motive), and some magic skills (Concentration, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device). If you still got points to spare, drop at least one point in any skills you may find useful, so you can use Cunning Knowledge from factotum with it (you only get the level bonus once a day per skill, but that means you probably will never fail really important skill rolls).

Feats are tricky; it really depends on how you want to play this guy. Fundamentally, you probably want to run a God-Wizard, but you'll have even better options. If you want to stick to being versatile, take Improved Initiative (he who goes first usually wins), Obtain Familiar, Planar Familiar (take air elemental, glass mephit from Sandstorm, or imp, depending on alignment and tastes), and any useful metamagic you don't yet have (Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Rapid Spell, Silent Spell, Still Spell, etc.). Consider taking ranged attack feats for ranged spells (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, etc.). If you dumped a lot of skill points in Knowledge skills, get yourself Knowledge Devotion so you can make skill checks for combat bonuses.

It's easy to loose focus with items as well, so look for versatile items. Consider an elvencraft shortbow (cast greater mighty wallop on the "club" portion for melee combat; you'll do ridiculous amounts of damage at high levels); put +1 distance psychokinetic warning on the bow part (increased range, shots have a force attack, big boost to initiative), +1 deadly precision spell storing on the club part (good for close-up stealth work, lets you put a great damage or debuff spell on a melee attack). You can change up some of the enchantments on there to suit your style, but try to have something good for all kinds of different situations. Get weapon crystals for attacking special creatures like constructs, fiends, and undead; if you need energy damage like fire or cold, try to use a crystal instead of using up a "plus bonus" on the weapon itself. Add in a wand grip when it's made, slot in a good wand like nerveskitter for an extra +5 initiative (which, with warning property and Improved Initiative, should make you twitchy as a damn mongoose).

I wouldn't bother too much with magic arrows, but I definitely would look for all the different ones you can get that have different effects. The arrows in Dungeon Compendium are great: flight for more range, blunt for nonlethal attacks (for live capture missions), you can probably find some good uses with smoke and thunder arrows. Races of the Wild has dragonsbreath arrows for starting fires, and swiftwing arrows reduce range penalties (but don't improve range). You generally won't need special stuff like adamantine or silver if you got certain enhancements or weapon crystals.

Get eternal wands for bread-and-butter utility spells: endure elements, mount, stuff like that. Just look for any 0 to 3rd level spells you may need to use once or twice a day, and if you can afford an eternal wand, there you go.

Do the same with runestaffs, but you can go for higher-level spell slots here, for things you may need some time, but aren't sure to need all the time. Hidden lodge (Spell Compendium), phantasmal steed, fabricate, wall of stone, anything for long-distance travel and/or long-term utility work (like building stuff).

Get Ehlonna's quiver for your bow, arrows, runestaff, and wands. They should all fit in there, depending on how many of each object you have. If you have extra room, consider filling in with other tricky items. Javelins of lightning are expensive, but an easy source of electrical line attack damage when you need it. Be imaginative here and look for items that fit the spaces for the quiver given in its description.

Take ring of anticipation and shadow cloak from DoTU. If the DM lets you, boost the deflection bonus to AC on the cloak every chance you get. For your other ring, save up for a minor ring of universal energy resistance (use spells as much as you can until then), and just upgrade that bad boy as often as you have disposable income.

For armor, ask DM if you can use the rule in 3.0 Arms & Equipment Guide to add armor stuff to bracers of armor. If they say yes, just focus on stealth and miss chance defense: +1 death ward greater blurring quickness speed seems pretty low-key, but it gives you a near-constant miss chance, a smidgen of extra movement, haste when you need it, and even a get-out-of-death-once card per day. You can always add more or different to suit your tastes.

After that? The sky's the limit. Get a good necklace item, make it sentient (to give you another set of senses to detect stealthed enemies, some continual detect magic, etc.). If you used your bracers of armor trick, you can get a robe with some cool spellcasting utility, such as the robe of mysterious conjuration (which lets you burn a spell for a summon monster of the same level). Feet, hands, head, face, all that stuff is whatever; remember that the focus is either spellcasting, stealth, or skill boosting.

Hope this helps out.