Eternal Revenant Blade build

[danielxcutter]

Note: Thought exercise.

I hear that the Eternal Blade and Revenant Blade prestige classes fit together like a glove - RB's capstone allows you to treat both ends of your double-ended scimitar as two-handed weapons, and EB can unleash a buttload of attacks using by using Time Stands Still -> Island in Time -> Time Stands Still, especially if you use Stormguard Warrior on the first TSS for ridiculous damage on the second.

Any general advice? Obviously, the TWF line is required, as is Power Attack. I'd like to avoid using any other base classes besides Warblade and Crusader, and it goes without saying that it's going to be geared towards melee. Dragonborn loses most of the elfy flavor, so that's discouraged, and I would appreciate it if you stuck to half-elf due to the favored class rules. I'm mostly looking for good maneuvers and feats besides the ones I've already mentioned, but other good advice is also welcome.

[gorfnab]

From here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-144890.html)
Originally from here (thanks to the wayback machine) (http://web.archive.org/web/20141229021047/http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1096851)


The Eternal Revenant


Quote: "I've more than a millenium of battles behind me - you have only half a lifetime's. Walk away."


ETERNAL BLADE - FIRST 5 LEVELS:

Ranger 1: Bladebearer of the Valenar (1st). Favored Enemy - Undead, Track, Wild Empathy. Full ranks into Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Spot, and Survival.

Ranger 2: Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger 2). Full ranks into Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Spot, and Survival.

Fighter 1: WP Focus - Valenar Double Scimitar (Fighter 1), Power Attack (3rd).

Warblade 1: Battle Clarity (Int to Reflex saves), Weapon Aptitude. Blood in the Water, Moment of Perfect Mind, Steel Wind, Wolf Fang Strike.

Warblade 2: Uncanny Dodge. Emerald Razor.


ETERNAL BLADE - SECOND 5 LEVELS:

Revenant Blade 1: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (6th). Hero of the Valaes Tairn (+5 to Diplomacy and Gather Info checks with Valenar elves), Ancestral Guidance 1 (Improved Critical, Weapon Specialization from a zaelshin tu).

Revenant Blade 2: Shadow of the Past (class level to Hide and Move Silently checks).

Revenant Blade 3: Ancestral Guidance 2 (Great Cleave).

Revenant Blade 4: Power Attack (9th). Giant Slayer (+4 to Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, and damage against giants, speak and write Giant).

Revenant Blade 5: Ancestral Guidance 3 (Blind Fight), Legendary Force (both ends of double scimitar count as two-handed weapons).


ETERNAL BLADE - LAST 10 LEVELS:

Eternal Blade 1: Blade Guide, Eternal Training (Int bonus to attacks and damage against a type for a battle or one Diamond Mind or Devoted Spirit maneuver once per day). Iron Heart Surge.

Eternal Blade 2: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (12th). Guided Strike (swift action to ignore enemy’s DR).

Eternal Blade 3: Armored Uncanny Dodge, Eternal Training 2/day. 1 more readied maneuver. Crusader’s Strike.

Eternal Blade 4: Eternal Knowledge (blade guide can make skill checks in two Knowledge skills with a bonus fo class level + Int).

Eternal Blade 5: Martial Study - Pouncing Charge (15th). Rallying Strike, Aura of Triumph.

Eternal Blade 6: Defensive Insight (swift action to gain Int insight bonus to AC against a single foe for 1 round). 1 more readied maneuver.

Eternal Blade 7: Eternal Training 4/day. Quicksilver Motion.

Eternal Blade 8: Leap Attack (18th). Tactical Insight (swift action to make all opponents you attack take a penalty to AC equal to your Int for 1 round, but only for the purposes of your allies’ attacks).

Eternal Blade 9: Eternal Training 5/day. 1 more readied maneuver. Lightning Throw.

Eternal Blade 10: Island in Time 1/day.


ETERNAL REVENANT STRATEGY:


Round 1: Use a swift action to bypass your enemy’s DR. Charge the opponent in Blood in the Water stance using Pouncing Charge. You’ll attack 7 times with a 1 to 4 ratio of hit-to-damage, gaining an extra +1 to hit and damage for every critical (15-20 critical with the Revenant Blade’s Improved Critical feat). If the fight is a crucial one, use Island in Time to grab a second full attack.

Round 2: Use a swift action to shift to Aura of Triumph, then unload with a full attack. Heal up to 21 HP to anyone in the party who needs it. If you haven't already, consider using Island in Time to double the healing you manage this round.

Round 3: Use a swift action to refresh your maneuvers. Attack as many times as possible with Aura of Triumph up (consider using Spring Attack so you’ll be set up for a Pouncing Charge in round 4).

[danielxcutter]

I... don't think that build gets 9th-level maneuvers outside of Eternal Training. Also, taking 3 base classes might run into favored class problems, depending on the table. Honestly, I just want something like Warblade 5/RB 5/EB 10 or Warblade 4/Crusader 1/RB 5/EB 10, but that's still a nice build.

[gorfnab]

I... don't think that build gets 9th-level maneuvers outside of Eternal Training. Also, taking 3 base classes might run into favored class problems, depending on the table. Honestly, I just want something like Warblade 5/RB 5/EB 10 or Warblade 4/Crusader 1/RB 5/EB 10, but that's still a nice build.
Base classes at 2/1/2, so no favored class issues. The problem with X Full BAB 5/ RB 5/ EB 10 is getting enough ranks in Hide and Move Silently and the feats needed to meet the prereqs of Revenant Blade.

[danielxcutter]

Base classes at 2/1/2, so no favored class issues. The problem with X Full BAB 5/ RB 5/ EB 10 is getting enough ranks in Hide and Move Silently and the feats needed to meet the prereqs of Revenant Blade.

True... but it would be nice if you could get Time Stands Still without having to rely on Eternal Training.

[Eldariel]

Ranger 1/Warblade 4/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10 gets you 9s and the Hide-ranks. Use the Elf Ranger Substitution Level on the first level for (8+Int)x4 skill points. Use skill retraining [PHBII] if you're low Int and need to hit those skill point requirements. You need a Flaw to get all the required feats in time though (and that still postpones Power Attack to 9). Favored Class...well, I pity you if you play in a game that uses those rules but there are elven subraces with favored class: ranger (Wood Elves for one).

[danielxcutter]

Ranger 1/Warblade 4/Revenant Blade 5/Eternal Blade 10 gets you 9s and the Hide-ranks. Use the Elf Ranger Substitution Level on the first level for (8+Int)x4 skill points. Use skill retraining [PHBII] if you're low Int and need to hit those skill point requirements. Favored Class...well, I pity you if you play in a game that uses those rules but there are elven subraces with favored class: ranger (Wood Elves for one).

Half-Elf has Favored Class: Any, but I'm not sure if it would be better than Wood Elf. Either sound viable, though, and Warblade levels mean that Int isn't a dump stat, so no retraining required either.

[Eldariel]

Half-Elf has Favored Class: Any, but I'm not sure if it would be better than Wood Elf. Either sound viable, though, and Warblade levels mean that Int isn't a dump stat, so no retraining required either.

Wood Elf is awkward since the stats scream "physical" but you really don't want too low a Con or Int as an Eternal Blade. However, all things said, due to how the point buy works it's at least better than Half-Elf which essentially gets nothing. You do get d12 HDs from Warblade so you can make do with ~14 Con just fine and you don't need that high starting Int to make use of those abilities. Meanwhile, particularly a TWFer needs high Dex to get those feats and you're still Strength-based, doubly so with the Double Scimitar, so max Str is good.

Ultimately, your feats will probably look like
1. Bladebearer of the Valenar
Flaw. Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Weapon Focus: Valenar Double Scimitar
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Power Attack
12. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting


So you don't have time to get anything cool but that's a decent baseline level of competence at least. Though missing out on Pounce really sucks. Sadly you need both, Hide and Move Silently in class to get into Revenant Blade in time and you need full BAB to enter Eternal Blade in time, and 14 levels in martial initiator classes to hit 9th level maneuvers so your options are extremely limited. You have exactly 1 free level to work with, which needs to get you the skills required, full BAB and preferably a feat too.

You can use Gloves of the Balanced Hand [Magic Item Compendium] as a sub for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting though; that frees up some feats.

[danielxcutter]

Wood Elf is awkward since the stats scream "physical" but you really don't want too low a Con or Int as an Eternal Blade. However, all things said, due to how the point buy works it's at least better than Half-Elf which essentially gets nothing. You do get d12 HDs from Warblade so you can make do with ~14 Con just fine and you don't need that high starting Int to make use of those abilities. Meanwhile, particularly a TWFer needs high Dex to get those feats and you're still Strength-based, doubly so with the Double Scimitar, so max Str is good.

Ultimately, your feats will probably look like
1. Bladebearer of the Valenar
Flaw. Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Weapon Focus: Valenar Double Scimitar
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Power Attack
12. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting


So you don't have time to get anything cool but that's a decent baseline level of competence at least. Though missing out on Pounce really sucks. Sadly you need both, Hide and Move Silently in class to get into Revenant Blade in time and you need full BAB to enter Eternal Blade in time, and 14 levels in martial initiator classes to hit 9th level maneuvers so your options are extremely limited. You have exactly 1 free level to work with, which needs to get you the skills required, full BAB and preferably a feat too.

You can use Gloves of the Balanced Hand [Magic Item Compendium] as a sub for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting though; that frees up some feats.

You could just delay grabbing ITWF and GTWF if flaws aren't being used, right? Also, I presume that grabbing Stormguard Warrior before epic levels is possible, but is there any room to grab other useful feats? Pounce is good, but I think that it's far from required to be useful, so no need for charging feats I guess?

[Darrin]

I... don't think that build gets 9th-level maneuvers outside of Eternal Training. Also, taking 3 base classes might run into favored class problems, depending on the table. Honestly, I just want something like Warblade 5/RB 5/EB 10 or Warblade 4/Crusader 1/RB 5/EB 10, but that's still a nice build.

It's not possible to get all 5 levels of Revenant Blade and 9th level maneuvers because of the fiddly Initiator Level rules. EB 9 is the last level where you get a new maneuver, but if you take Warblade 5/RB 5/EB 9, your IL is 16.5, just short of 17.

Warblade 6/RB 4 or Crusader 6/RB 4 will get you Time Stands Still at EB 9, but you lose out on Legendary Force.

The real problem, however, is the Move Silently 5 requirement. There's no easy way to get that in the first 5 levels without Flaws or retraining. You can get Hide as a class skill via Forestlord Elf or Forestlord Half-Elf. But Warblade, Crusader, and Fighter don't get Move Silently as a class skill, and the only way to get it is to take Ranger 1 or the Aereni Focus feat (slight fluff issue there, as you're supposed to be from Valenar). But if you take Ranger 1 or Aereni Focus, you're short one feat, as you need three feats in five levels to get into Revenant Blade:

1) Ranger 1. Feat: Weapon Focus.
2) Warblade 1.
3) Warblade 2. Feat: Bladebearer of the Valenar.
4) Warblade 3.
5) Warblade 4.

or:

1) Fighter 1. Feat: Aereni Focus. Bonus: TWF.
2) Warblade 1.
3) Warblade 2. Feat: Bladebearer of the Valenar.
4) Warblade 3.
5) Warblade 4.

Taking a flaw or retraining Track/Aereni Focus will fix this, and there's also a Fighter variant in Dragon #310 called Survivalist that gets Hide and Move Silently as class skills along with a bonus feat, but most DMs are very leery of Dragon magazine content. Even if you do manage to get all three feats and the skill ranks, you still don't get IL 17 until Eternal Blade 10 at 20th level.

Taking a Minor Bloodline might work... but the rules are a nightmarish mess and nobody can agree on how exactly you calculate the XP for that.

[Eldariel]

You could just delay grabbing ITWF and GTWF if flaws aren't being used, right? Also, I presume that grabbing Stormguard Warrior before epic levels is possible, but is there any room to grab other useful feats? Pounce is good, but I think that it's far from required to be useful, so no need for charging feats I guess?

Unfortunately, if flaws aren't used and you can't come up with any other source of extra feats, this build is simply impossible. You get feats on 1, 3 and 6 and you need 3 feats to enter Revenant Blade. To get all the Revenant Blade + Eternal Blade stuff (both of which have their best abilities as their capstones), you need to enter Revenant Blade on level 6, thus you're one level short for the feat required. The feat is sadly necessary for this build to even happen. Well, or you can Dark Chaos Shuffle elven Proficiencies or something...

The thing about pounce is, a two-weapon fighter needs ways to get full attacks. Otherwise the second weapon and all your feats are completely useless; every turn you move and attack, you're just a single weapon fighter missing a bunch of feats. Since you kill enemies pretty fast, you need some way to move between enemies and to get your full attacks. Tiger Claw offers Pouncing Charge at 5th level which solves that issue handily, and some other ways to use both weapons and move, but you can't get Tiger Claw maneuvers from Eternal Blade so while you get the initiator level, you need to get items to learn those. And Pouncing Charge comes somewhat late anyways.

[danielxcutter]

Oh fudge. :smallannoyed: Then does anyone have a fun melee EB build that isn't Warblade 10/EB 10?

[Kaje]

There's Tempest Stormwind's "Storm Knight," a dragonmark-based gish build. The actual linked build has the same IL problems as the other one, but I'm pretty sure you can swap out the fighter level for warblade with minimal problems.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471336-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-Storm-Knight-(Tempest_Stormwind)

EDIT: Hmm. Actually, it uses flaws. He says you can do without them, but that and fitting weapon focus in might be difficult. Still it's a cool build.

[Eldariel]

Oh fudge. :smallannoyed: Then does anyone have a fun melee EB build that isn't Warblade 10/EB 10?

I'm personally fond of Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 2/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10 (taking the Ranger-levels first of course). Built it as an Archer/Melee hybrid, works really well in that function. Gets Pounce from Barbarian which coupled with Bounding Assault allows full attacks from basically anywhere. I used Targeteer Fighter from Dragon Magazine. Then Ranger allows nabbing Rapid Shot without having to invest in the weak archery feats making him a competent archer with minimal investment. Rest is just Warblade/Eternal Blade, picking Knowledge Devotion to make use of Eternal Knowledge and gain widely applicable bonuses. Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) works for both, bows and melee.

Something like
Ranger 1
Barbarian 1
Warblade 1
Warblade 2
Warblade 3
Warblade 4
Fighter 1
Ranger 2
Warblade 5
Warblade 6
Eternal Blade ->

The only feat you must have is Weapon Focus. Otherwise you're free to invest in the various lines available to you, including:
Combat Reflexes (Warblade bonus) > Improved Trip > Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knock-Down)
Power Attack (and Improved Sunder > Shock Trooper [CWar]/Leap Attack [CAdv] if desired)
Rapid Shot
Knowledge Devotion [CChamp] (works nicely with Eternal Knowledge)
Mage Slayer [CArc] > Blind-Fight (Warblade bonus) > Pierce Magical Concealment [CArc]
Instantaneous Rage [CWar] > Intimidating Rage [CWar]> Imperious Command
Weapon Specialization > Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery [PHBII]

Et cetera.

[danielxcutter]

There's Tempest Stormwind's "Storm Knight," a dragonmark-based gish build. The actual linked build has the same IL problems as the other one, but I'm pretty sure you can swap out the fighter level for warblade with minimal problems.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471336-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-Storm-Knight-(Tempest_Stormwind)

A bit setting-specific, but pretty nice.

[danielxcutter]

I'm personally fond of Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 2/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10 (taking the Ranger-levels first of course). Built it as an Archer/Melee hybrid, works really well in that function. Gets Pounce from Barbarian which coupled with Bounding Assault allows full attacks from basically anywhere. I used Targeteer Fighter from Dragon Magazine. Then Ranger allows nabbing Rapid Shot without having to invest in the weak archery feats making him a competent archer with minimal investment. Rest is just Warblade/Eternal Blade, picking Knowledge Devotion to make use of Eternal Knowledge and gain widely applicable bonuses. Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) works for both, bows and melee.

Something like
Ranger 1
Barbarian 1
Warblade 1
Warblade 2
Warblade 3
Warblade 4
Fighter 1
Ranger 2
Warblade 5
Warblade 6
Eternal Blade ->

The only feat you must have is Weapon Focus. Otherwise you're free to invest in the various lines available to you, including:
Combat Reflexes (Warblade bonus) > Improved Trip > Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knock-Down)
Power Attack (and Improved Sunder > Shock Trooper [CWar]/Leap Attack [CAdv] if desired)
Rapid Shot
Knowledge Devotion [CChamp] (works nicely with Eternal Knowledge)
Mage Slayer [CArc] > Blind-Fight (Warblade bonus) > Pierce Magical Concealment [CArc]
Instantaneous Rage [CWar] > Intimidating Rage [CWar]> Imperious Command
Weapon Specialization > Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery [PHBII]

Et cetera.

Odd, plus multiclassing penalties could be a problem depending on the table, but the idea is... interesting, to say the least.

[Kaje]

A bit setting-specific, but pretty nice.

So's Revenant Blade.

[Eldariel]

Odd, plus multiclassing penalties could be a problem depending on the table, but the idea is... interesting, to say the least.

Well, in tables using the rule, you can dodge multiclass penalties by playing a race with Warblade as favoured class (so some Half-Elf variant or something adapted for Tome of Battle).

[Darrin]

Oh fudge. :smallannoyed: Then does anyone have a fun melee EB build that isn't Warblade 10/EB 10?

Warblade 6/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Eternal Blade 10.

Because if you can't solve a problem by throwing katanas at it, then maybe you haven't thrown enough katanas at it yet.

There's also the Eternal Idiot build:

Warblade 9/Crusader 1/Eternal Blade 10.

When you take your Crusader level, get White Raven Tactics (IL = 5.5) as one of your maneuvers. At 12th level, take Extra Granted Maneuver. At 13th level, add the +1 maneuver known to your Warblade side but add the +1 maneuver readied to the Crusader side, as this also adds +1 maneuvers granted. At 16th level, add the +1 maneuver readied/granted to your Crusader side. You now know 5 Crusader maneuvers and are granted 5 Crusader maneuvers at the beginning of your turn. Since you never have any maneuvers withheld (waiting to be granted), you always get those 5 granted maneuvers dealt to you. Hence, you *always* have White Raven Tactics readied on your turn. By RAW (PHB Glossary page 304) you count as your own ally.

Now, you don't quite get infinite turns, but you get a lot. Whatever you roll for initiative, you act on that count and every count after it, until everybody in the combat has taken their turn. Then the general "How combat works" rules kick in (PHB p. 133):



5. When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends.


There's a quirk to it that you have to remember as you approach the combatant with the lowest initiative count: just before he acts, you have to use the Delay action to wait until the next round starts and reset your initiative count back to something higher. Creatures that get killed or that use readied/delayed actions can screw this up, but if you have a cooperative cohort or ally that hasn't acted yet, you can ask them to keep delaying their turn until you finish using WRT for the round.

If you want both WRT and Time Stands Still granted every round... it's possible, but requires some spell level shenanigans to get into Jade Phoenix Mage first:

Duskblade 1/Warblade 2/Crusader 4/JPM 3/Eternal Blade 10

Use Versatile Spellcaster/Heighten Spell to get into JPM. Swap in WRT at Crusader 4 and take Extra Granted Maneuver at 6th or 9th. At JPM 3, put your +1 readied maneuver on your Crusader side, and all your new known maneuvers on your Warblade side. Same thing with EB. At 18th level, you should know 6 Crusader maneuvers (including WRT), can ready 8 of them (even though you only have 6), get 6 granted maneuvers (Extra Granted Maneuver +1, JPM +1, EB +2), and have an IL of 16.5. At 19th level, you get +1 known maneuver and +1 readied/granted maneuver, and your IL is 17.5, so you can take Time Stands Still and add it to your known Crusader maneuvers.

You will get books thrown at you. Wear a helmet.

[danielxcutter]

Bloodstorm Blade... reminds me about the Katana Chucker build. That one was a fun one. :smallbiggrin:

[animewatcha]

Any particular reason why Ranger class level versus Warrior class thing from Unearthed Arcana?

[danielxcutter]

Can particular reason why Ranger class level versus Warrior class thing from Unearthed Arcana?

Because it's an alternative rule system.