Running for 7 players

[Trask]

I'm starting a new campaign soon, some of you may have seen my post on magic items thats still on page 1, and I'm doing it with 5e which is new to me. I have a regular group of friends that is 5 people and its always been very manageable. But two of my other friends who have never played D&D wanted to play this time and I dont want to say no to them because theyre my friends and I want to get as many people into D&D as I can. But even in other editions I've only run for 6 people max, and usually not for very long. Question is, how is the experience of running for 7 people in a game? Has anyone done it? I like very dungeoncrawly, old school kinds of campaigns and I'm worried that the dungeon fighting which I love might turn into too much of a slog. Anyone have any experience here? Tips or reasons why I just shouldn't do it are accepted. Thanks.

[Torgairon]

of the five regulars, not one of them would be interested in DM'ing for a few of the others while you take on the new guys + 1 or 2? I understand completely if the answer is "if I'm not the DM, it's not happening because no one else will take the time" because that's the situation I've been in with my group for a while, but it's worth bringing up.

[Trask]

of the five regulars, not one of them would be interested in DM'ing for a few of the others while you take on the new guys + 1 or 2? I understand completely if the answer is "if I'm not the DM, it's not happening because no one else will take the time" because that's the situation I've been in with my group for a while, but it's worth bringing up.

Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head lol. If I'm not DMing its probably not happening. I could bring it up, one of my friends has DMed before but he doesnt really like it.

[MrStabby]

It isn't unmanageable, but it is less than ideal.

More players means less time to focus on each, it means its harder to find a unique skill/role and it is a bit harder to DM -simply more stuff to keep track of. In a dungeon crawl type game this may become even more pronounced.

In combat there is the risk of killing a character before they have a go with 7 people. If you scale combat so it remains a threat and uses up appreciable resources then its damage output is likely to be in the order of more than 1/7th of the party HP per turn.

On the plus side it is an impressive group if everyone turns up every session. My advice would be to be open about the likelihood of no shows, ask for players to keep an up to date character sheet with you in case they can't make the next session and for every player to have a nominated second to play their character in their absence. Based on my experience I would guess you would be looking at about 5 players at the table most of the time.

[GorogIrongut]

May I suggest that you'll be better off splitting them into two separate groups. Take two of your most experienced players and team them up with the two newer players. Run the remaining three as a separate group.

Run the two groups through the same dungeon crawl and have them do it concurrently. Make it kind of a competition to see who can get the most out of it. Best part, it's easy to get lost in a dungeon. If Player #1 from Group A can't make his normal day, a chute/trick door opened up and he got temporarily separated from his party and found Group B. Everyone gets to play, regardless of their schedules without it becoming overly burdensome on yourself.

Because 7 is too many.

By doing the above, you don't have to create any extra material, you just have to be willing to run on two separate nights. You also foster camaraderie and rivalry at the same time. If there's one thing I've found, new players need a bit of both.

[Breashios]

Whether 7 players is too much for a single go depends (obviously) on you and the players. Can you move effectively between players in the non-combat scenes? Will they all show regularly? How much does each want to be involved? Do you have a player or two that help run initiative, look up rules, etc.?

The main danger I see is that the two new players may not find the game enjoyable and give up pretty soon if they don’t get considerable attention. The first thing I would do is express this concern to the new players. Let them know you really want them to play, but are unsure if they will really enjoy it with your attention split between so many players.

The obvious solution, similar to what has been mentioned, is to do more gaming with two groups, IF you have the time available to do so. Though GorogIrongut gives one good suggestion, I wouldn’t necessarily even put them in the same adventure. What is interesting to one combination of players/characters might be completely different for another. That way if one or two players have the time and want to play in both groups, you can do that as two groups of five or whatever. Do try to keep them in the same campaign world, however, in case you get down to numbers you can run together again.

My experience running 7 players is that it lasts a very short time. It is hard for schedules to align consistently as you increase in number. One or two might be missing for most sessions. We’ve been up to 7 players, but never for more than two consecutive sessions. My current group has six players. I have been able to keep four; excepting illness present throughout, but the other two are between 50% to 80% in attendance. We use other players helping out, as mentioned above, or if logically possible, have a character whose player is missing otherwise occupied (set aside).

On the plus side, this is a better problem than having no players!

[ad_hoc]

I don't think it can work. At least not without making major changes to the game.

My upper limit is 5 players.

There are the obvious spotlight issues. More players means less spotlight time for each of them. But then there are the game mechanics too. Combat needs to become deadly for some characters or it isn't a challenge. You also run into the problem of not having any spotlight time at all for some or all players as multiple characters will be able to accomplish the same things.

Everything will take longer too. Stories will drag on.

When people create threads on message boards looking for advice because one aspect of the game or another isn't working for them one of the first things I ask is how many players there are in the game. A lot of the time they are playing with 6+ players.

[Trask]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not gonna run for all 7 it seems like a bad idea. These two new people are more my friends than the friends of my regular group so I think I'll just stay with 5 people for my gaming group. I'll run another game for the other two and maybe scrounge up some other people so its not just 2. Thanks for the help

[rooneg]

When I run AL games at cons I often end up with 7 players at a table. I admit, I don't enjoy it. 5 is a much better number. I find it difficult to make sure everyone is involved, combats drag on longer than you'd think, you have to work a lot harder at the time management part of things, it's really easy for a few players to be heavily involved in what's currently happening and a bunch just glaze over until the next time you roll initiative.

There's a reason I limit it to 5 players if I have a choice.

[MrStabby]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not gonna run for all 7 it seems like a bad idea. These two new people are more my friends than the friends of my regular group so I think I'll just stay with 5 people for my gaming group. I'll run another game for the other two and maybe scrounge up some other people so its not just 2. Thanks for the help

3 players is a good start. So if you can scrounge one more it could work. They can set an example but everyone gets time to do stuff and there are lots of roles free.

[MrFahrenheit]

It's kinda funny, because I actually prefer DMing for 8 over 7, though 6 is my normal max. Makes the XP math that much easier.

A bit of advice regarding combat, if you decide to revisit the idea some time: make it the same way for the players you would for the monsters. That is to say, each grouping of players who rolled initiative before, in between, or after an enemy (or group of enemies) get set into their own group, and can determine individuals' order within said group each round.

[BW022]

Question is, how is the experience of running for 7 people in a game? Has anyone done it? I like very dungeoncrawly, old school kinds of campaigns and I'm worried that the dungeon fighting which I love might turn into too much of a slog. Anyone have any experience here? Tips or reasons why I just shouldn't do it are accepted. Thanks.

Most people generally don't like DMing more than 5 or 6. I prefer even smaller groups. However, I've run 7. It is physically possible, but it runs into problems.

The main issues are:

a) Combat takes too long. A PC might average 60 seconds per turn. Creatures maybe 20 seconds. With 5 PCs fighting 5 orcs, a round of combat takes over 6 minutes. With 7 PCs, you need to increase the number of creatures to say 10. The turn now take over 10 minutes. That means everyone has to wait 10 minutes between turns. The overall combat might go from 30 minutes to an hour. This means less combats to advance plot.

b) Scaling is more difficult. 7 PCs can really do a lot of damage. If they all focus their abilities on a single creature... it is pretty much dead. The opposite also becomes true. As you add more, or more powerful, creatures to challenge them... they could also focus on a single PC and kill them pretty easily. If the PCs are in a narrow passage, if they don't have many ranged weapons, if they are surprised, etc. the combat can easily be way too easy or instant death to a PC.

c) You typically have less non-combat time. Combats take longer and non-combat encounters tend to need to be hurried. With 7 PCs, not everyone is going to get a change to talk to NPCs, go off and do their business, use their skills, etc.

The above often create a completely different dynamic. Even when people are nice, experienced, etc. you'll often see that folks become much more hurried, results oriented, and less patient -- often in a legitimate attempt to keep the game moving.


I would strongly recommend not doing this to new players. Let them play in a smaller group where they can take their time, make mistakes, try things, learn what works and what doesn't work, etc. In a small group, you get more roleplaying time to learn, other players can take the time to help you, you always get another chance relatively quickly, etc.

Try running the new players separately, maybe with one helper PC. Run separate sessions on another night. Starting at 1st-level (if possible) and level them quickly. Give them simpler encounters, more roleplaying time, and keep the choices black and white. Even 3 or 4 sessions of this is enough to give them a bit idea of the game and to learn without being pressured or bored from waiting 10+ minutes between turns. They can take time to look up rules, abilities, discuss them, etc. When they are more familiar with the rules, then have their campaign join up with the other group.

Whether you want to run 7 players at once... you'll see. However, I would never try it with new players if you can avoid it.

[Officer Joy]

Well, the first time I ever DM'ed it was a group of 7 players. 4 of whom were completely new, 2 only played 1 previous campaign ( together with me). And the first 2 sessions went pretty great. Then the first one droped off as he had only comited for one session. Then a second one had outgame troubles with another player. So also droped out. The other 2 newbees where occasionaly absent. And after the end of the campain a newbee took over as DM and the last newbee droped out.

That was my experience. Hope this anicdote is usefull.