Dragon Age VI: Siege Harder

[Archpaladin Zousha]

"What does that even MEAN? Varric must be stopped..."

[Giggling Ghast]

Sadly, it'll be a while before we hear anything new on the Dragon Age front. Bioware won't even say that it's in development.

[Morty]

We know it'll come out at some point, probably concern Solas and probably take place in Tevinter. But that's all inferred from the ending to Trespasser.

[Dienekes]

We know it'll come out at some point, probably concern Solas and probably take place in Tevinter. But that's all inferred from the ending to Trespasser.

I'm holding out hope we'll meet up with my main bro, I heard he's been making quite a name for himself back among those Qun loving fanatics.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Any chance Sten might make an appearence? Maybe a cookie-related invasion?

[darksolitaire]

Any chance Sten might make an appearence? Maybe a cookie-related invasion?

Can we even assume that save files from previous games are used? Sten is either eaten by Darkspawn, current Arishok or anything in-between. They will probably write him off or at best give him very small presence, like they did with Morrigan's Old God child which may or may not exist.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

How much spoilery stuff can be discussed here without spoiler blocks? Inquisition's been out a while, but I know that I haven't completely played it yet (though I actively seek spoilers).

[Giggling Ghast]

Have you played Trespasser? That contains considerable spoilers about the origin of the Veil and the elven "gods."

[Kish]

Can we even assume that save files from previous games are used? Sten is either eaten by Darkspawn, current Arishok or anything in-between. They will probably write him off or at best give him very small presence, like they did with Morrigan's Old God child which may or may not exist.
To my knowledge, the sten is current arishok, unambiguously and nonoptionally; where does "he was eaten by darkspawn" come from?

(And if it's just a Dragon Age 1 epilogue which doesn't prevent the Iron Bull from talking about how the new arishok is one of those weird hornless qunari, you can do what you like but I'm personally tossing it in the Retconned Bin with Cullen going renegade and turning into a serial killer. How minor and possibly-nonexistent Cullen was after Dragon Age 1 is left as an exercise for the reader.)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Have you played Trespasser? That contains considerable spoilers about the origin of the Veil and the elven "gods."

No, but I've watched FluffyNinjaLlama's several videos on it. So I DO know the big secret.

[Bobby Baratheon]

I'm aware that he is (likely) the Arishok, but I'm hoping he could be a major player in the next game. Not a likely hope, as hopes go, but the Cubs did finally win so you never know :smalltongue:

[Dienekes]

I'm aware that he is (likely) the Arishok, but I'm hoping he could be a major player in the next game. Not a likely hope, as hopes go, but the Cubs did finally win so you never know :smalltongue:

Entirely unfounded guess: The Arishok is a big player in the same way the leader of the Krogan is a big player in ME3. He's important. There's a somewhat major quest about him. But he's written in a way that can be taken up by two people. One of whom is an awesome badass who is loved by players (or for Sten's case loved by some, hated by others, and tolerated by many) and the other is a total dingus.

[Kish]

I think the arishok formerly known as the sten may well be a major villain in Dragon Age 4. I think anyone who continues to hold out hope that now we'll get "actually qunari culture isn't horribly evil and someone can be fanatically loyal to it (and/or maintain that only certain people are people), without being a villain" is in for another dose of the disappointment the same belief led them to in Trespasser.

[Lethologica]

To my knowledge, the sten is current arishok, unambiguously and nonoptionally; where does "he was eaten by darkspawn" come from?

(And if it's just a Dragon Age 1 epilogue which doesn't prevent the Iron Bull from talking about how the new arishok is one of those weird hornless qunari, you can do what you like but I'm personally tossing it in the Retconned Bin with Cullen going renegade and turning into a serial killer. How minor and possibly-nonexistent Cullen was after Dragon Age 1 is left as an exercise for the reader.)
That's probably the outcome of leaving the sten in the cage. Not something they'd plan sequel plot points around.

[Dienekes]

I think the arishok formerly known as the sten may well be a major villain in Dragon Age 4. I think anyone who continues to hold out hope that now we'll get "actually qunari culture isn't horribly evil and someone can be fanatically loyal to it (and/or maintain that only certain people are people), without being a villain" is in for another dose of the disappointment the same belief led them to in Trespasser.

I'd be disappointed if he wasn't horribly lawful evil.

That said, I think the story can be done in a way that he can be an ally regardless.

After all, the setting is going to be Tevinter. The other place in Thedas that depicts certain people do not truly count as people. With a healthy dose of slavery and blood sacrifices.

If either the Tevinter or the Qunari start getting a coat of paint to make them look all friendly and nice, I'll boo Bioware myself.

[Inarius]

Entirely unfounded guess: The Arishok is a big player in the same way the leader of the Krogan is a big player in ME3. He's important. There's a somewhat major quest about him. But he's written in a way that can be taken up by two people. One of whom is an awesome badass who is loved by players (or for Sten's case loved by some, hated by others, and tolerated by many) and the other is a total dingus.

It would be even easier to do it that way for the Qunari considering everyones name is their job. Just make the stand in also be a hornless Sten like Sten is.

[factotum]

If either the Tevinter or the Qunari start getting a coat of paint to make them look all friendly and nice, I'll boo Bioware myself.

It's possible for individuals of a race or country to not reflect the country as a whole, as with Dorian Pavus in Inquisition, so who knows how Sten is these days? However, if he actually *is* the Arishok then he pretty much has to slavishly follow the Qun, at least on the surface, because otherwise he'd get deposed sharpish.

[Inarius]

It's possible for individuals of a race or country to not reflect the country as a whole, as with Dorian Pavus in Inquisition, so who knows how Sten is these days? However, if he actually *is* the Arishok then he pretty much has to slavishly follow the Qun, at least on the surface, because otherwise he'd get deposed sharpish.

Sure, but the Qun in general discourages that sort of behavior in its followers. Those who stray too far from the norm either get mentally reconditioned or leave and become Tal-Vashoth.

[darksolitaire]

To my knowledge, the sten is current arishok, unambiguously and nonoptionally; where does "he was eaten by darkspawn" come from?


That's probably the outcome of leaving the sten in the cage. Not something they'd plan sequel plot points around.

This. Unless you figure out that he broke out of his cage just as the darkspawn attacked, found his sword, scouted out the blight, single handedly fought his way trough half of Thedas and stole a ship so he could return and give his report to the Qunari just as the news of Arishok's death came back from Kirkwall.

[Dienekes]

This. Unless you figure out that he broke out of his cage just as the darkspawn attacked, found his sword, scouted out the blight, single handedly fought his way trough half of Thedas and stole a ship so he could return and give his report to the Qunari just as the news of Arishok's death came back from Kirkwall.

I think my main bro Sten totally could do all that. But would he? I don't think so, he was kinda set on suicide by darkspawn.

[Kish]

This. Unless you figure out that he broke out of his cage just as the darkspawn attacked, found his sword, scouted out the blight, single handedly fought his way trough half of Thedas and stole a ship so he could return and give his report to the Qunari just as the news of Arishok's death came back from Kirkwall.
You just quoted someone saying Bioware won't plan sequel plot points around "the sten never left the cage" being a serious possibility, said "This" without declaring an exception for that, and the rest of the post is still making a case that the sten isn't the guaranteed-Arishok based on that being a serious possibility.

[Giggling Ghast]

I'm certain the war with the qunari will inform the plot of DA4 but I don't think it will be a major focus, not unless they decide to hold off on Solas being the major antagonist for a theoretical DA5. He certainly wouldn't ally with them for his Evil Plan, whatever it may be.

As to whether Stenishok appears, they may decide that's an "either/or" situation. If you let Sten out, he's the Arishok. If not, some other qunari took the job, They've done that before with Tali/Mordin/Grunt/Legion/Garrus in Mass Effect and the Warden ally in DAI.

[darksolitaire]

You just quoted someone saying Bioware won't plan sequel plot points around "the sten never left the cage" being a serious possibility, said "This" without declaring an exception for that, and the rest of the post is still making a case that the sten isn't the guaranteed-Arishok based on that being a serious possibility.

...wat? :smallconfused:

edit: ok, I re-read what I quoted and I actually misunderstood it. Carry on.

[Cozzer]

My thoughts on the future (and possibly, ending) of the series:


My personal bet is that the final choice that the series is going towards is : more magic (Solas' option, maybe with the final MC doing things to make the transition less genocidal), less/no magic (Qunari option) and maybe a third choice to keep things more or less the same. And maybe a fourth, unpredictable choice, like something about the Titans.

I mean, in the end what makes Solas' plan evil isn't his goal, but what he's going to do to reach it. If you could remove the Veil... I don't know, gradually, or something that prevents the majority of people from dying, it wouldn't be automatically a bad thing.

On the other hand, strengthening the Veil wouldn't be an "automatically evil" choice. Sure, you lose magic, including healing magic and helpful magic in general, but you also lose demons and abominations.

It would be like the Mage-Templar conflict, just bigger.

[Giggling Ghast]

My thoughts on the future (and possibly, ending) of the series:


My personal bet is that the final choice that the series is going towards is : more magic (Solas' option, maybe with the final MC doing things to make the transition less genocidal), less/no magic (Qunari option) and maybe a third choice to keep things more or less the same. And maybe a fourth, unpredictable choice, like something about the Titans.

I mean, in the end what makes Solas' plan evil isn't his goal, but what he's going to do to reach it. If you could remove the Veil... I don't know, gradually, or something that prevents the majority of people from dying, it wouldn't be automatically a bad thing.

On the other hand, strengthening the Veil wouldn't be an "automatically evil" choice. Sure, you lose magic, including healing magic and helpful magic in general, but you also lose demons and abominations.

It would be like the Mage-Templar conflict, just bigger.


I'm not sure if Solas' plan is still to tear down the Veil. That was definitely his old plan, but the destruction of his foci might prevent him from doing so.

Keep in mind that his actual goal is the restoration of the elven civilization (and the eradication of all modern civilization). Tearing down the Veil was a means to accomplish that, but if that's no longer possible, he could be working on some other scheme.

[Cozzer]

@Jack


There's a line he says during the final dialogue with him in Trespasser that makes me think he's definitely still going to tear down the Veil, he just needs to find a new way to do it. He says that modern people are to him what Tranquils are to modern people.

This means that the Old World he wants isn't simply a world where the Elves have an empire, it's a world where magic is part of everyone and everything like it was during Arlathan. A world where lost marvels like the library you see during Trespasser are part of the everyday life. And so on.

I guess that now, after his orb has been destroyed, he's simply building his "army" so that he'll be ready to act whenever he finds a new plan. And I guess he'll find it just before the new game begins.

(Or he'll stay in the shadows, nudging things, for another game and his plan will start between DA4 and DA5, depending on how many other plots the authors want to tie up and in which order)

[Anteros]

It's been a while since I played so I don't remember clearly, but is there any reason to think that tearing down the veil is even a good thing for the spirits living beyond it? I don't remember anything to indicate that they are suffering or even unhappy over there.

I mean, I know Solas thinks so, but he's an idiot and hardly objective.


@Jack


There's a line he says during the final dialogue with him in Trespasser that makes me think he's definitely still going to tear down the Veil, he just needs to find a new way to do it. He says that modern people are to him what Tranquils are to modern people.

This means that the Old World he wants isn't simply a world where the Elves have an empire, it's a world where magic is part of everyone and everything like it was during Arlathan. A world where lost marvels like the library you see during Trespasser are part of the everyday life. And so on.

I guess that now, after his orb has been destroyed, he's simply building his "army" so that he'll be ready to act whenever he finds a new plan. And I guess he'll find it just before the new game begins.

(Or he'll stay in the shadows, nudging things, for another game and his plan will start between DA4 and DA5, depending on how many other plots the authors want to tie up and in which order)


Knowing Bioware, the most likely thing is that they'll ignore it during the main games and resolve it as part of a DLC.

[Giggling Ghast]

I take it you didn't play Trespasser, Anteros.

The Veil was created by Solas (ie. Fen'harel) in order to banish his fellow "gods" to the farthest reaches of the Fade. Thus, tearing down the Veil would be returning the world to its original state.

Modern Thedas would be utterly destroyed in the raw chaos, but Solas' plan was then to restore the ancient civilization of the elves using the energy of the Fade to rewrite reality.

[Anteros]

I take it you didn't play Trespasser, Anteros.

The Veil was created by Solas (ie. Fen'harel) in order to banish his fellow "gods" to the farthest reaches of the Fade. Thus, tearing down the Veil would be returning the world to its original state.

Modern Thedas would be utterly destroyed in the raw chaos, but Solas' plan was then to restore the ancient civilization of the elves using the energy of the Fade to rewrite reality.

I was talking about in the sense of whether ripping the fade is good for the spirits that live there or not. I don't give 2 craps about Solas or his plan.

[Giggling Ghast]

Well, the fourth game will probably have Solas as an antagonist, so ... sucks to be you, I guess?

[Metahuman1]

Hey, do they jack up the difficulty of the Fade Rift fights at random points to try and force the PC to do certain story related missions instead?




I'm working on a 2nd inquisitor, and I've got at least 3 now I swear it's doing this with.

[Kish]

That question seems to hinge on an unstated assumption. The rifts are neither random nor equal. If you're level 10 and the rift you want to close is producing level 15 enemies, you're probably not expected to be closing it yet, just like any other form of "the enemies here are level 15."

[Keltest]

That question seems to hinge on an unstated assumption. The rifts are neither random nor equal. If you're level 10 and the rift you want to close is producing level 15 enemies, you're probably not expected to be closing it yet, just like any other form of "the enemies here are level 15."

One of the few things I openly dislike about the game is their tendency to make high level areas available well before I could possibly be strong enough to actually do anything in them. I can appreciate a certain amount of open-world-ness, but when I'm level 4 and can only unlock like 3 maps, don't make one of them a level 12 map.

[Cozzer]

It is true that some rifts are randomly way more powerful than anything in the area. In the Hinterlands, for example, you'll probably find a few level 8 and level 12 rifts when you're about level 4/5, if you explore the area before doing major quests. These stronger rifts are usually in pretty remote areas and don't prevent you from doing quests, they're more of a "come back here later to close these rifts and 100% the zone" thing.

Except for that horrible, horrible level 12 rift that prevents you from finishing that stupid buffalo sidequest near the farms. That's annoying.

[Anteros]

Well, the fourth game will probably have Solas as an antagonist, so ... sucks to be you, I guess?

I don't know why murdering that idiot would mean it sucks to be me. I don't find his reasoning or his plan compelling or logical, but I don't have to agree with an antagonist.

I still don't necessarily believe that the next game will set up Solas as the antagonist. They were all set up to make Morrigan an antagonist with her god baby...and it just kind've went away. I'm not convinced they will treat Solas any differently, although I'm not convinced they won't either.

[Morty]

Morrigan's Old God baby may or may not exist, and may have been fathered by three different people. Solas' fate is much more constant.

[Keltest]

Morrigan's Old God baby may or may not exist, and may have been fathered by three different people. Solas' fate is much more constant.

Plus, you know, is pretty explicit in his desire to end the world.

[Kish]

Yeah, I saw speculation that the next game would be playing the Old God baby, but I don't know where Anteros was looking to see the idea that Morrigan with an Old God baby was a likely, much less guaranteed, future villain.

[Metahuman1]

That was one of them, there's another one in a stupid cave in the Hinterlands I'm dealing with, and one out in The Fallow Marsh that's keeping me form doing the stupid apostate killing quest and finishing with the explore all regions/explore all locations quests.



But having managed to level up some, I think I'll take another whack at the other two, since I did, FINALLY, manage to clear out the one by the farm. (Had to gain 3 levels AND find 3 purple weapons and a suit of purple armor AND upgrade the whole party stuff beyond what they had for there other slots, but I still did it.).


So, 2 other questions:

1: I'm about to go after recruiting the rebel mages at Redcliff after I clear the side quests out from there and take out the last couple of things in The Fallow Marsh (except for Memoirs of the Grey, cause, that stupid Deft Hands Fine Tools perk.).

What energy weakness do the opponents during that quest have? (It's gonna determine the mage I bring to the party.).

2: Which shops, if any, in Redcliff, The Hinterlands, Val Royoh (I know I spelled it wrong I'm on a phone posting.) or Haven will have higher tier weapons/armor Schematics for sale? Before I start that quest I'm gonna see about doing a gear upgrade.

[Keltest]

That was one of them, there's another one in a stupid cave in the Hinterlands I'm dealing with, and one out in The Fallow Marsh that's keeping me form doing the stupid apostate killing quest and finishing with the explore all regions/explore all locations quests.



But having managed to level up some, I think I'll take another whack at the other two, since I did, FINALLY, manage to clear out the one by the farm. (Had to gain 3 levels AND find 3 purple weapons and a suit of purple armor AND upgrade the whole party stuff beyond what they had for there other slots, but I still did it.).


So, 2 other questions:

1: I'm about to go after recruiting the rebel mages at Redcliff after I clear the side quests out from there and take out the last couple of things in The Fallow Marsh (except for Memoirs of the Grey, cause, that stupid Deft Hands Fine Tools perk.).

What energy weakness do the opponents during that quest have? (It's gonna determine the mage I bring to the party.).

2: Which shops, if any, in Redcliff, The Hinterlands, Val Royoh (I know I spelled it wrong I'm on a phone posting.) or Haven will have higher tier weapons/armor Schematics for sale? Before I start that quest I'm gonna see about doing a gear upgrade.

If you free the rebel mages you are forced to take Dorian in your party, and he is a mage. Since he gets the necromancer specialization, he should probably be a fire mage since it synergizes well. You fight lots of demons, who have spirit weakness (IIRC) and enemy fire mages who (again, I think) are weak to cold.

[Metahuman1]

Alright, Dorian synergies with Fire, and the bad guys are weak Vs. Spirit and Cold on that mission. Sounds like I should just buy a Respect Token and equip Dorian with Cold and Spirit, and then respec afterwords.



Anyway.

What about buying Schematics. Is there a shop or Merchant that specializes in that? Cause, I could really use the option to craft some better armor and a couple of better weapons and weapon augmentations last thing before I go in there.

[darksolitaire]

What about buying Schematics. Is there a shop or Merchant that specializes in that? Cause, I could really use the option to craft some better armor and a couple of better weapons and weapon augmentations last thing before I go in there.

Schematics are scattered around, and some merchants only open as you progress the main quests. If you have hoarded a large amount of money, Black Emporium is the place to check. Barring that, merchants at Val Royx have the best selection.

[Morty]

It's generally best to buy schematics in Black Emporium and forget about the rest, in my experience. It also helps to check the wiki for the best schematics in a given tier.

[Sajiri]

I have a potentially silly question (I really have no idea), but is a 2H reaver tank possible? Or just a reaver tank? I'm having the urge to play DA:I again, but I don't want to play the same class/specs I always do only to get bored halfway through, and I've never in any DA game tried playing warrior. I usually just leave the party members to the AI, and Iron Bull usually just dies but I believe thats just a result of the AI rather than his spec, while I never put much effort into building or bringing him with me anyway as I liked to keep an even amount of ranged and melee party members with me. Bull often didnt fit in to that so well.

Reaver spec does seem interesting to me and I obviously havent played with it much yet, and I want to try making my Inquisitor into the tank role for a change. Sword and Shield seems like the most obvious choice, but purely for aesthetics, I like 2H better. Just kinda looking for a fun class to play, I dont feel like playing mages again especially since I love all three mage party members and would bring all three every time with me if I could. I love playing assassin but done it in two full playthroughs now, so I feel like I really should try a warrior spec for a change.

[Cozzer]

Hmm... the important thing is to have skills that get aggro and give you armor (or whatever the grey bar is called), and these are available to all Fighters, I think.

It might take a while, but eventually you'll be able to craft weapons (or armors?) that give you armor with every hit you deal. I think it's one kind of masterwork ingredient that gives equipment this power. I crafted one of these for Iron Bull, he went from worst fighter ever to best fighter ever.

[darksolitaire]

Reaver tank is possible. In fact, to play a Reaver you need the tank abilities that create guard so that you can spam Dragon Rage. When your health gets low, just omnom Devour foes to heal.

[Giggling Ghast]

DAI's GOTY is super-cheap right now.

https://twitter.com/mike_laidlaw/status/812749962807283712

[MacGiolla]

So I just picked up Inquisition GOTY edition. I am thinking of playing as a Human Mage. Anything that I should know going in or something I should make sure not to miss early on?

For reference I have played Origins and some of DA 2, but never finished that one, but it has been quite a while and my memory of them is a bit fuzzy.

Don't want anything too spoilery but wouldn't mind build suggestions.

[Anteros]

Not that I remember. I don't think you can really miss anything. I will say that if you start to get bored in the first area don't be afraid to leave. You can go back.

[dariathalon]

Not too spoilery in terms of plot, but take Iron Bull when you go to kill your first dragon. A fun cut scene ensues.

[Anteros]

I'm pretty sure you get that cut scene as long as you take him to kill any dragon. It doesn't have to be the first one.

[Dienekes]

So I just picked up Inquisition GOTY edition. I am thinking of playing as a Human Mage. Anything that I should know going in or something I should make sure not to miss early on?

For reference I have played Origins and some of DA 2, but never finished that one, but it has been quite a while and my memory of them is a bit fuzzy.

Don't want anything too spoilery but wouldn't mind build suggestions.

The Hinterlands, is entirely an area about learning how to play the game. Once you know how to do that, leave. Forget all the pointless mini-quests, don't worry about some buggers missing buffalo or whatever, just leave. Your experience will be better for it.

I guess this is a slight spoiler, it's more of an anti-spoiler though.

Most of the collectibles don't do crap. You can safely ignore them, they're entirely pointless busy work to try and pad the game length. If you want to hear the songs or the dwarven legend things, they're on youtube, look them up there and save yourself pointless wandering.

[Giggling Ghast]

Many new players go to the first area (the Hinterlands) believing they MUST complete every quest before moving on.

In fact, the game is designed so that you will want to return to areas after you've gone up in levels. There's no need for your Level 4 ass to get pounded by demons while trying to close that Level 12 rift; just come back to it later.

Also, if you have the Trespasser DLC, go into the Trials section under Options and turn on Take It Slow. This halves your XP, which sounds bad, but there's a **** ton of side content in DAI and you will quickly overlevel.

[Keltest]

Many new players go to the first area (the Hinterlands) believing they MUST complete every quest before moving on.

In fact, the game is designed so that you will want to return to areas after you've gone up in levels. There's no need for your Level 4 ass to get pounded by demons while trying to close that Level 12 rift; just come back to it later.

Also, if you have the Trespasser DLC, go into the Trials section under Options and turn on Take It Slow. This halves your XP, which sounds bad, but there's a **** ton of side content in DAI and you will quickly overlevel.

Or you could use the trial which brings everything up to your level, minimum, so that you cant ever out level the content.

[Dienekes]

Many new players go to the first area (the Hinterlands) believing they MUST complete every quest before moving on.

In fact, the game is designed so that you will want to return to areas after you've gone up in levels. There's no need for your Level 4 ass to get pounded by demons while trying to close that Level 12 rift; just come back to it later.

Also, if you have the Trespasser DLC, go into the Trials section under Options and turn on Take It Slow. This halves your XP, which sounds bad, but there's a **** ton of side content in DAI and you will quickly overlevel.

While I'll agree with the first bit, get out of the Hinterlands. I don't have Trespasser, but I'd be wary of the Take It Slow option. Leveling in this game is almost entirely based around combat, and the base combat system isn't really all that engaging, at least not until you get 4-5 interesting, unique, and consistently useful abilities to play with, which can take awhile in some classes. Slowing down the time it takes to get to the fun part seems antithetical to enjoyment.

And while you will certainly overlevel if you try to do everything, you really, really don't need to try out every little side-quest. From my own experiences I'd say I enjoyed the game more the second time through where I just ignored a bunch of stuff that was pointless.

[Rynjin]

So, I bought this game when it came out but it was so utterly brokenly unplayable (how on earth do you **** up a AAA title so bad you FALL THROUGH THE TERRAIN IN THE TUTORIAL) I didn't touch it until someone recently assured me it had been fixed at some point. Starting my first playthrough now (sorta).

I've made two characters to get a feel for the game, taking them both up to level 7 or 8. A Dwarf Rogue (Dual Wield) and an Elf Mage.

With as little spoilers as possible, can anyone tell me:

A.) Whether the game has enough depth of choice to justify two playthroughs (will they give significantly different experiences with different dialogue and choices or is it a more standard diamond plot?)

B.) Whether being a mage enhances the game experience RP/story-wise like it did in Origins

C.) Whether Mages ever become remotely interesting to play (why is it with every sequel the available spell options becomes smaller and less interesting?). I already know basically what the specializations do, but not sure how that translates into play.

D.) Is DLC worth it? To purchase before finishing the game, or no? Basically are we looking at more "Return to Ostagar" or more "Awakening"? While it's on sale I may as well buy the GOTY edition if so since it's so much cheaper than just buying the add-ons.

Basically I want to play a mage for the extra story elements that may exist but man has it been boring. I've been having fun tele-ganking people with the Rogue a lot more, but this seems a game to play more for the narrative than the gameplay either way, for better and worse.

[Anteros]

So, I bought this game when it came out but it was so utterly brokenly unplayable (how on earth do you **** up a AAA title so bad you FALL THROUGH THE TERRAIN IN THE TUTORIAL) I didn't touch it until someone recently assured me it had been fixed at some point. Starting my first playthrough now (sorta).

I've made two characters to get a feel for the game, taking them both up to level 7 or 8. A Dwarf Rogue (Dual Wield) and an Elf Mage.

With as little spoilers as possible, can anyone tell me:

A.) Whether the game has enough depth of choice to justify two playthroughs (will they give significantly different experiences with different dialogue and choices or is it a more standard diamond plot?)

B.) Whether being a mage enhances the game experience RP/story-wise like it did in Origins

C.) Whether Mages ever become remotely interesting to play (why is it with every sequel the available spell options becomes smaller and less interesting?). I already know basically what the specializations do, but not sure how that translates into play.

D.) Is DLC worth it? To purchase before finishing the game, or no? Basically are we looking at more "Return to Ostagar" or more "Awakening"?

A.) Probably not. There's basically only one major branch point in the entire story, and even then it's back to the main plot with little variation after it.

B.) I'd say no. It changes a few interactions with some of the characters, but nothing major.

C.) Not in my opinion, but some other people enjoy them.

D.) Probably yes, but not until after you beat the game.

[Dienekes]

A.) Whether the game has enough depth of choice to justify two playthroughs (will they give significantly different experiences with different dialogue and choices or is it a more standard diamond plot?)

There is actually a surprising amount, there is one rather major plot decision early on that shapes the encounter design of the rest of the game.


B.) Whether being a mage enhances the game experience RP/story-wise like it did in Origins

Only one that I know of, and it's niche.


C.) Whether Mages ever become remotely interesting to play (why is it with every sequel the available spell options becomes smaller and less interesting?). I already know basically what the specializations do, but not sure how that translates into play.

Totally honest, I don't think the mechanics of combat in this game are all that fun. Origins at least had the tactics mode so you can plot it out like a turn by turn tactics generator, but they've shifted toward "action combat" unfortunately, the only class that can actually pull that off in an interesting and fluid way is the dual weapons rogue. For the rest of them, they seem to be under the mistaken impression that throwing a bunch of light shows and have a lot of overemphasized spinning in the basic attack animations will trick the players into thinking there's more going on. Bioware just doesn't seem to want to take the leap to fully embrace the newer combat like they did making the transition from ME1 to ME2. So we're left with a game that plays like a WoW did when it was released and call it an action title.


D.) Is DLC worth it? To purchase before finishing the game, or no? Basically are we looking at more "Return to Ostagar" or more "Awakening"? While it's on sale I may as well buy the GOTY edition if so since it's so much cheaper than just buying the add-ons.

From a mathematical perspective? No. DLC rarely is. From a storytelling or worldbuilding perspective? Jaws of Hakkon is just another area, but one that is actually focused on the story it's trying to tell. Descent is a full out old school D&D dungeon crawl that also sheds a lot of light on the role of the ancient dwarves were and brings about a somewhat terrifying realization about the Darkspawn. Both of those can be done during the game, and are fine. Then there's Trespasser which is the secret hidden ending of the game. But instead of old games where the secret ending must be unlocked through gameplay in some way, you just have to buy it here.


Basically I want to play a mage for the extra story elements that may exist but man has it been boring. I've been having fun tele-ganking people with the Rogue a lot more, but this seems a game to play more for the narrative than the gameplay either way, for better and worse.

You can safely drop the Mage.

[Giggling Ghast]

Or you could use the trial which brings everything up to your level, minimum, so that you cant ever out level the content.

Problem is, the game caps out at Level 27. So even a moderately completionist playthrough where you do MOST things instead of ALL things will still have you hit the level cap pretty quick.

Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but I know that bugs some people.

[Giggling Ghast]

A.) Whether the game has enough depth of choice to justify two playthroughs (will they give significantly different experiences with different dialogue and choices or is it a more standard diamond plot?)

B.) Whether being a mage enhances the game experience RP/story-wise like it did in Origins

I would say yes if you're willing to commit to making some different choices in a second playthrough. Play a different race, a different class, pick some different perks.

As to the second question ... nah, not really. Race is more of an important choice than class. A Dalish or qunari mage has the same background as a Dalish/Qunari rogue or warrior.


D.) Is DLC worth it? To purchase before finishing the game, or no? Basically are we looking at more "Return to Ostagar" or more "Awakening"? While it's on sale I may as well buy the GOTY edition if so since it's so much cheaper than just buying the add-ons.

I would at least buy Trespasser. If you have Trespasser downloaded earlier, you get fun new prizes at the war table and can access the Trials, which you can use to increase the difficulty of the game, earn fun goodies, etc.

As I've indicated, I use the Take It Slow Trial to counter the excessive XP the game throws at you.

[Sajiri]

So, I bought this game when it came out but it was so utterly brokenly unplayable (how on earth do you **** up a AAA title so bad you FALL THROUGH THE TERRAIN IN THE TUTORIAL) I didn't touch it until someone recently assured me it had been fixed at some point. Starting my first playthrough now (sorta).

I've made two characters to get a feel for the game, taking them both up to level 7 or 8. A Dwarf Rogue (Dual Wield) and an Elf Mage.

With as little spoilers as possible, can anyone tell me:

A.) Whether the game has enough depth of choice to justify two playthroughs (will they give significantly different experiences with different dialogue and choices or is it a more standard diamond plot?)

B.) Whether being a mage enhances the game experience RP/story-wise like it did in Origins

C.) Whether Mages ever become remotely interesting to play (why is it with every sequel the available spell options becomes smaller and less interesting?). I already know basically what the specializations do, but not sure how that translates into play.

D.) Is DLC worth it? To purchase before finishing the game, or no? Basically are we looking at more "Return to Ostagar" or more "Awakening"? While it's on sale I may as well buy the GOTY edition if so since it's so much cheaper than just buying the add-ons.

Basically I want to play a mage for the extra story elements that may exist but man has it been boring. I've been having fun tele-ganking people with the Rogue a lot more, but this seems a game to play more for the narrative than the gameplay either way, for better and worse.

A) I think this depends on what's important to you. There is really only ONE major choice (It will be an entirely seperate mission/quest depending on which you choose), and there will be various quests that follow up after it. If you're into the romances, well there's choices for other playthroughs. There are some minor roleplaying/dialogue options you can choose. You can play the different classes as well, but I suppose if you arent into the combat that wouldnt matter

B) Well...you're the inquisitor, and you're a mage, thats probably hard for some to swallow. There are some unique dialogues that come up based on that but it's not much at all. Some NPCs will comment differently on your class and spec.

C) Its been a long time since I played a mage, and I always went knight-enchanter. That spec was bother fun as hell and...really boring. I felt like it had some fun mechanics and was a blast at first, but it did get kinda boring/easy mode after a while (Unless it was nerfed in some way it was basically unkillable, so even soloing dragons wasnt much of a threat). Personally I found dual wield assassin super fun, and you could use the respec item to switch between bow and dualwielding to mix things up occasionally if you wanted.

D) If you get invested in the story, Trespasser is absolutely worth it. You dont really need it until you've finished the main story though. Jaws of Hakkon had story, it was enjoyable to me. Descent I never played so I cant comment on it. Maybe I'll look into getting that sometime

[Keltest]

So, I bought this game when it came out but it was so utterly brokenly unplayable (how on earth do you **** up a AAA title so bad you FALL THROUGH THE TERRAIN IN THE TUTORIAL) I didn't touch it until someone recently assured me it had been fixed at some point. Starting my first playthrough now (sorta).

I've made two characters to get a feel for the game, taking them both up to level 7 or 8. A Dwarf Rogue (Dual Wield) and an Elf Mage.

With as little spoilers as possible, can anyone tell me:

A.) Whether the game has enough depth of choice to justify two playthroughs (will they give significantly different experiences with different dialogue and choices or is it a more standard diamond plot?)

B.) Whether being a mage enhances the game experience RP/story-wise like it did in Origins

C.) Whether Mages ever become remotely interesting to play (why is it with every sequel the available spell options becomes smaller and less interesting?). I already know basically what the specializations do, but not sure how that translates into play.

D.) Is DLC worth it? To purchase before finishing the game, or no? Basically are we looking at more "Return to Ostagar" or more "Awakening"? While it's on sale I may as well buy the GOTY edition if so since it's so much cheaper than just buying the add-ons.

Basically I want to play a mage for the extra story elements that may exist but man has it been boring. I've been having fun tele-ganking people with the Rogue a lot more, but this seems a game to play more for the narrative than the gameplay either way, for better and worse.

In my opinion
A: yes. There are a few mutually exclusive options that affect how your companions think of you, which allies the inquisition gets, and what missions are available.

B: Yes. People will react differently if you are a mage, it opens up unique dialogue options (in addition to your racial dialogues) and at one point actually makes the game harder because you have to do some court intrigue.

C: that depends on the mage build I think. I deeply enjoyed my "kill the crap out of them" fire mage necromancer. He did a lot of damage and had a very satisfying ability to blow things up. You can probably find a style that you like.

D: Its a mix of both. I only have trespasser, and you HAVE to finish the game before you can access the quests that come from it, but it also adds a bunch of extra skill improvements (which don't even cost any points if you have the existing one unlocked) and a bunch more items.

[Morty]

The amount of unique interaction you get as a mage is about on par with the previous games. You get extra dialogue now and then. Far more than warriors and rogues got, certainly. Playing a mage is... alright, I suppose. Inquisition's combat isn't too great in general, but mages aren't worse off than others. At least they can't solo everything with Storm of the Century.

Of the DLC, I'd say Descent and Trespasser are definitely worth it. Jaws of Hakkon are take it or leave it.

[Rynjin]

At least they can't solo everything with Storm of the Century.

Because I'm a hypocrite (because I hate that mages are the bestest in D&D), this is actually why I think DA:O did mages the best. There is all this talk about how mages are living artillery, so dangerous they need to be locked up and have the key thrown away, but the general populace will settle for "Imprisoned and watched over by armed guards who will kill them with barely a moment's thought" as a lesser alternative, even if they do grumble about it not being enough.

In DA:O this is borne out. You can cause firestorms (and blizzards and thunderstorms), throw explosive balls of fire, raise the dead, turn people into living bombs, cause the blood of everyone within a certain radius to explode out of every orifice they have, shove that blood back into them and hold them immobile while you slit their throat, summon clouds of poison and darkness, toss on enough passive buffs to wade through an army unscathed while looking like a vengeful ghost, and generally all around creep out or **** up anyone within your line of sight.

In Dragon Age 2, it's a bit more limited but you can still toss fireballs, freeze people, turn them to stone, paralyze, terrify, or induce sleep in them, turn them into a living bomb, and eat their damned souls for a slight mana top up.

In Inquisition you can deal fire, ice, or lightning damage to a single or very limited number of multiple targets. Yaaaaaaay. The spell I come closest to having fun with is Ice Mine.

I tried to justify this by saying my mage was self-taught. That explains why he sucks ass compared to the Warden.

[Kish]

Yes, I agree. Balance is sometimes valuable, but if they're going to push "this class is way better than the others," I prefer for the mechanics to bear that out.

[Keltest]

Overall, I think ive managed to push out the most raw damage as a mage, but I had to give up pretty much all other utility they provide to do so. I could have played a rogue and done about as well at what I did, though admittedly it wouldn't have been nearly as flashy.

But man is it satisfying pointing and making an area blow up.

[Rynjin]

Where are the blow stuff up powers? The only true AoEs I've seen are Ice Mine and Blizzard.

[Dienekes]

Yes, I agree. Balance is sometimes valuable, but if they're going to push "this class is way better than the others," I prefer for the mechanics to bear that out.

Well, there is a way to get around that, if the powerful magics are slower and more complicated the argument could be made that they're still powerful but that doesn't come into play in normal combat.

Of course Bioware hasn't done that. In the games enemy mages just sort of randomly and easily send out insanely powerful magic at a moments notice if it works for the boss fight.

Honestly though while I think balance should be given more than a nod, it would work if the classes were more focused. Show that mages are artillery that can take down a room of mooks/normal people but not also amazing tanks, or amazing single target dps. That even lets the setting make sense that trained Templars have a chance against most mages. Leave that to the others. Mages in Origin were problematic because their AOE was strong enough to kill everything boss and mook and they had a prestige class that also let them tank.

But I'll say the real problem, as I see it, is that Origin had a very interesting system of spell combos that created a decent deal of depth like setting Grease on fire and so on (at least until people realized Storm of the Century cleared out every room). But instead of focusing on that, and maybe adding it to the other classes in their own combos and things to discover they neutered the system with cross-class combos that don't really have much an interesting effect except just a bit more damage.

[Morty]

If your idea of fun is for mages to blow everything up while other party members serve as decoration, I suppose Origins is best. This is not my idea of fun, so I'm glad the other games toned it way down. This is largely because mages aren't my first choice of protagonists, and I do prefer it when my character isn't decoration.

Now, to be fair, Inquisition's mages do feel constrained and unimpressive. But if the alternative is their status in Origins, I'd gladly take Inquisition. The ideal would be a solution where mages are impressive but not overpowered - but Bioware can't or won't give us that. They seemed to be getting close in DA2, but went in a completely different direction in Inquisition.

[Keltest]

Where are the blow stuff up powers? The only true AoEs I've seen are Ice Mine and Blizzard.

Fire Mine and other fire skills.

Also, mobs in general have higher health in inquisiton

[Anteros]

From a gameplay perspective you can't make mages vastly more powerful without alienating a huge portion of your customer base.

From a story perspective you can justify the equal power fairly easy. The fact that your inquisitor or party members can pick up a sword and go toe to toe with a mage makes them the exception rather than the rule. Any mage can become immensely dangerous to the entire population with one slip-up. It takes a lifetime of training, combined with a generational talent to be that dangerous with a sword/bow/etc.

[Rynjin]

The solution (as in most games) is to raise up the other options, and then slightly drop the one that is too good. Origins had the problem of the mage being OP for a lot of the content, the Warrior being basically useless as a PC, and the Rogue being there to pick locks and not much else.

DA2, for all the **** it gets, did the best I think. Warriors were still eh but Rogues were fun as hell and mage were still pretty versatile without being able to just drop the SotC and end high dragons in 2 minutes flat.

Hopefully a hypothetical fourth game does a better job of making mages fun and versatile again while keeping the other classes balanced.

Interestingly, Rogues make better mages than mages all in all. THEY are the ones that can do DoT, clouds of gas, and chuck AoEs like nobody's business with grenades and such.

From a story perspective, that still makes no sense since in previous games mages were again show doing things besides barriers/healing and elemental damage.

I want my Walking Bomb back, man.

[Anteros]

The solution (as in most games) is to raise up the other options, and then slightly drop the one that is too good. Origins had the problem of the mage being OP for a lot of the content, the Warrior being basically useless as a PC, and the Rogue being there to pick locks and not much else.

DA2, for all the **** it gets, did the best I think. Warriors were still eh but Rogues were fun as hell and mage were still pretty versatile without being able to just drop the SotC and end high dragons in 2 minutes flat.

Hopefully a hypothetical fourth game does a better job of making mages fun and versatile again while keeping the other classes balanced.

Interestingly, Rogues make better mages than mages all in all. THEY are the ones that can do DoT, clouds of gas, and chuck AoEs like nobody's business with grenades and such.

From a story perspective, that still makes no sense since in previous games mages were again show doing things besides barriers/healing and elemental damage.

I want my Walking Bomb back, man.

I never felt like my dual wield warrior, or rogues were useless in Origins. Not as powerful as a mage, but still the strongest party member. Shield and 2-hand warriors were pretty lame though.

I enjoyed rogue in DAII also, but it felt like the story almost pigeon-holed you into being a mage.

Inquisition is too far the other way. The rogue class is way better than everything else.

[Morty]

The problem with the abilities DA2 and Inquisition gives warriors/rogues is that while they're cool to use, and much better than the anaemic swinging of Origins, they create a disconnect. The writing treats non-mages as having roughly realistic capabilities without augmentation (like dragon blood, lyrium, magic items etc.), and yet here they are, flash-stepping around and making cracks in the ground. Well, the cracks in the ground are also due to people demanding that two-handed weapons swing like traffic signs. But I digress.

At the end of the day, BioWare wrote themselves into a bit of a corner. On the one hand, mages' being extremely dangerous is one of the core conflict. But the games' tactical portion is a typical real-time RPGs, with the warrior/rogue/mage trio, which is as annoying as it is persistent. Anteros is probably right in that the best answer is to say that it takes a lot of skill and luck for non-mages to go toe to toe with mages, unless you're a templar. And I agree that DA2 got the closest, by giving mages a niche that didn't invalidate the other classes. Mages have utility that warriors and rogues can't match. Let them do that, while the Muggles get the job of straight-up greasing enemies.

Besides, mages being dangerous need not mean that they excel in the kind of combat the games portray. There's a lot of things they can do to wreak havoc that don't boil down to throwing fireballs.

[Anteros]

Isn't the main reason that mages are treated as being so dangerous that they can slip up and kill everyone around them on accident anyway?

It's not necessarily that they are individually more powerful (although they mostly are) it's that one accident and your entire village is full of demons.

[Keltest]

Isn't the main reason that mages are treated as being so dangerous that they can slip up and kill everyone around them on accident anyway?

It's not necessarily that they are individually more powerful (although they mostly are) it's that one accident and your entire village is full of demons.

That's part of it, but the whole "can set things on fire by looking at them" contributes as well.

[Giggling Ghast]

Mages do have access to abilities that they just can't give the protagonist for balance reasons. Summoning demons, using blood magic for mind control, time magic, etc.

[Rynjin]

Mages do have access to abilities that they just can't give the protagonist for balance reasons. Summoning demons, using blood magic for mind control, time magic, etc.

There are plenty of games that balance summoning and mind control as combat abilities. Time magic, admittedly, is only really balanced when it's the focus, at least as far as large scale stuff goes.

Of course as far as I've gotten into Inquisition a slow time field seems very balanced, or at least it was when that one Rift used it. You slow down a lot. Good tactical option, keep warriors separated from their charges. Too bad I can't use it.

And, as Inquisition shows, demons are cannon fodder now anyway. You're better off summoning a spider than a shade.

[Aeson]

using blood magic for mind control
They did give the player's Blood Mages that one in Origins, though only for in-combat use.


Isn't the main reason that mages are treated as being so dangerous that they can slip up and kill everyone around them on accident anyway?

It's not necessarily that they are individually more powerful (although they mostly are) it's that one accident and your entire village is full of demons.
Personally, I think that the main reason why mages are regarded as being so dangerous within the games has less to do with the danger that the mages actually pose to society than with selling the idea that the Chantry is an organization which has its roots in a rebellion against a magocracy which gave mages way too much power. There are other systems in the setting which appear to do about as well as the main Chantry's system at preventing mages from summoning hordes of demons or getting turned into crazed abominations - there's the Qunari system, which seems to be further towards the mage-oppressing extreme; there's the modern and old Tevinter Imperium's systems, which are more or less at the opposite extreme from the main Chantry and Qunari systems; and there's the Dalish, Rivaini, and Chasind systems, which, while not really explored in any great detail within the games, seem to form something of a middle ground between the two extremes.

For that matter, there's at least circumstantial evidence that the Chantry system may actually make the problem of mages being a danger to society worse. Between the suggestion that Fade spirits are at least in part shaped by the expectations of those who encounter them and the indication that Fade spirits grow in power the more widespread and powerful the emotions/ideals/concepts embodied by the spirit are, the widespread fear of mages and the fear and resentment in mages engendered by the Chantry's system cannot be a good thing. On top of that, there's the issue that the Chantry's system seems to be in such a poor state that a not insignificant number of mages within or affected by the system are willing to pursue dangerous or forbidden avenues of magic and go to extremes to escape from the system, remain free of the system, or even just to lash out against others within the system who they regard as being their oppressors or as too closely associated with their oppressors, with results which can be seen in the events at the Circle Tower in DAO, in events throughout DA2, and in the mage rebellion between DA2 and DAI.

[Dienekes]

They did give the player's Blood Mages that one in Origins, though only for in-combat use.


Personally, I think that the main reason why mages are regarded as being so dangerous within the games has less to do with the danger that the mages actually pose to society than with selling the idea that the Chantry is an organization which has its roots in a rebellion against a magocracy which gave mages way too much power. There are other systems in the setting which appear to do about as well as the main Chantry's system at preventing mages from summoning hordes of demons or getting turned into crazed abominations - there's the Qunari system, which seems to be further towards the mage-oppressing extreme; there's the modern and old Tevinter Imperium's systems, which are more or less at the opposite extreme from the main Chantry and Qunari systems; and there's the Dalish, Rivaini, and Chasind systems, which, while not really explored in any great detail within the games, seem to form something of a middle ground between the two extremes.

For that matter, there's at least circumstantial evidence that the Chantry system may actually make the problem of mages being a danger to society worse. Between the suggestion that Fade spirits are at least in part shaped by the expectations of those who encounter them and the indication that Fade spirits grow in power the more widespread and powerful the emotions/ideals/concepts embodied by the spirit are, the widespread fear of mages and the fear and resentment in mages engendered by the Chantry's system cannot be a good thing. On top of that, there's the issue that the Chantry's system seems to be in such a poor state that a not insignificant number of mages within or affected by the system are willing to pursue dangerous or forbidden avenues of magic and go to extremes to escape from the system, remain free of the system, or even just to lash out against others within the system who they regard as being their oppressors or as too closely associated with their oppressors, with results which can be seen in the events at the Circle Tower in DAO, in events throughout DA2, and in the mage rebellion between DA2 and DAI.

Here's the thing. With the exception of the Chantry, Dwarf, and Qunari run territories the leading power is always mages. Tevinter is still currently a magocracy that has an underground blood slave ring. The old Tevinter Empire was even worse. The old Elven empire was possibly the worst one of all. And the current elves are still run by their mages, they just got continuously beat down by Chantry forces and the humans. And the barbarian people have the implications that their old gods were themselves more powerful super mages. In Dragon Age lore universe mages appear to be the base assumption of hegemonic power. Unless systems are put in place to prevent that outcome. The most efficient at preventing it seems to be the Qun. With the downside of being the most horribly barbaric thing ever. The other is the Chantry which is still terrible but at least isn't the Qun. But on the plus side created a non-mage run society for hundreds of years.

Of course you can argue, quite easily that the average mage is nowhere near as powerful as the super mages like Flemeth and the Magisters. The normal mages may not be that huge a problem except for demonic possession. But the super mages most certainly are.

[Giggling Ghast]

They did give the player's Blood Mages that one in Origins, though only for in-combat use.

Indeed, but there's blood magic and then there's BLOOD MAGIC - demon summoning, ritual sacrifice, necromancy and all that jazz.

[Giggling Ghast]

Of course as far as I've gotten into Inquisition a slow time field seems very balanced, or at least it was when that one Rift used it. You slow down a lot. Good tactical option, keep warriors separated from their charges. Too bad I can't use it.

The Still Ruins represent a catastrophic failure of Tevinter's time magic experiments. Were it not for one researcher, the whole continent might have been frozen.

[Keltest]

The Still Ruins represent a catastrophic failure of Tevinter's time magic experiments. Were it not for one researcher, the whole continent might have been frozen.

By comparison, you can commission the Tevinter mage responsible to research that time magic for more practical and safe purposes, and the end result is... a cooldown amulet. Not even a special one, just a generic item, albeit a fairly useful one at that point in the game.

[Giggling Ghast]

In fairness, Alexius' time travel was only possible because of the Breach. That's why Corypheus couldn't go back to before the Conclave and change events; time travel was only possible within the timeline of the Breach.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Having just got a new computer, I am attempting to reinstall Dragon Age: Origins, and for some reason I can't access the 1.05 Patch I need to get the DLC installed. Every time I click on it, it thinks for a bit and then the connection times out. Am I doing something wrong here? :smallconfused:

[Inarius]

Having just got a new computer, I am attempting to reinstall Dragon Age: Origins, and for some reason I can't access the 1.05 Patch I need to get the DLC installed. Every time I click on it, it thinks for a bit and then the connection times out. Am I doing something wrong here? :smallconfused:

Are you installing the patch manually, using the old launcher that it used to come with, or are you using the Origin service to do it? If its the first option the patch you downloaded is probably bad so redownload it, if its the second option its probably because they don't support the launcher anymore so you'll either have to find the manual download for the patch or add your cd key to Origin and use that option.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The former. It keeps claiming the connection timed out. If I add my CD key to Origin will I lose all my Achievements that I had before Origin was a thing?

[Inarius]

The former. It keeps claiming the connection timed out. If I add my CD key to Origin will I lose all my Achievements that I had before Origin was a thing?

They did carry over for me because they were tied to my Bioware account which functions as an Origin/EA account now. The biggest issue I had when I did it was only some of the DLC carried over properly to my origin account. I had to go back to the old Bioware site and manually download and install the DLCs that didn't show up for Origin to recognize that I own them.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So I should put it in Origin, and then it should recognize the DLC I've bought, and I can just go and manually download the ones I've earned through promos and stuff? Last time I tried to install it on this new computer it was all going to the C: drive instead of D: drive, which meant it was taking up all the memory and some of the DLC wasn't downloading properly, and it needed the 1.05 patch to install.

[Giggling Ghast]

Small bit of news for XBox gamers - DAO is now backwards compatible for the XBoxOne!

https://twitter.com/majornelson/status/818865388465377287

[Giggling Ghast]

Sorry for the double post, but if you want to hear a little bit more about the cancelled DA2 expansion, creative director Mike Laidlaw unloaded in a tweet thread that begins here (https://twitter.com/Mike_Laidlaw/status/819368281052213248). I'll post some excerpts, leaving out some stuff where he talks about T-shirts and marketing.


Okay, folks have some questions about the Exalted March cancelled expansion for DA2. So ...

First off? Why did we cancel it? Easy to assume it was "the reaction" to DA2, but not so! It was the move to Frostbite.

We had an opportunity to do so at the same time, but knew as it would be the first time that engine did "RPG stuff" we knew it would be hard.

As most everything in making games, it certainly was challenging. Great engine, but took tons of time. Had we tried to do both Exalted March and the Frostbite transition, both would have suffered a lot, especially from lack of engineering folks.

So Mark Darrah made the call to stop development on EM and go all in on what would become DAI.

So anyway! Exalted March didn't make it too far past concept. The idea, however, was that it followed the red lyrium chicanery of DA2 with the Chantry becoming VERY UPSET while various aspects of the qunari started to make moves on the turbulent Free Marches.

And it fell to Hawke to stop things from going to hell (again) while working with Starkhaven and the pirates of the Felicisima Armada. (The Armada missions would be based at the island of Estwatch.)

Beyond that, there were some really interesting stories to tell, and a chance to learn more about Sebastian's family.

But as it stood, I think shutting it down was the right call to focus on the engine change.


Me, I'm just sad I never got to kill Varric. *wistful sigh*

[Morty]

I've never actually heard about the cancelled expansion. It sounds like the kind of thing that happens all the time in game development.

[Inarius]

Interesting to know more about that expansion. I had always assumed it was mostly due to sales, but it being cancelled because of an engine change makes sense as well. Also it sounds like it wasn't very far along in development anyway, though I do have to say dealing with the Armada and going to Estwatch sounds like it could of been fun.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, so, I'm playing through with a new inquisitor, and I'm trying to romance Sera.


I say trying cause for the life of me I can NOT seem to get it to actually let me make headway.


Anyway, last night I did Through the Abyss or whatever the quest is called. The one were you get dropped into the fade for the last leg and then decide the fate of the Grey Wardens.

And I notice for some reason it wasn't giving me a physical indication of what Sera's Approval improvements were, and I KNOW some of those choices should have brought them. And when I came back to talk to her, I did get a cut scene, but once again, no improvement in her approval, and she is STILL freaking telling me she wants to travel around more and get to know me better when I try to get a relationship actually going.

Which is starting to drive me a bit crazy.


Is it possible the game is bugging and not tallying her approval, and if so, how do I fix it? I'm on PS4 if it helps.

[Keltest]

Ok, so, I'm playing through with a new inquisitor, and I'm trying to romance Sera.


I say trying cause for the life of me I can NOT seem to get it to actually let me make headway.


Anyway, last night I did Through the Abyss or whatever the quest is called. The one were you get dropped into the fade for the last leg and then decide the fate of the Grey Wardens.

And I notice for some reason it wasn't giving me a physical indication of what Sera's Approval improvements were, and I KNOW some of those choices should have brought them. And when I came back to talk to her, I did get a cut scene, but once again, no improvement in her approval, and she is STILL freaking telling me she wants to travel around more and get to know me better when I try to get a relationship actually going.

Which is starting to drive me a bit crazy.


Is it possible the game is bugging and not tallying her approval, and if so, how do I fix it? I'm on PS4 if it helps.

No, that's normal. Are you an elf, by chance? Elves actually get less approval from sera, while qunari get more.

I think killing dragons gets lots of Sera approval. Theres one in the hinterlands that you can cheese to death with a mage or archer, even if you aren't well equipped to attack it yet.

[Dienekes]

Ok, so, I'm playing through with a new inquisitor, and I'm trying to romance Sera.


I say trying cause for the life of me I can NOT seem to get it to actually let me make headway.


Anyway, last night I did Through the Abyss or whatever the quest is called. The one were you get dropped into the fade for the last leg and then decide the fate of the Grey Wardens.

And I notice for some reason it wasn't giving me a physical indication of what Sera's Approval improvements were, and I KNOW some of those choices should have brought them. And when I came back to talk to her, I did get a cut scene, but once again, no improvement in her approval, and she is STILL freaking telling me she wants to travel around more and get to know me better when I try to get a relationship actually going.

Which is starting to drive me a bit crazy.


Is it possible the game is bugging and not tallying her approval, and if so, how do I fix it? I'm on PS4 if it helps.

I think I see the problem. You're trying to romance Sera.

[Rynjin]

I'm unclear how anyone can even stand holding a conversation with Sera, much less trying to start a relationship with her.

[Keltest]

I'm unclear how anyone can even stand holding a conversation with Sera, much less trying to start a relationship with her.

I think she's funny, and the amount of random nonsense you can do while romancing her is completely worth having to try and understand her words.

[Rodin]

I think she's funny, and the amount of random nonsense you can do while romancing her is completely worth having to try and understand her words.

I also found that being an elf adds a lot to her romance, since you have to balance loyalty to elven culture with her hatred of it. Fortunately my character wasn't particularly pious but it did lead to some serious arguments when I wouldn't back down on elven culture being a part of my heritage. It adds a lot of depth to Sera that you don't normally see.

[Anteros]

Ok, so, I'm playing through with a new inquisitor, and I'm trying to romance Sera.


I say trying cause for the life of me I can NOT seem to get it to actually let me make headway.


Anyway, last night I did Through the Abyss or whatever the quest is called. The one were you get dropped into the fade for the last leg and then decide the fate of the Grey Wardens.

And I notice for some reason it wasn't giving me a physical indication of what Sera's Approval improvements were, and I KNOW some of those choices should have brought them. And when I came back to talk to her, I did get a cut scene, but once again, no improvement in her approval, and she is STILL freaking telling me she wants to travel around more and get to know me better when I try to get a relationship actually going.

Which is starting to drive me a bit crazy.


Is it possible the game is bugging and not tallying her approval, and if so, how do I fix it? I'm on PS4 if it helps.

In fairness, I imagine that trying to date Sera would be incredibly frustrating and go nowhere anyway, so you're probably getting the most realistic depiction possible.

[Giggling Ghast]

If you need to raise Sera's approval, there's actually a hidden way of doing that. Throughout the world, there are Red Jenny caches that can only be found if Sera's in your party. Locating them gives an Approval boost and I think you net a little loot. I've found them in Crestwood and the Emerald Graves, but there are apparently several caches in the Hinterlands.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Jenny_Cache

[Metahuman1]

Keltest : Playing a Quinari this time around.

Do you happen to know if she needs to be in the party for that dragon trick? Or can I just drop them, tell her about it after the fact and get the approval even if she wasn't involved in that particular fight?


Also, it's normal to do the Into The Abyss quest and make decisions that are listed in the Wiki as getting approval, have every other character get there listed approval except her, and then after the quest have the same problem in the post mission conversation AND have it happen when doing the 2 post quest judgment's even thought I made rulings that the wiki says she'll approve of (Sent the venatori mage to the Grey Wardens so they might pass judgment on him in the matter, and refused to sentence the knight lady on the grounds of refusing to judge a Grey Warden under the circumstance's.), and visited 3 Locals I hadn't checked out yet with Sera in the part after that quest, flirted with scout Harding every time, and got no further approval from that either?

Cause, that's what happened to me.


Dienekes : Funny.


Rynjin: She actually can be funny at times. Granted, not everything with her works, but some of it does work well. And the more I've seen of her, particularly when she's not funny, says to me "This is a severly emotionally damaged person that is in DESPRATE need of someone to throw her a metaphorical life preserver." Which I was interested in trying to explore. Assuming the game will freaking let me.


Keltest and Rodin: I think were on a similar page if not the same one. Also I liked her coming up in party banter with the idea of her standing on Iron Bulls horns to shoot things from high ground with mobility and a line of melee defense in party banter. I'm sorry, that was right out of a D&D party.


Anteros: Yeah, but if I wanted real life, I wouldn't be playing a game full of mages and dragons, would I?


Candle Jack: Ok, that also sounds helpful.

But again, just to clarify, as I have described it above, is this a bug, or does she just not display approval during that leg of the game and right afterword's?

[Giggling Ghast]

I can't say if it's a bug, though I have heard it is somewhat difficult to trigger Sera's romance. And I'm on the XBone, so I can't offer PS4-related advice. Sorry.

EDIT: Posing your question at the unofficial fan forum, their advice is to exhaust every possible dialogue option except the "You don't fit the Inquisition" option.

[Keltest]

Keltest : Playing a Quinari this time around.

Do you happen to know if she needs to be in the party for that dragon trick? Or can I just drop them, tell her about it after the fact and get the approval even if she wasn't involved in that particular fight?
Hmm. Google says I was mistaken about the dragon thing. It only works for Iron Bull. Strange, because it update her journal entry even if she isn't in the party.

[Douglas]

Also, it's normal to do the Into The Abyss quest and make decisions that are listed in the Wiki as getting approval, have every other character get there listed approval except her, and then after the quest have the same problem in the post mission conversation AND have it happen when doing the 2 post quest judgment's even thought I made rulings that the wiki says she'll approve of (Sent the venatori mage to the Grey Wardens so they might pass judgment on him in the matter, and refused to sentence the knight lady on the grounds of refusing to judge a Grey Warden under the circumstance's.), and visited 3 Locals I hadn't checked out yet with Sera in the part after that quest, flirted with scout Harding every time, and got no further approval from that either?

Cause, that's what happened to me.
Maybe you already have maximum approval with her, and there's some unrelated prerequisite you haven't met yet for the relationship?

[Driderman]

Ok, so, I'm playing through with a new inquisitor, and I'm trying to romance Sera.


I say trying cause for the life of me I can NOT seem to get it to actually let me make headway.


Anyway, last night I did Through the Abyss or whatever the quest is called. The one were you get dropped into the fade for the last leg and then decide the fate of the Grey Wardens.

And I notice for some reason it wasn't giving me a physical indication of what Sera's Approval improvements were, and I KNOW some of those choices should have brought them. And when I came back to talk to her, I did get a cut scene, but once again, no improvement in her approval, and she is STILL freaking telling me she wants to travel around more and get to know me better when I try to get a relationship actually going.

Which is starting to drive me a bit crazy.


Is it possible the game is bugging and not tallying her approval, and if so, how do I fix it? I'm on PS4 if it helps.

Just to get the obvious out of the way, you know Sera's into ladies, right?

[Keltest]

Just to get the obvious out of the way, you know Sera's into ladies, right?

If you try to romance Sera as a dude, she will tell you straight up its not going to happen because shes into ladies. There isn't any room for ambiguity there, to the point where the game just doesn't let you try it past the very light flirting stages.

[Metahuman1]

Candle Jack : Alright, I'll try that. Thought I was under the impression even if approval was high she didn't care to talk about that stuff much.


Keltest: Noted. And yes, I'm playing a Lady Inquisitor.

Driderman : See above.

Douglas: Ok, what other prerequisites are there? I've done every Red Jenny operation and her personal quest with that one noble that wanted to wipe out Red Jenny, to her satisfaction, and all the cut scenes (Cookies on the roof, after the Abyss, Pranks, the post naming of the inquisitor one.) That I can that I'm aware of with out doing the one mission about saving the empress at the winter palace.

Ideally, I'd like to have the relationship far enough under way that it's not in danger of termination if I don't do what she'd approve of, but I'd settle for just getting the Dance Scene, but I have to BE in a relationship with her for that to happen.

Is there something I've missed that isn't approval? Some Item I have to find or some quest I need to do first or something?

[Keltest]

Candle Jack : Alright, I'll try that. Thought I was under the impression even if approval was high she didn't care to talk about that stuff much.


Keltest: Noted. And yes, I'm playing a Lady Inquisitor.

Driderman : See above.

Douglas: Ok, what other prerequisites are there? I've done every Red Jenny operation and her personal quest with that one noble that wanted to wipe out Red Jenny, to her satisfaction, and all the cut scenes (Cookies on the roof, after the Abyss, Pranks, the post naming of the inquisitor one.) That I can that I'm aware of with out doing the one mission about saving the empress at the winter palace.

Ideally, I'd like to have the relationship far enough under way that it's not in danger of termination if I don't do what she'd approve of, but I'd settle for just getting the Dance Scene, but I have to BE in a relationship with her for that to happen.

Is there something I've missed that isn't approval? Some Item I have to find or some quest I need to do first or something?

I think you may need to do the political crap one too. Bring Sera along, she's a hoot, and unlocks some special content in that quest.

[Metahuman1]

Do I get the dance scene with her at least if I do even if I haven't started a relationship with her yet?

[Giggling Ghast]

Going by my experience with other LIs, you only get the dance if you're in the romance.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I apologize for repeating myself, but I'm still struggling with getting the 1.05 patch installed so I can reinstall my DLC for Origins/Awakening. If I port it to Origin like it's been suggested, will I lose my existing achievements from previous playthroughs? Will I have to start over in terms of repurchasing the DLC?

[Metahuman1]

Well, I at least go the romance to start finally. I did have to redo her chat options thought.


Anyway. Question: Reguarding The Winter Palace. If I force all three parties to accept public truce, do I still get to have the empress and the elf hook back up while I'm at it? If so, how?

[Cozzer]

I don't think you can. The only way to make them get back together is by sacrificing Gaspard. (Which might seem like a jerk move if you haven't read the prequel book that explains how the whole thing got started, which IS a jerk move on Bioware's part).

[Keltest]

I don't think you can. The only way to make them get back together is by sacrificing Gaspard. (Which might seem like a jerk move if you haven't read the prequel book that explains how the whole thing got started, which IS a jerk move on Bioware's part).

Also, it doesn't seem like it at the time, but come the epilogue, forcing them all to work together doesn't actually cause them all to be friends and work together, they just fake it to get you off their backs. I prefer reuniting Briala and Celene, because that actually does have a happy ending.

Unrelated, its possible to skip the final boss battle, but I encourage going through with it, both for the loot and the absolutely glorious judgment that you get afterward.

[Kish]

While there are many things it's fair to blame Bioware for, I'm puzzled by the existence of a nonzero number of people who needed a prequel book to get that Gaspard is rotten.

(And I say this without ever reading the book in question; I just read that and went "huh, what?")

[Landis963]

While there are many things it's fair to blame Bioware for, I'm puzzled by the existence of a nonzero number of people who needed a prequel book to get that Gaspard is rotten.

(And I say this without ever reading the book in question; I just read that and went "huh, what?")

I think it's less a question of Gaspard being rotten, and more a question of Celene being rotten. (Which if one only takes the quest into account is not entirely obvious)

[Keltest]

I think it's less a question of Gaspard being rotten, and more a question of Celene being rotten. (Which if one only takes the quest into account is not entirely obvious)

its Orlais. Theyre all rotten practically by definition. But just from the game, Gaspard comes off as being more reasonable than he otherwise actually is.

[Landis963]

its Orlais. Theyre all rotten practically by definition. But just from the game, Gaspard comes off as being more reasonable than he otherwise actually is.

That's true, but (for example) we are never shown in-game why Celene and Briala broke up. But if you read the prequel book you are shown in detail why they broke up, and why it would be a bad idea to give Celene a magic meal ticket away from all her problems. (Let's just say that Sera's angry bit of target practice afterwards is surprisingly on-point) That plus the dichotomy between Gaspard's game face and Gaspard's book face, and you see that there's a lot of subtext that the Inquisitor is missing, and hence why players might get the wrong idea about the three major players.

[Giggling Ghast]

Your options are:

1) Let Celene rule alone.
2) Re-unite Celene and Briala.
3) Let Gaspard rule alone.
4) Let Gaspard rule with Briala blackmailing him.
5) Force all three to work together.

I think the Winter Palace quest does a decent enough job of letting you interview all three potential rulers and decide which combination bests suits you.

[Metahuman1]

The idea I've got: Celene can keep the empire Stable, which, world kinda depends on, and will listen to Briealia on reforms. And reforms are something Orlies REALLY needs.

Gaspard, by rights, should have gotten the throne but didn't because freaking politics, and tends to be more Ye Old Line Officer. (Also, he's got Vivan amenable to him, Sera liking him, Cullen Liking him and Cassandra Liking him. Let me repeat that, Sera, Vivan, Cassandra and Cullen ALL agreed on something on there own. )

Briealia is a bit of a @(#!% but a potentially very useful one whom, as it happens, is trying to fix the second class citizen mess for the elves which is noble.



I played this mission once previously, wiped out Gaspard after stopping the assassination attempt with out combat to get the Belle of the Ball achievement.


I was thinking a public truce and getting Briealia and Celene back together would be preferable this play through.



Have I mentioned aside form getting a dance with your romance partner I LOATH this quest?

[Keltest]

The idea I've got: Celene can keep the empire Stable, which, world kinda depends on, and will listen to Briealia on reforms. And reforms are something Orlies REALLY needs.

Gaspard, by rights, should have gotten the throne but didn't because freaking politics, and tends to be more Ye Old Line Officer. (Also, he's got Vivan amenable to him, Sera liking him, Cullen Liking him and Cassandra Liking him. Let me repeat that, Sera, Vivan, Cassandra and Cullen ALL agreed on something on there own. )

Briealia is a bit of a @(#!% but a potentially very useful one whom, as it happens, is trying to fix the second class citizen mess for the elves which is noble.



I played this mission once previously, wiped out Gaspard after stopping the assassination attempt with out combat to get the Belle of the Ball achievement.


I was thinking a public truce and getting Briealia and Celene back together would be preferable this play through.



Have I mentioned aside form getting a dance with your romance partner I LOATH this quest?

I too loath it. Too much politics for me.

Anyway, from what ive seen, having Celene rule alone or with Briala are the best endings IMO. Gaspard is enough of a warmonger that I feel bad for Ferelden, and having Briala blackmail him is entirely too shady and unsustainable. Forcing them all to cooperate solves the war in the short term, but the political instability remains. If you reconcile Celene and Briala, they actually do reconcile and work together though, and if its just Celene, she is able to rule without interference, for whatever that ends up being worth.

[Morty]

I like Wicked Hearts, Wicked Eyes. There's an actual time limit that, while liberal, does give us an incentive not to screw around doing whatever we feel like. We need to pick our priorities and make a decently murky choice at the end.

I do wish the choice didn't involve hunting down some damn statuettes, but I guess they couldn't resist a scavenger hunt.

[Kish]

I like it, too.

And I'm chuckling at the implication that Cassandra, Vivienne, Sera, and Cullen all agreeing on something make that thing "yes" and not "oh Fade no."

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I too loath it. Too much politics for me.

Anyway, from what ive seen, having Celene rule alone or with Briala are the best endings IMO. Gaspard is enough of a warmonger that I feel bad for Ferelden, and having Briala blackmail him is entirely too shady and unsustainable. Forcing them all to cooperate solves the war in the short term, but the political instability remains. If you reconcile Celene and Briala, they actually do reconcile and work together though, and if its just Celene, she is able to rule without interference, for whatever that ends up being worth.
With all due respect, I disagree.
Celene may claim to care about Briala, heck she may actually care, but Masked Empire makes it abundantly clear that she cares MORE about her power than Briala. She was willing to let Briala's parents get killed. She was willing to let the elves of Halamshiral be massacred. She has routinely made it clear to Briala that even though she has the power to improve the lives of Orlais' elves, she won't do it because it doesn't benefit her. Both Gaspard and Celene are products of the Game, but "reconciling" Briala with Celene means asking Briala to just forgive Celene's actions so they're on an equal footing (it's like asking Alastair to forgive Loghain and accept him as a Gray Warden!), where at least with blackmailing Gaspard it's clear Briala is the one in charge, and in all honesty, the situation for elves isn't going to improve by elves asking nicely. All asking nicely got them was the alienages that nobles can rampage through when they're bored, and can be burned when it's politically expedient. I don't think Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts did much to show a "morally grey" setup, because Gaspard and Celene are human nobles, the epitome of privilege in Dragon Age society, and Briala is a city elf that has been oppressed by BOTH of them.

[Landis963]

With all due respect, I disagree.
Celene may claim to care about Briala, heck she may actually care, but Masked Empire makes it abundantly clear that she cares MORE about her power than Briala. She was willing to let Briala's parents get killed. She was willing to let the elves of Halamshiral be massacred. She has routinely made it clear to Briala that even though she has the power to improve the lives of Orlais' elves, she won't do it because it doesn't benefit her. Both Gaspard and Celene are products of the Game, but "reconciling" Briala with Celene means asking Briala to just forgive Celene's actions so they're on an equal footing (it's like asking Alastair to forgive Loghain and accept him as a Gray Warden!), where at least with blackmailing Gaspard it's clear Briala is the one in charge, and in all honesty, the situation for elves isn't going to improve by elves asking nicely. All asking nicely got them was the alienages that nobles can rampage through when they're bored, and can be burned when it's politically expedient. I don't think Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts did much to show a "morally grey" setup, because Gaspard and Celene are human nobles, the epitome of privilege in Dragon Age society, and Briala is a city elf that has been oppressed by BOTH of them.

Which brings us back to how "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts", while providing a good picture into Orlesian high society, doesn't do much to shed light on the failings of the main players (because they are myriad, even in Briala).

[Keltest]

With all due respect, I disagree.
Celene may claim to care about Briala, heck she may actually care, but Masked Empire makes it abundantly clear that she cares MORE about her power than Briala. She was willing to let Briala's parents get killed. She was willing to let the elves of Halamshiral be massacred. She has routinely made it clear to Briala that even though she has the power to improve the lives of Orlais' elves, she won't do it because it doesn't benefit her. Both Gaspard and Celene are products of the Game, but "reconciling" Briala with Celene means asking Briala to just forgive Celene's actions so they're on an equal footing (it's like asking Alastair to forgive Loghain and accept him as a Gray Warden!), where at least with blackmailing Gaspard it's clear Briala is the one in charge, and in all honesty, the situation for elves isn't going to improve by elves asking nicely. All asking nicely got them was the alienages that nobles can rampage through when they're bored, and can be burned when it's politically expedient. I don't think Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts did much to show a "morally grey" setup, because Gaspard and Celene are human nobles, the epitome of privilege in Dragon Age society, and Briala is a city elf that has been oppressed by BOTH of them.

Based on the endings given in the epilogue, reuniting Briala and Celene ends well for the empire as a whole, and is the only ending where multiple parties live that doesn't result in background machinations that will just cause the same scenario at a later date. From the information given to us, they actually do legitimately reconcile and work together, instead of sniping at each other while putting on a cooperative face like what happens if Celene rules alone and either other party lives, or if you force all three of them to work together.

I am curious though which ending you think is the best.

[Giggling Ghast]

Despite having read The Masked Empire, my resolution to WEWH still has Celene and Briala reconciled.

Yes, Celene did awful things and lied to Briala. But their relationship was still beneficial for the elves of Orlais, along with Orlesian culture in general. (The massacre at Halamshiral was only really the result of Gaspard's machinations.) If Briala can get over what Celene did to her, then I have no issue putting them back together.

Based on the information I was able to glean from the ball, Gaspard is an expansionist. As a proud Free Marcher, my character was not interested in seeing a return to the glory days of the Orlesian Empire. I also know he was willing to sneak troops into a peace conference to attempt a coup - a very dishonorable tactic that says a lot about his ruling style.

Yes, blackmailing Gaspard might be better in the short term for the elves, but I had concerns about the long-term viability of that arrangement even before ...

... Solas wrests control of the eluvians from Briala in Trespasser.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Based on the endings given in the epilogue, reuniting Briala and Celene ends well for the empire as a whole, and is the only ending where multiple parties live that doesn't result in background machinations that will just cause the same scenario at a later date. From the information given to us, they actually do legitimately reconcile and work together, instead of sniping at each other while putting on a cooperative face like what happens if Celene rules alone and either other party lives, or if you force all three of them to work together.

I am curious though which ending you think is the best.
I thought it was apparent: Let Celene fall and allow Briala to blackmail Gaspard.

[Keltest]

I thought it was apparent: Let Celene fall and allow Briala to blackmail Gaspard.

The one that ends with the nobility on the verge of open rebellion? That seems... less than ideal to me.

[Cozzer]

I've read The Masked Empire, and I think reconciling Celene and Briala is the best option too. Not just for them personally (the actual best option in my eyes would be to have them as allies but not lovers), but for the nation and the elves.


From my understanding of the book, I've always thought Celene isn't in love with her power in a... villain-y way. Rather, she knows that if she falls her successor will probably be way more closed-minded and conservative than her. I mean, look at it from her point of view. She can use her power to improve things for elves just a bit, or she can try to improve it a lot, fail, be replaced by Gaspard (or somebody like him), and then things become even worse. She's playing a bad card, but it's the best chard she has in the hand she's been dealt.

She was thrown into a crooked system she didn't create. She had to either play by the crooked rules of that system, or refuse to play and become irrelevant. I wouldn't judge her for choosing the first option.

[Kish]

I think reconciling Celene and Briala is the best option for Orlais, for the elves, and for Orlais' neighbors, and that's what matters, for my part. Celene alone is pragmatic enough that she won't start a war anytime soon, but will never help the elves or anyone else unless it benefits her, Briala alone (with Gaspard as her figurehead) will start another civil war in a hurry, and Gaspard is just plain disastrous in every way.

I also think most people here are seriously overidealizing at least one of Briala, Celene, and Gaspard. The answer to "who's good here?" or even "who's nonevil here?" is "ha ha ha ha HA HA HA." The question is which combination of the three rotten people at the center of the Imperial power struggle is least harmful to others.

[Anteros]

I just reconciled them because it was painted as the obvious best choice by the game. I had no outside knowledge of what ending it would give, or prequel books.

Bioware loves their formulaic romances. Reconciling a pair of jilted ex-lovers in a Bioware game is pretty much guaranteed to give good results. Especially when you consider the same sex aspect of it. I don't think Bioware is quite brave enough to portray that type of relationship in a negative light, considering how insane the internet can be at perceived slights (even if not intended).

[Giggling Ghast]

Maybe not anymore, but in DAO there was Branka and Marjolaine.

Ironically, I think David Gaider was more accepting of negative portrayals of gays than Patrick Weekes, who leans so far to the left he makes Gloria Steinem look like Ann Coulter.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The one that ends with the nobility on the verge of open rebellion? That seems... less than ideal to me.
They're Orlesian nobles. They don't think of anyone else as people, so they can abuse them without guilt. Why should their opinions matter? Besides, Briala can handle them.

[Landis963]

On a related note, why is it, do you think, that the Orlesians are the ones who want the Inquisition tamed during Trespasser, and the Fereldans want it gone? Seems to me like it should be the exact opposite way, with vestigial Fereldan gratitude leading them to want to keep the honorable and useful military force around, albeit after having relinquished some of that pesky inherent sovereignty, thanks very much, and underlying Orlesian anger at the Inquisition's meddling in their affairs leading them to want the pest wiped out like the irritant it is.

[Kish]

Why would the Orlesian monarch--whoever that is--be angry the Inquisitor meddled? "If it wasn't for the Inquisitor, I might be dead instead of on the throne! Disband the Inquisition!"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Yep. And as for Ferelden, Varric said it best: "We've got a large army. Wanna conquer Ferelden? All we'd have to do is look east."

By the way I'm still having trouble getting DA: O's patches since Bioware doesn't support the website with them anymore.

[Giggling Ghast]

Ferelden just got through a lengthy occupation by a foreign power and has been weakened by the Blight and the Mage-Templar war. I can see why they're not crazy about an organization with Orlesian ties occupying strongholds in their territory.

Meanwhile, Orlais has a lot of weight to throw around even after the civil war. If it came down to Inquisition vs. Orlais, I wouldn't put serious money on the Inquisition winning that conflict. Naturally, they're more inclined to see the Inquisition as a potential asset.

[Anteros]

They're Orlesian nobles. They don't think of anyone else as people, so they can abuse them without guilt. Why should their opinions matter? Besides, Briala can handle them.

Well, it matters because those little people you care so much about will be the first to suffer and suffer the longest if a rebellion does rear up. Especially if the rebellion itself is fueled with sentiment against them.


Maybe not anymore, but in DAO there was Branka and Marjolaine.

Ironically, I think David Gaider was more accepting of negative portrayals of gays than Patrick Weekes, who leans so far to the left he makes Gloria Steinem look like Ann Coulter.

That's true. It had slipped my mind. Just goes to show that I'm not always as right as I think I am.

[Landis963]

Why would the Orlesian monarch--whoever that is--be angry the Inquisitor meddled? "If it wasn't for the Inquisitor, I might be dead instead of on the throne! Disband the Inquisition!"

The three major players wouldn't be angry, no, but the nobility might be more than a little miffed that, say, an outsider waltzed in, foiled a plot that none of them saw coming, and killed the perp right there at the party. It would be an affront to their very nature as players of the Game. Also, this is 2 years hence - more than enough time for Orlais to become fickle. Indeed it doesn't feel like enough time for Ferelden to become as fickle (more so, even, considering they are calling for the Inquisition's dissolution).

[Kish]

Okay, given that you just said outright that the same amount of time is long enough that Orlais should turn against the Inquisition and not long enough for Ferelden to turn against the Inquisition, this is seeming like an assertion that Orlais should be more hostile to the PC's group than Ferelden by default, in-game events be damned. But residual allegiances from DA1 aside, the Inquisition has much closer ties to Orlais than to Ferelden--including having chosen its religious and secular rulers.

[Keltest]

They're Orlesian nobles. They don't think of anyone else as people, so they can abuse them without guilt. Why should their opinions matter? Besides, Briala can handle them.

Because civil war is bad? As Sera is wont to point out, they tend to trample the common people when they get it into their heads to fight about something, especially something petty.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

In all honesty, I'm trying in my latest playthroughs to act as if I don't know what's going to happen in the future. That means, when supplied with the information about what Celene has done, my Lavellan would basically go "Yeah, Briala deserves better, and I'm not going to shed any tears if this shem empress dies."

If I register my old copies of Origins and Awakening to Origin, will I be able to get my DLC back?

[Inarius]

In all honesty, I'm trying in my latest playthroughs to act as if I don't know what's going to happen in the future. That means, when supplied with the information about what Celene has done, my Lavellan would basically go "Yeah, Briala deserves better, and I'm not going to shed any tears if this shem empress dies."

If I register my old copies of Origins and Awakening to Origin, will I be able to get my DLC back?

You should, but if you don't go to http://social.bioware.com/. Login on the top right and click your login name. From there mouse over my games on the left, select your registered game content and you can download all of your the DLC from there. You can also see on that page if your Bioware account has an Origin ID (it should since all Bioware accounts were converted to Origin accounts). If it does your achievements will all carry over if you add the game to Origin using that account.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

You should, but if you don't go to http://social.bioware.com/. Login on the top right and click your login name. From there mouse over my games on the left, select your registered game content and you can download all of your the DLC from there. You can also see on that page if your Bioware account has an Origin ID (it should since all Bioware accounts were converted to Origin accounts). If it does your achievements will all carry over if you add the game to Origin using that account.
I was able to do that when I installed from the discs, it's just that some of them didn't work because I needed a patch that doesn't appear to be supported on the website anymore. Origin should have that patch right?

[Inarius]

I was able to do that when I installed from the discs, it's just that some of them didn't work because I needed a patch that doesn't appear to be supported on the website anymore. Origin should have that patch right?

Yeah, Origin automatically patches it to the latest version.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Excellent! I'll be able to get that started at last! Thanks, Inarius! :smallsmile:

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I can't decide if I wanna play an elf sword and shield Warrior or Knight Enchanter Mage in Inquisition.

[Keltest]

I can't decide if I wanna play an elf sword and shield Warrior or Knight Enchanter Mage in Inquisition.

If you prefer to be in the middle mixing it up, sword and board is the better choice IMO. Unfortunately, the mage chassis doesn't have a whole lot to contribute to that playstyle even with the KE spec. You can be kinda-sorta tankey, but not as much as a full on warrior, and you can kind of deal some damage, but not as much as if you were a full on blaster mage.

[Giggling Ghast]

I can't decide if I wanna play an elf sword and shield Warrior or Knight Enchanter Mage in Inquisition.

If it at all affects your decision, keep in mind that at the end of DAI, Solas ...

... leaves your party, so you'll be down a mage.

I'd play a mage in DAI for that reason, but ... I just can't. Melee fighter for life, bro.

[Morty]

Knight-Enchanter does offer a sort of unique playstyle, what with being a mage who gets up close and personal. I'm playing one right now. But from what I've seen of the weapon/shield style, it seems Inquisition actually manages to make it interesting - compared to the "stand in the front and not die" style of the first few games.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Honestly now I'm considering an Artificer Rogue instead. It makes that prosthetic crossbow thingy at the end make more sense. Plus, if a First is so important, why would Clan Lavellan risk sending them as a spy?

[Metahuman1]

So, does anyone know of a glitch of a bug that shuts down the tactical camera option during wicked hearts and wicked minds on the PS4?

I'm having that problem, and I've swapped controllers and characters and it only is having trouble on the character going through that quest.

[Morty]

The Artificer specialization never struck me as very practical. But maybe it gets better if you control it yourself, rather than leaving it to Varric's AI.

[Keltest]

The Artificer specialization never struck me as very practical. But maybe it gets better if you control it yourself, rather than leaving it to Varric's AI.

I'm not in love with it either. its definitely meant for an archer, but any good rogue is going to avoid having people come after him to begin with.

[Dienekes]

The Artificer specialization never struck me as very practical. But maybe it gets better if you control it yourself, rather than leaving it to Varric's AI.

Yeah, I had Varric with me the entire game, and after fiddling about with Artificer for awhile I just abandoned every ability from the tree.

There are a bunch of neat abilities to set up traps so that your archer can get out of the way when someone comes for him. The problem is, the enemy AI is stupid and it is downright trivial to position your archer right so that that doesn't happen, and if it does, you only need 1 get out of trouble ability. And it's hard to justify picking a different escape ability when Stealth is right there as a 1 level dip into Subterfuge.

That said, running into melee, setting up traps and using Fallback plan is fun as you see the enemies get stuck and damaged and whatnot. Only, it drastically reduces your DPS and puts the archer in unnecessary danger. Both of which are directly opposed to what an archer is supposed to be doing. It's more fun than just playing a generic archer, but at the cost of efficiently doing an archer's job.

I will say, some of the passive abilities are pretty nice to have since they give the entire party a nice damage bonus. I haven't exactly done the math to see if passive vs passive Artificer is better than Tempest or Assassin, but my gut says that they are.

[Inarius]

I'm not in love with it either. its definitely meant for an archer, but any good rogue is going to avoid having people come after him to begin with.

It can be used to great effect with melee. The only thing that really makes it seem like artificer is for archers is its focus ability, which is a great ability but overall I find focus abilities to be entirely skippable. Going with Sigil of the Great Bear + elemental mines + throw everything upgrade (extra mines for every 5 stamina you have) you can put out insane damage without having to be at range.

[Morty]

Yeah, I had Varric with me the entire game, and after fiddling about with Artificer for awhile I just abandoned every ability from the tree.

There are a bunch of neat abilities to set up traps so that your archer can get out of the way when someone comes for him. The problem is, the enemy AI is stupid and it is downright trivial to position your archer right so that that doesn't happen, and if it does, you only need 1 get out of trouble ability. And it's hard to justify picking a different escape ability when Stealth is right there as a 1 level dip into Subterfuge.

That said, running into melee, setting up traps and using Fallback plan is fun as you see the enemies get stuck and damaged and whatnot. Only, it drastically reduces your DPS and puts the archer in unnecessary danger. Both of which are directly opposed to what an archer is supposed to be doing. It's more fun than just playing a generic archer, but at the cost of efficiently doing an archer's job.

I will say, some of the passive abilities are pretty nice to have since they give the entire party a nice damage bonus. I haven't exactly done the math to see if passive vs passive Artificer is better than Tempest or Assassin, but my gut says that they are.

That seems to sum it up. It's a very neat concept for a specialization, but Inquisition's combat mechanics just don't really gel with it.

If it does work better in melee, that'd be kind of ironic, given how your other ranged rogue also has a specialization that works better in melee.

On a semi-related note, I kind of hope that whenever the next Dragon Age game happens, we get a dwarven companion who genuinely believes in their tradition and lore. Oghren was irreverent and interested primarily in booze, fighting and women; Varric actively rejected them. So it'd be a nice change.

[Giggling Ghast]

That'll be interesting. The Descent proved that dwarven belief is, to an extent, actually correct: they DO come from the Stone. They ARE connected to it. And their souls may very well return to the Stone in death.

But there's still much to learn there. How did the dwarves seperate from the Titans? Are the Sha-Brytol a breakaway sect or are they truly how dwarves are supposed to be? And how can red lyrium pre-date the first Blight?

[Kish]

On a semi-related note, I kind of hope that whenever the next Dragon Age game happens, we get a dwarven companion who genuinely believes in their tradition and lore. Oghren was irreverent and interested primarily in booze, fighting and women; Varric actively rejected them. So it'd be a nice change.
The biggest problem I see with that, is that a dedicated Orzammar patriot would be really unhappy about going to the surface.

[Keltest]

The biggest problem I see with that, is that a dedicated Orzammar patriot would be really unhappy about going to the surface.

IIRC, in Awakening, Sigrun was a member of the Legion of the Dead, and thus allowed a significantly greater degree of freedom, what with being officially dead and all. However, she was also largely traditional for a dwarf.

In principal though you are correct. Traditional orzammar dwarves do not go on adventures. We could possibly see whats up with Kal Sharok though.

[Giggling Ghast]

On a related note, World of Thedas Volume 1 states that a large number of surface dwarves live in the Tevinter Imperium due to the old alliance between dwarves and Tevinter. They aren't considered citizens but rather foreign dignitaries (regardless of how long they've lived there). They have their own branch of government, unlike surface dwarves of other nations.

Interestingly, the dwarven embassies in Minrathous, Neromenian and Qarinus are subterranean and dwarves who serve there retain their caste. Some dwarves even spend their whole lives in these embassies.

[marycrook]

I agree that, There are a lots of abilities to set up traps so that your archer can get out of the way when someone comes for him.

[Morty]

That'll be interesting. The Descent proved that dwarven belief is, to an extent, actually correct: they DO come from the Stone. They ARE connected to it. And their souls may very well return to the Stone in death.

But there's still much to learn there. How did the dwarves seperate from the Titans? Are the Sha-Brytol a breakaway sect or are they truly how dwarves are supposed to be? And how can red lyrium pre-date the first Blight?

My theory about that is that the Blight is older than the darkspawn as humans know them.

I think the Evanuris uncovered it while mining the Titans' bodies from lyrium - they unleashed something terrible, we know that. And Solas locked it away in the Fade, along with the "gods" themselves. Solas clearly knows more about the Blight than he lets on - he gets very angry at the Grey Wardens for thinking they can "trick" it.

Then the Magisters freed it again while invading the Black City. Hard to say why the Old Gods tricked them into doing that, but the Old Gods are an enigma in either case.

If the Blight did come from the depths of the earth, the red lyrium might have been infested even before the Evanuris Dug Too Greedily and Too Deep. As far as dwarves being disconnected from the Titans go, it probably happened when Mythal and her followers struck the Titans down. The Sha-Brytol might be a reflection of what the dwarves used to be, but Valta says the Titan doesn't actually need them. There are hints that the Titans and the dwarves were linked by hive-minds.


The biggest problem I see with that, is that a dedicated Orzammar patriot would be really unhappy about going to the surface.

That's a problem, yes. The warriors of the Legion of the Dead get dispensation to leave the surface sometimes, like Keltest said, so something like that might be possible. They would need a very important reason to leave the underground, certainly.


On a related note, World of Thedas Volume 1 states that a large number of surface dwarves live in the Tevinter Imperium due to the old alliance between dwarves and Tevinter. They aren't considered citizens but rather foreign dignitaries (regardless of how long they've lived there). They have their own branch of government, unlike surface dwarves of other nations.

Interestingly, the dwarven embassies in Minrathous, Neromenian and Qarinus are subterranean and dwarves who serve there retain their caste. Some dwarves even spend their whole lives in these embassies.

Indeed, which is why I hope we'll get to see more dwarves if the next game does take place in Tevinter.

[Giggling Ghast]

There is the possibility that the ancient elves accidentally uncovered the Old Gods, which made them withdraw from the Deep Roads. Solas did seem to piddle himself a little when he learned about the Wardens' plan to seek out the remaining Old Gods.

[Keltest]

There is the possibility that the ancient elves accidentally uncovered the Old Gods, which made them withdraw from the Deep Roads. Solas did seem to piddle himself a little when he learned about the Wardens' plan to seek out the remaining Old Gods.

It does beg the question of where the Darkspawn came from though, and why the Magisters became them.

[Inarius]

It's fairly heavily implied that the Elven Pantheon dealt with the blight at some point in their history and that the Forgotten Ones were the ones harnessing it as a power source. It infected one of the Enuvaris, Andruil, and corrupted her people and lands until eventually Mythal fought and defeated her.

On top of that there's some evidence that the Blight predates even the Forgotten Ones in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC. Geldauran was there looking for power that would allow him to become more powerful than the Enuvarius. So the Blight has probably been around for a very long time, and probably was intentionally locked up in the Golden City.

[Morty]

It's fairly heavily implied that the Elven Pantheon dealt with the blight at some point in their history and that the Forgotten Ones were the ones harnessing it as a power source. It infected one of the Enuvaris, Andruil, and corrupted her people and lands until eventually Mythal fought and defeated her.

On top of that there's some evidence that the Blight predates even the Forgotten Ones in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC. Geldauran was there looking for power that would allow him to become more powerful than the Enuvarius. So the Blight has probably been around for a very long time, and probably was intentionally locked up in the Golden City.


Yeah, that's my reasoning as well. I think the Forgotten Ones were Darkspawn like Corypheus, the Architect and others. Since the Blight would give them the power equal or greater to the Evanuris, they'd go down in myth as a rival pantheon.

That being said, the Darkspawn do deliberately seek out the Old Gods and corrupt them. It's a missing piece of the puzzle. I think they were dragon gods in the same way Evanuris were elven gods, but their connection to the Blight, or reasoning for sending the Magisters into the Fade, are still elusive.

[JadedDM]

Indeed, which is why I hope we'll get to see more dwarves if the next game does take place in Tevinter.
Speaking of the 'next game,' has there been any word on that whatsoever yet? Has Bioware even officially announced yet that they are even working on it?

[Anteros]

Speaking of the 'next game,' has there been any word on that whatsoever yet? Has Bioware even officially announced yet that they are even working on it?

I doubt we'll get much until after the new Mass Effect game is out.

[Inarius]

Yeah, that's my reasoning as well. I think the Forgotten Ones were Darkspawn like Corypheus, the Architect and others. Since the Blight would give them the power equal or greater to the Evanuris, they'd go down in myth as a rival pantheon.

That being said, the Darkspawn do deliberately seek out the Old Gods and corrupt them. It's a missing piece of the puzzle. I think they were dragon gods in the same way Evanuris were elven gods, but their connection to the Blight, or reasoning for sending the Magisters into the Fade, are still elusive.

I think the Old Gods intentionally had the blight released thinking they would be able to control it, but because of what Solas did putting up the Veil they weren't able to control the blight like they thought they would be able to and wound up getting consumed by it instead of mastering its power.

[Morty]

Speaking of the 'next game,' has there been any word on that whatsoever yet? Has Bioware even officially announced yet that they are even working on it?


I doubt we'll get much until after the new Mass Effect game is out.

Pretty much. We know it'll happen, because Inquisition ended with a very clear segue into a next game, but that's all. And right now, their marketing is focused on Mass Effect: Andromeda. So we might find out more a while after it's out.


I think the Old Gods intentionally had the blight released thinking they would be able to control it, but because of what Solas did putting up the Veil they weren't able to control the blight like they thought they would be able to and wound up getting consumed by it instead of mastering its power.

That's entirely possible. There's also the possibility that they were blind-sided by the Blight, though. Sending the Magisters to the Fade might have been their means of escape, since they were asleep underground for some reason.

[Giggling Ghast]

Speaking of the 'next game,' has there been any word on that whatsoever yet? Has Bioware even officially announced yet that they are even working on it?

Not so much as a peep.

[JadedDM]

Oh, I'm aware that unless there's some kind of unexpected disaster, like a meteor crashing into Bioware HQ or something, there will be a fourth Dragon Age game. I know the epilogue of the last game hinted at it, too. I just think it's weird Bioware has been so deathly silent on it. Not even a tweet?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I've narrowed it down between Artificer Archer Rogue and Knight Enchanter Mage now for my upcoming Lavellan playthrough.

Artificer Pros: Her card will have a wolf on it, which will sort of match up with Solas, her romance, makes more sense for Clan Lavellan to send a mere hunter instead of someone as valuable as their First, different from my Warden and Hawke, who will be a Warrior and Mage respectively, meaning each game was played with a different class lending it a sense of completeness. Makes the prosthetic crossbow arm seen in Tresspasser's ending card make sense (where'd she get it? She's an artificer, she built it herself!).

Artificer Cons: Redundant with Varric, who's also an Artificer and probably going to be Lavellan's best bud, and Sera, who's also an elf archer. Also redundant to my Warden, who is also a Dalish hunter. Bows seem divided between low-tier ones that look simplistic and boring, and high-tier ones that look ridiculous. The consensus seems to be that Artificer is really fussy to work with. Not probably going to be as invested in Mage freedom and Chantry politics as the game seems to want you to be due to not being a mage and an outsider.

Knight Enchanter Pros: One of the most powerful combos in the game, at least if it hasn't been nerfed. MAGIC GLOWING SWORD, WHO DOESN'T LOVE THOSE?! Gives a real sense of delving into Dalish history as Knight Enchanter has its roots in Dalish traditions. More of a connection to Solas and Ameridan, as they're a Dalish Mage. More of a stake in the fight for Mage freedom.

Knight Enchanter Cons: Kind of redundant to Hawke, as they're going to be a mage, and even more redundant to Merrill, who is Hawke's love interest in this playthrough. Card is now a halla, which doesn't quite gel with Solas' wolf card like the non-mage class cards do. Prosthetic crossbow arm now comes out of nowhere (she's a mage, why does she need a crossbow arm?)
Also, Dragon Age Legends seems to no longer be supported for download. Would I be able to pull it from my old hard drive to my new computer?

[Morty]

An archer rogue is powerful, but pretty dull. You're going to pump out crazy amounts of damage, but there's not much variety to it. Granted, I played with the Assassin specialization, not Artificer. And Assassin pretty much doubles down on the "crazy damage" aspect. Artificer strikes me as fairly impractical. Cool concept, but the mechanics of Inquisition don't do it justice.

I'm pretty sure Knight-Enchanter was, in fact, nerfed. But it does offer a unique playstyle with it. You're a mage who mixes it up in close combat. Their slow field is a fun spell, and knocking enemies around by phasing through them would be fun if it worked reliably.

That's as far as mechanics go. I have no insight of the flavour aspects, since you're attaching your own story to it.


Oh, I'm aware that unless there's some kind of unexpected disaster, like a meteor crashing into Bioware HQ or something, there will be a fourth Dragon Age game. I know the epilogue of the last game hinted at it, too. I just think it's weird Bioware has been so deathly silent on it. Not even a tweet?

My best guess is that they didn't want to divide people's attention between it and Andromeda.

Once I'm done with my human mage, I've got a third Inquisitor prepared. A female elf warrior with axe and shield. But I may start over with that and make it a male elf warrior, instead. I want to try out Dorian's romance, and none of the options available to a female Inquisitor really appeal to me. I might also go with a qunari instead of elf, not sure. But I do know I'll go with a shield-using warrior. Not only are two-handed weapons a twisted parody in Inquisition, but shield-using actually seems pretty fun. There's some dynamic elements to it, as opposed to standing in front of your team and not dying.

[Keltest]

Ive got a human rogue assassin with daggers who's about to make Corypheus very sad and very dead, and a dwarf 2h reaver who I am struggling to be interested in. Anybody have any interesting mage builds they like to share? I'm not all that hyped about being a support mage, but crowd control could be interesting.

[Cozzer]

Oh, I'm aware that unless there's some kind of unexpected disaster, like a meteor crashing into Bioware HQ or something, there will be a fourth Dragon Age game. I know the epilogue of the last game hinted at it, too. I just think it's weird Bioware has been so deathly silent on it. Not even a tweet?


I think there have been a few very obscure tweets from known DA developers, with no new information except for "yes, we're alive". I agree with morty: they're probably working on it, taking it slowly, but they want to keep ALL OF THE HYPE focused on Andromeda. When that ship has sailed, I think the marketing might shift again towards the DA series. Which is a pretty reasonable way to handle things, I think.

[Inarius]

I think there have been a few very obscure tweets from known DA developers, with no new information except for "yes, we're alive". I agree with morty: they're probably working on it, taking it slowly, but they want to keep ALL OF THE HYPE focused on Andromeda. When that ship has sailed, I think the marketing might shift again towards the DA series. Which is a pretty reasonable way to handle things, I think.

Yeah, I'm sure they're mostly focused on Andromeda atm. After that they'll probably go quiet for awhile and either announce the next DA game or whatever new IP they're working on is going to be.

Edit: well it looks like the next game we're going to be getting news on is the new Mystery Ip which is scheduled to launch early next year (End of this fiscal year). I can't imagine them mentioning much about the next Dragon Age game when they have a whole new IP to begin revealing after they get finished with the post launch stuff for Mass Effect.

[Morty]

Has anyone ever played a Reaver warrior with a shield? I'm planning to play an axe/shield elven or qunari warrior at some point, and I'm deciding between Templar and Reaver. I like Templar as a concept, but the specialization lost its teeth in Inquisition - feels like a generic paladin, not a mage-hunter. So I'll be going for Raver, but I'm not sure how that works with a shield.

[Anteros]

Has anyone ever played a Reaver warrior with a shield? I'm planning to play an axe/shield elven or qunari warrior at some point, and I'm deciding between Templar and Reaver. I like Templar as a concept, but the specialization lost its teeth in Inquisition - feels like a generic paladin, not a mage-hunter. So I'll be going for Raver, but I'm not sure how that works with a shield.

I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. You won't be doing tons of damage, or mitigating as much as a pure tank, but you should be able to handle anything the game throws at you.

[Keltest]

I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. You won't be doing tons of damage, or mitigating as much as a pure tank, but you should be able to handle anything the game throws at you.

My thoughts as well.

Actually, if you pick a lot of tanking abilities to build guard, it might work a bit better than 2h. Reaver abilities don't give a crap about your guard level, including Dragon Rage, so if you can keep your guard up you can really let loose with dragon rage and run around low on health all the time for the bonus damage.

[Dienekes]

My thoughts as well.

Actually, if you pick a lot of tanking abilities to build guard, it might work a bit better than 2h. Reaver abilities don't give a crap about your guard level, including Dragon Rage, so if you can keep your guard up you can really let loose with dragon rage and run around low on health all the time for the bonus damage.

The only real problem with that which I can see is that at harder difficulties guard generating is kind of a full power-bar job. So he may not be getting the full use of his damage if most of his powers revolve around generating his guard.

So if he is going guard reaver, it may behoove him to bring along Cass or Blackwall to be a true tank while he's more of an off-tank.

But it doesn't seem unplayable, by any means.

[S@tanicoaldo]

I dunno about you guys.

But I want a Spellbinder as a mage specialization in the next game. I want a floating book : D

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/1/14/Spellbinder.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150503005909

What about you guys? Any class you guys want to show up?

[Morty]

There's a very long list of character creation options I'd like to see in the next Dragon Age game, but I'm fully aware 90% of them won't happen.

[Keltest]

Well, I would like the heavy artillery mage to return, personally. the dual wielding warrior is also something I miss from Origins.

[Dienekes]

Honestly, I'm more worried about the gameplay than the classes. I'd want Bioware to pick one: Either go for a full tactical combat game, or an action RPG. Trying to do both at the same time just makes the game a ridiculously easy tactics game or a bloated slog of an action game.

In any case, I do have a list of class specializations I'd like to play:
-Polearm Warrior
-Shield and spear Warrior
-Commander/tactical Warrior
-Bard Rogue

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I dunno about you guys.

But I want a Spellbinder as a mage specialization in the next game. I want a floating book : D

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonage/images/1/14/Spellbinder.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150503005909

What about you guys? Any class you guys want to show up?
Where the blazes is that picture from?! It's so cool!

[Inarius]

Where the blazes is that picture from?! It's so cool!

Looks like its from DA:I. I think it might of been one of the NPC enemy types though I'm not totally sure on that.

edit: yup thats from the game, heres the Codex (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Spellbinder) entry

[Giggling Ghast]

Spellbinders appear throughout the game. Their teleport effect actually has them transform into a funnel of pages from their books.

I normally can't stomach playing mages, but I could see myself playing a Virtuoso type of mage in DA4 after trying it out in multiplayer. Maybe we could be mentored by Zither!

[Morty]

As generally unenthusiastic as I am about Inquisition's multiplayer, some of the kits do freely mix and match between classes and specializations, or introduce new abilities. Some use completely unique mechanics, like Zither and the Saarebas. So I have a modest amount of hope they're testing things for future instalments this way. But I also greatly hope they don't alter the single player experience to fit multiplayer again, which I'm pretty sure happened in Inquisition.

[Psyren]

As generally unenthusiastic as I am about Inquisition's multiplayer, some of the kits do freely mix and match between classes and specializations, or introduce new abilities. Some use completely unique mechanics, like Zither and the Saarebas. So I have a modest amount of hope they're testing things for future instalments this way. But I also greatly hope they don't alter the single player experience to fit multiplayer again, which I'm pretty sure happened in Inquisition.

This is not automatically a bad thing. ME3 single player was modified to fit the needs of multiplayer and it worked out extremely well - no-pause gameplay, tech combos, level- and weight-based cooldowns rather than researched ones, etc.

The one negative was the removal of time dilation from Cloak and AR in single player (since that would be impossible to implement without slowing down everyone on the server periodically.) That sucked at first, but I think the faster pace of the game that resulted made us better off.

Where DAI falls down is the greater dependence on specific gear and specific comps to succeed. In ME3 multiplayer, you can use a starting class with a bronze weapon like the Human Engineer with an Avenger X and still clear gold difficulty. Not so much DAI, where the loot treadmill was even more important and carrying was nigh impossible. In small-scale multiplayer, carrying needs to be a thing, otherwise one greenhorn or troll can irreparably ruin the entire match for everyone else.

[Dienekes]

This is not automatically a bad thing. ME3 single player was modified to fit the needs of multiplayer and it worked out extremely well - no-pause gameplay, tech combos, level- and weight-based cooldowns rather than researched ones, etc.

The one negative was the removal of time dilation from Cloak and AR in single player (since that would be impossible to implement without slowing down everyone on the server periodically.) That sucked at first, but I think the faster pace of the game that resulted made us better off.

Where DAI falls down is the greater dependence on specific gear and specific comps to succeed. In ME3 multiplayer, you can use a starting class with a bronze weapon like the Human Engineer with an Avenger X and still clear gold difficulty. Not so much DAI, where the loot treadmill was even more important and carrying was nigh impossible. In small-scale multiplayer, carrying needs to be a thing, otherwise one greenhorn or troll can irreparably ruin the entire match for everyone else.

Minor correction, AR does slow down time in the single player. It just doesn't in the multiplayer version, where it becomes similar to Marksman.

Any way, I agree with you on the rest. DAI's multiplayer was a number's check, because that's largely how the combat in DAI works. You can mix it up by playing tactically with your entire groups abilities, but when you're only playing one character the coordination to do that is much harder.

While ME3 multiplayer was mostly a skill check. If you know how to aim, you can generally beat all but the hardest difficulties with whatever loot you want.

[Morty]

This is not automatically a bad thing. ME3 single player was modified to fit the needs of multiplayer and it worked out extremely well - no-pause gameplay, tech combos, level- and weight-based cooldowns rather than researched ones, etc.

The one negative was the removal of time dilation from Cloak and AR in single player (since that would be impossible to implement without slowing down everyone on the server periodically.) That sucked at first, but I think the faster pace of the game that resulted made us better off.

Where DAI falls down is the greater dependence on specific gear and specific comps to succeed. In ME3 multiplayer, you can use a starting class with a bronze weapon like the Human Engineer with an Avenger X and still clear gold difficulty. Not so much DAI, where the loot treadmill was even more important and carrying was nigh impossible. In small-scale multiplayer, carrying needs to be a thing, otherwise one greenhorn or troll can irreparably ruin the entire match for everyone else.

DAI's gameplay was modified to suit multiplayer a lot more than ME3's, though. The control scheme and skills were tailored to one player controlling every character, and then three of those characters are given to the AI in singleplayer. ME3's changes are more subtle, and the core experience remains largely unchanged. It helps that in Mass Effect, the NPC teammates were always AI-directed and the player only gave them simple commands.

It's also true that the resulting multiplayer isn't riveting, but that's beside the point. One can hope they find a way to make both modes work in the next game. I would like to see a good multiplayer experience in Dragon Age.

[JadedDM]

I hope they bring back Spirit Healer...and healing in general. That was my favorite class in the first two games and I sorely missed it in the third.

[Dienekes]

I hope they bring back Spirit Healer...and healing in general. That was my favorite class in the first two games and I sorely missed it in the third.

I'd be surprised if they did. Limiting healing offers a lot of theoretical possibilities on map and encounter design and opens up party comp that would break with free healing. And Bioware seems to be making some halfhearted steps to try and do that in DAI. And since that was the most successful DA game in terms of units sold, I doubt they'd go back on that.

[Inarius]

I'd be surprised if they did. Limiting healing offers a lot of theoretical possibilities on map and encounter design and opens up party comp that would break with free healing. And Bioware seems to be making some halfhearted steps to try and do that in DAI. And since that was the most successful DA game in terms of units sold, I doubt they'd go back on that.

Limited healing does indeed do that, but then Bioware added in stuff like Barrier and Guard which when you look at it functions as a healing mechanic. They don't restore your health bar but they generate additional health bars that can be refilled via various means. If enemies had more guard and barrier breaking abilities it might be a different story, but as it is adding more healing into the mix would just make things absurdly easy.

[Dienekes]

Limited healing does indeed do that, but then Bioware added in stuff like Barrier and Guard which when you look at it functions as a healing mechanic. They don't restore your health bar but they generate additional health bars that can be refilled via various means. If enemies had more guard and barrier breaking abilities it might be a different story, but as it is adding more healing into the mix would just make things absurdly easy.

Part of why I said it was a halfhearted attempt.

There are ideas in there. Some damn good ideas, actually. But the implementation is all over the place.

[Kish]

I just hope they never bring back the awful "on Thedas everyone regenerates like Wolverine except when they don't" thing.

(Being able to play a blood mage again, and have it acknowledged in the story, would be nice too.)

[Psyren]

I just hope they never bring back the awful "on Thedas everyone regenerates like Wolverine except when they don't" thing.

(Being able to play a blood mage again, and have it acknowledged in the story, would be nice too.)

That was one thing I have to give Inquisiton props for, it did a good job at actually paying attention to the specialization you picked and making NPCs react to it. Hopefully future titles do the same.

I also love the idea of learning specializations from characters in the world, instead of just finding books or assigning points. The Rift Mage teacher is still hands down one of my favorite minor characters in all of Thedas. I kind of wish Mass Effect had done the same thing, e.g. including dialogue where Tali teaches you how to craft a defense drone or Miranda teaches you her biotic slam, and they could even throw some romance dialogue in there.

[Morty]

Limited healing does indeed do that, but then Bioware added in stuff like Barrier and Guard which when you look at it functions as a healing mechanic. They don't restore your health bar but they generate additional health bars that can be refilled via various means. If enemies had more guard and barrier breaking abilities it might be a different story, but as it is adding more healing into the mix would just make things absurdly easy.


Part of why I said it was a halfhearted attempt.

There are ideas in there. Some damn good ideas, actually. But the implementation is all over the place.

Barriers and guard were definitely a good start, but they do need more to be done with them. More interaction with offensive abilities, like Inarius said. Also, mages need more than one way to apply barrier. Warriors have different abilities that put guard on them and their allies, but mages just get the one spell that they drop on the party. For the most part, anyway. Knight-Enchanters can refill their barrier with spirit blade attacks. This is something we should see more of.

[Dienekes]

Barriers and guard were definitely a good start, but they do need more to be done with them. More interaction with offensive abilities, like Inarius said. Also, mages need more than one way to apply barrier. Warriors have different abilities that put guard on them and their allies, but mages just get the one spell that they drop on the party. For the most part, anyway. Knight-Enchanters can refill their barrier with spirit blade attacks. This is something we should see more of.

I really don't know, man. On the surface more ways to interact with the mechanic seems nice. But, part of the problem with KE in the first place (and the combat in general) is because the ability generates barriers so consistently the game's tactical elements just turned into a numbers check: Can you refill your barrier faster than your opponents can take them down.

Hell, doing the same thing with Warrior was how I basically broke the game. Go Champion, put up 5-6 Guard abilities and you're immortal. Hell, doing that I solo'd dragon's over my level on the hardest difficulty, it was just very, very boring. Which, again, is one of the main problems with the Dragon Age combat.

[Morty]

True, I suppose. The idea is nice, but it might fall into the same old pitfalls.

[Anteros]

I really don't know, man. On the surface more ways to interact with the mechanic seems nice. But, part of the problem with KE in the first place (and the combat in general) is because the ability generates barriers so consistently the game's tactical elements just turned into a numbers check: Can you refill your barrier faster than your opponents can take them down.

Hell, doing the same thing with Warrior was how I basically broke the game. Go Champion, put up 5-6 Guard abilities and you're immortal. Hell, doing that I solo'd dragon's over my level on the hardest difficulty, it was just very, very boring. Which, again, is one of the main problems with the Dragon Age combat.

I'm not convinced that's a failing in the engine. I mean, you specifically built a character name the most boring way possible...of course it's boring!

[Dienekes]

I'm not convinced that's a failing in the engine. I mean, you specifically built a character name the most boring way possible...of course it's boring!

The game was about tactical choice and party composition. I made a good tactical choice (actually, a blatantly obvious tactical choice with even the slightest understanding of the game mechanics), and all challenge in the game ends. You actually have to be asleep to lose if you're near an appropriate level. That's pretty bad gameplay, just in general.

At least when compared to other tactics games like, for example, X-Com and Fire Emblem where no such mathematical guaranteed success exists.

Of course, you could argue that the way the system is set up is meant to be more like an action game. But, it's a pretty crappy action game as well. Because again, the game is won and lost on number checks and not player skill input.

[Inarius]

I'm not convinced that's a failing in the engine. I mean, you specifically built a character name the most boring way possible...of course it's boring!

I think its a little of both. It's designing a character to intentionally take advantage of a mechanic within the game. The mechanic is a good start but I feel guard/barrier need more refinement. The whole reason for the damage nerf for KE wasn't because spirit blade did super awesome damage (my rogues autoattack for more than unnerfed spirit blade). It was because of the spammability of a moderate damage ability that allowed you to sustain your barriers and reduce the cooldowns of your big hitting abilities like energy barrage and fire mine.

[Aeson]

In addition to what Dienekes just said, I'd suggest that it's fair to fault a game for allowing the player the option of making one or more characters essentially invulnerable.

[Dienekes]

In addition to what Dienekes just said, I'd suggest that it's fair to fault a game for allowing the player the option of making one or more characters essentially invulnerable.

I'd make the small caveat that some times bugs and exploits sneak into a system. That happens, no game is perfect.

But if beating the game just comes from going down two skill trees, that's on them.

[Aeson]

I'd make the small caveat that some times bugs and exploits sneak into a system. That happens, no game is perfect.
Agreed. Consider the statement amended to "I would suggest that it's fair to fault a game for allowing the player to make one or more characters essentially invulnerable if doing so does not involve taking advantage of bugs or anything more than very minor exploits." An example of a very minor exploit might be equipping a stat-boosting item to allow a character to equip another item, and then replacing the stat-boosting item with something else.

[ArlEammon]

What's your opinion on Mages and Templars? Anyone?

[Keltest]

What's your opinion on Mages and Templars? Anyone?

For my part, I think Vivienne is full of crap and the mages are generally right. The circle system is pretty abusive towards people who's only crime is an accident of birth, and does more to foster dangerous use of magic than it does to suppress it.

[ArlEammon]

For my part, I think Vivienne is full of crap and the mages are generally right. The circle system is pretty abusive towards people who's only crime is an accident of birth, and does more to foster dangerous use of magic than it does to suppress it.

Hmm interesting. A long time has happened since the destruction of the Grand Cathedral.

[Dienekes]

What's your opinion on Mages and Templars? Anyone?

The more they're focused on the more I just hate everyone involved.

On one hand, there's a reason why every single ancient society and non-developed culture we know of was run by a violent and abusive magocracy of slave sacrificing super villains (with the exception of the dwarves who can't really do magic the way everyone else can). The Tevinter and the Elves being the most blatant about it.

I'd be willing to sacrifice quite a large amount just to make sure that never happens again. And considering the non-magically run cultures are those dominated by the Templar, the dwarves, and the Qunari who are somehow even more monstrous. I will say the Templar did their job efficiently. If horrifyingly. 800 years of success is nothing to sneeze at.

I had hopes that the elves would show a better way of dealing with the mage problem. But apparently they just pick one mage to apprentice and if there's too many they just leave the unlucky one to die alone in the wild, become possessed, or get abducted by the templars. So, no real help there.

I wish I had a better plan. And other than suggesting that trained mages should be allowed in the Templar ranks I really don't know what to do. I just recognize Templars may be necessary. And then side with the mages every damn time they abuse their power, as they're going to do with no checks and balances.

[Inarius]

For my part, I think Vivienne is full of crap and the mages are generally right. The circle system is pretty abusive towards people who's only crime is an accident of birth, and does more to foster dangerous use of magic than it does to suppress it.

I think Vivienne's stance is less about mages and more about herself to be honest. She isn't angry that the mages rebelled so much as being angry the mages rebelled leaving her the newly appointed leader of a nearly empty Circle. On top of that the Empress can then openly use an Apostate as an adviser leaving her with less power among the nobility.

If you make her Divine for instance a group of mages asks to leave the circle and she allows it because she no longer needs to wield authority among them to gain power. If it was really about protecting people from mages and that circles were the best option she would of never allowed the mages to leave. On top of that she leashes the Templars again, which basically means shes junking them up on Lyrium which is part of what caused the whole mess to begin with.


The more they're focused on the more I just hate everyone involved.

On one hand, there's a reason why every single ancient society and non-developed culture we know of was run by a violent and abusive magocracy of slave sacrificing super villains (with the exception of the dwarves who can't really do magic the way everyone else can). The Tevinter and the Elves being the most blatant about it.

I'd be willing to sacrifice quite a large amount just to make sure that never happens again. And considering the non-magically run cultures are those dominated by the Templar, the dwarves, and the Qunari who are somehow even more monstrous. I will say the Templar did their job efficiently. If horrifyingly. 800 years of success is nothing to sneeze at.

The thing about mages is we know they can exist peacefully among regular citizens. Take a look at the Avvar in Jaws of Hakkon. There we learn that possession can be reversed, that spirits can help ward demons away from villages. The mages have a role in society that doesn't necessarily involve them lording over others. The Chantry I think had a knee jerk reaction after the war with Tevinter and caused more damage than they solved by demonizing mages and locking them away from society.

[Dienekes]

The thing about mages is we know they can exist peacefully among regular citizens. Take a look at the Avvar in Jaws of Hakkon. There we learn that possession can be reversed, that spirits can help ward demons away from villages. The mages have a role in society that doesn't necessarily involve them lording over others. The Chantry I think had a knee jerk reaction after the war with Tevinter and caused more damage than they solved by demonizing mages and locking them away from society.

Right, the guys attempting to re-birth an elder god that may in fact just be another demon, or one of those super bloodthirsty mages to try and rule the world. Yeah, great.

Note, the point is not that mages cannot live peacefully with civilians. People are wondrous, I'm certain there are many who when given awesome cosmic power would use it to help cure diseases and grow crops.

But any system that does not have a check on the potential for mages to go all world conquering blood magic fueled super villain? That is a system that's bound to break. Because eventually there will be some ******* who doesn't want to grow crops and cure diseases. And from the setting we know that blood magic buffs the power of the mage dramatically.

I don't trust that every mage will hold hands and sing kumbaya, any more than I trust every Templar not to abuse their position of authority. But I don't pretend that the Templar aren't providing a somewhat necessary duty (even if they're doing it in a completely jackass way) any more than I pretend that the majority of mages don't deserve the treatment they're under. The system sucks. But abolishing the Templars without a damn good back up plan is problematic.

[Keltest]

Right, the guys attempting to re-birth an elder god that may in fact just be another demon, or one of those super bloodthirsty mages to try and rule the world. Yeah, great.

Note, the point is not that mages cannot live peacefully with civilians. People are wondrous, I'm certain there are many who when given awesome cosmic power would use it to help cure diseases and grow crops.

But any system that does not have a check on the potential for mages to go all world conquering blood magic fueled super villain? That is a system that's bound to break. Because eventually there will be some ******* who doesn't want to grow crops and cure diseases. And from the setting we know that blood magic buffs the power of the mage dramatically.

I don't trust that every mage will hold hands and sing kumbaya, any more than I trust every Templar not to abuse their position of authority. But I don't pretend that the Templar aren't providing a somewhat necessary duty (even if they're doing it in a completely jackass way) any more than I pretend that the majority of mages don't deserve the treatment they're under. The system sucks. But abolishing the Templars without a damn good back up plan is problematic.

Heres the thing. Magocratic blood empires do not arise overnight. Tevinter started off as being very close to the south after Andraste's rebellion, and changed by inches. Now its ruled by magisters again, and their Templars are a tool of the mages. A blood mage will be a dangerous short term threat, but they are highly unlikely to just seize power and take over, say, Ferelden, even if they did decide they wanted to do that. Without armies and popular opinion in their favor (or at least not dead set against them), theyre going to struggle to conquer anything.

Its true, not every mage will want to play by the rules. But oppressing the otherwise benign mages because of them isn't the answer.

[Dienekes]

Heres the thing. Magocratic blood empires do not arise overnight. Tevinter started off as being very close to the south after Andraste's rebellion, and changed by inches. Now its ruled by magisters again, and their Templars are a tool of the mages. A blood mage will be a dangerous short term threat, but they are highly unlikely to just seize power and take over, say, Ferelden, even if they did decide they wanted to do that. Without armies and popular opinion in their favor (or at least not dead set against them), theyre going to struggle to conquer anything.

Its true, not every mage will want to play by the rules. But oppressing the otherwise benign mages because of them isn't the answer.

Tevinter was already a blood drunk magocracy before Andraste, now it's basically that again with Templars who aren't doing the job in the south.

You can think the practice of Templars and Circles is barbaric all you want. I certainly do. But saying "This isn't the answer" without, you know, actually coming up with a working solution on how to prevent a magocracy doesn't actually do anything. No checks, no balances, only a time bomb.

[Inarius]

Tevinter was already a blood drunk magocracy before Andraste, now it's basically that again with Templars who aren't doing the job in the south.

You can think the practice of Templars and Circles is barbaric all you want. I certainly do. But saying "This isn't the answer" without, you know, actually coming up with a working solution on how to prevent a magocracy doesn't actually do anything. No checks, no balances, only a time bomb.

Honestly it seems like there was a solution at one point but the chantry threw that all out the window. Prior to the formation of the Circles, mages worked alongside Proto-Templars in the original Inquisition to bring demons and blood mages to heel. That seemed to of worked for the most part, but didn't last beyond Ameridan and his party.

[Kish]

I think Vivienne's stance is less about mages and more about herself to be honest. She isn't angry that the mages rebelled so much as being angry the mages rebelled leaving her the newly appointed leader of a nearly empty Circle. On top of that the Empress can then openly use an Apostate as an adviser leaving her with less power among the nobility.
If you have Vivienne and Cole in the party long enough, Cole spells out Vivienne's motivations in a lot more depth. She's a character entirely motivated by terror--of demons and of templars. And as Merrill can say in DA2, magic doesn't make people into monsters, but fear can. Everything she does or says is aimed at sending the message, "You don't have to kill me, I'm a Good One." When the cell door is opened, she screams for it to be closed before the jailer sees.

[Cozzer]

The idea you can propose to Vivienne (and I believe comes up in other dialogue choices too) during Inquisition, which is including mages in the Chantry hierarchy at all levels, is one I can see working. Not an instant perfect solution, but mages would have authority figures lobbying for their rights during all choices about Circles and how they should work.

That said, I usually end up making Leliana divine, which means the Circles are replaced by mage-governed Hogwartses or whatever in my canon setting. I can see that working too, since the Chantry/Templar influence is strong enough to keep them in check even from the outside (I imagine Templar parties would pay a lot of friendly courtesy visits to the colleges).

Basically, as long as the strongest power around has another, opposed, power strong enough to keep it in check, I'm ok with giving it a try. This time the balance was broken by mages having too little political weight compared to Templars, but I could see the same thing happening if the opposite had been true.

[Morty]

The mage/Templar/everyone else conflict is an interesting one, but buried under layers of botched writing. It's a question of freedom and security, and how willing we are to curb the freedom of some (mages) to protect the many (everyone who is neither a mage nor a highly-trained murderhobo protagonist). Unfortunately, Origins mostly goes along the lines of a painfully unoriginal "poor special people oppressed by the unwashed masses" story. DA2 makes Templars into fascists, and mages into people who can't be trusted to buy a newspaper without getting possessed. Inquisition finally starts handling it with some finesse, but the sour taste left by Meredith "walking Godwin's Law magnet" Stannard can't be washed away very easily.

Templars have an interesting conflict built into them in their own right. Thedas needs a force of non-mages to be a check on magic, but subjecting people to addiction that eventually leaves them senile wrecks is what most people would call a jerk move.

[Inarius]

If you have Vivienne and Cole in the party long enough, Cole spells out Vivienne's motivations in a lot more depth. She's a character entirely motivated by terror--of demons and of templars. And as Merrill can say in DA2, magic doesn't make people into monsters, but fear can. Everything she does or says is aimed at sending the message, "You don't have to kill me, I'm a Good One." When the cell door is opened, she screams for it to be closed before the jailer sees.

Yeah, I've seen that conversation in play as well and I'm sure her fear plays a role in why she wants the circles to remain. I do however also believe her quest for power also plays a significant role in why she wants the circles to remain. Even the way she describes her romance with Duke Bastien seems more like she fell in love with his status first and then the man second.

[Kish]

The way Cole describes her feelings when their relationship started, she was a terrified teenage girl (...which makes Bastien seem creepy as Fade, but never mind...) who suddenly, for the first time in her life, had a source of real protection. Which again points to her constant fear: she needs enough power to protect herself, and enough power to stop other mages from bringing down the retribution she will never believe isn't inches away, evidence be damned.

(As for falling in love with Bastien himself ever, well, she was willing to experiment on him with her youth potion, though I believe "yay he's not going to die now" would have been part of her reaction if it had worked, somewhere firmly behind "yay my youth potion works, 20 again here I come.")

[Dienekes]

Honestly it seems like there was a solution at one point but the chantry threw that all out the window. Prior to the formation of the Circles, mages worked alongside Proto-Templars in the original Inquisition to bring demons and blood mages to heel. That seemed to of worked for the most part, but didn't last beyond Ameridan and his party.

My understanding was that the King, the last Inquistors friend even, brought about the changes because his land was still overrun with blood mages and demons.

Which makes me think that the old inquisition was not as perfect a solution as we'd hoped. Though it may have just needed a bit of tweaking instead of being replaced with the Templar and Circles.


The mage/Templar/everyone else conflict is an interesting one, but buried under layers of botched writing. It's a question of freedom and security, and how willing we are to curb the freedom of some (mages) to protect the many (everyone who is neither a mage nor a highly-trained murderhobo protagonist). Unfortunately, Origins mostly goes along the lines of a painfully unoriginal "poor special people oppressed by the unwashed masses" story. DA2 makes Templars into fascists, and mages into people who can't be trusted to buy a newspaper without getting possessed. Inquisition finally starts handling it with some finesse, but the sour taste left by Meredith "walking Godwin's Law magnet" Stannard can't be washed away very easily.

Templars have an interesting conflict built into them in their own right. Thedas needs a force of non-mages to be a check on magic, but subjecting people to addiction that eventually leaves them senile wrecks is what most people would call a jerk move.

This is a pretty good description. Though for what it's worth I think both sides are still acting like idiots even in DA:I

[Keltest]

The way Cole describes her feelings when their relationship started, she was a terrified teenage girl (...which makes Bastien seem creepy as Fade, but never mind...) who suddenly, for the first time in her life, had a source of real protection. Which again points to her constant fear: she needs enough power to protect herself, and enough power to stop other mages from bringing down the retribution she will never believe isn't inches away, evidence be damned.

(As for falling in love with Bastien himself ever, well, she was willing to experiment on him with her youth potion, though I believe "yay he's not going to die now" would have been part of her reaction if it had worked, somewhere firmly behind "yay my youth potion works, 20 again here I come.")

Why would Vivienne want to be 20 again? Youthful beauty aside, nobody respects the still-barely-an-adult in any field, and she is perfectly happy playing the "intimidating older woman" card.

To say nothing of the fact that its pretty explicitly a one off thing with a shelf life of "no" and an ingredient list of "good luck".

[Giggling Ghast]

The Mage/Templar debate has so many different sides to it that it's a lot more complicated than simply Security vs. Freedom. For instance, what's your feelings on blood magic? On Tranquility? On employing spirits in magic?

I'm looking forward to seeing Tevinter because it represents the opposite side of the coin: where mages are not the oppressed, but the oppressors. I imagine a few of the more diehard mage freedom types will have their heads explode.

[factotum]

Templars have an interesting conflict built into them in their own right. Thedas needs a force of non-mages to be a check on magic, but subjecting people to addiction that eventually leaves them senile wrecks is what most people would call a jerk move.

The idea is, though, that lyrium gives them the ability to combat mages without themselves being mages, so what other choice do they have? It would be nice if you could have the Templars also be mages, since that would give an interesting conflict, but the Tevinter Imperium gives you an idea of what happens when mages are given the ability to govern themselves and others--demonic possession incidents are pretty much considered a cost of doing business, and blood magic usage is rife.

I do wonder how much of the story in later Dragon Age games comes because they didn't really expect the first one to be successful enough to warrant a sequel, though. The Grey Wardens are a particularly odd point to my mind--in the first game they seemed to be a dying order with very few members, yet by the time we get to Inquisition there are hundreds of them? And this doesn't seem to be down to simple "Oh, we had a Blight so we'd better get the Grey Warden population up again" thing either.

[Giggling Ghast]

That was only the Wardens in Ferelden, and there were in-game reasons for why the order was relatively small there. I do recall Riordan saying there were sizeable numbers of Wardens in other nations.

EDIT: Curse my fat fingers!

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Aye, canonically DA:O happens in a VERY short amount of time. A big point is made that the Wardens in Orlais are quite powerful, but that the civil leaders of Ferelden don't want to let them in because politics. The Wardens in Ferelden are weak (partially because there has never been a blight in Ferelden before), and then are crushed in battle. Orlais, meanwhile, has been at the front of several Blights, and kept the Wardens strong. Consider, as well, that if the Hero of Ferelden dies in DA:O, then an Orlesian becomes Warden-Commander in DA:O:A.

[Keltest]

That was only the Aardens in Ferelsen, and there were in-game reasons for why the order was relatively small there. I do recall Riordan saying there were sizeable numbers of Wardens in other nations.

Indeed. The wardens have only been allowed back into Ferelden for what, a generation? In other nations, they are an actual army, able to fight an army of darkspawn in relative safety.

I would also like to add that the Templars are apparently not especially good at hunting down apostates from outside the circle. The Hawkes managed mostly fine until they got to Kirkwall, Dalish has been with the Bull's Chargers for a while, and there are a lot of mage enemies roaming around southern Thedas in Origins and Inquisition.

[Morty]

The Mage/Templar debate has so many different sides to it that it's a lot more complicated than simply Security vs. Freedom. For instance, what's your feelings on blood magic? On Tranquility? On employing spirits in magic?

I'm looking forward to seeing Tevinter because it represents the opposite side of the coin:?where mages are not the oppressed, but the oppressors. I imagine a few of the more diehard mage freedom types will have their heads explode.

I do wonder how BioWare will reconcile their pro-mage skew with the political reality of Tevinter. Then again, we're also likely to see more Qunari, for obvious reasons - and their treatment of mages makes the Chantry look like hippies.


The idea is, though, that lyrium gives them the ability to combat mages without themselves being mages, so what other choice do they have? It would be nice if you could have the Templars also be mages, since that would give an interesting conflict, but the Tevinter Imperium gives you an idea of what happens when mages are given the ability to govern themselves and others--demonic possession incidents are pretty much considered a cost of doing business, and blood magic usage is rife.

That's the point, yes. The addiction and mental erosion versus the usefulness, or arguably necessity, of Templar abilities. That being said, even if the Templar Order keeps using lyrium, full disclosure and a freedom to quit before the effects become irreversible certainly wouldn't hurt. It's not like a Templar who stopped taking lyrium stops being a capable, veteran warrior.


I do wonder how much of the story in later Dragon Age games comes because they didn't really expect the first one to be successful enough to warrant a sequel, though. The Grey Wardens are a particularly odd point to my mind--in the first game they seemed to be a dying order with very few members, yet by the time we get to Inquisition there are hundreds of them? And this doesn't seem to be down to simple "Oh, we had a Blight so we'd better get the Grey Warden population up again" thing either.

I think it's less about not expecting it to spawn a sequel, and not being certain if it will. That being said, the various endings to Dragon Age: Origins come to mind - of all the favours Alistair or Anora can grant you, I don't think a single one actually comes into play later.

[Kish]

I do wonder how BioWare will reconcile their pro-mage skew with the political reality of Tevinter.
I think all the arguments along these lines miss the point. Continuing to uphold "it's wrong to treat any people like they're things rather than people" will continue to come out as it has for three games (hopefully better without Gaider and his insistence on trying to pretend clear-cut areas are actually grey, first with Loghain and then with imprisoning mages). Vaughan Kendell, Loghain, Anora, Rendon Howe, Meredith, Empress Celene, and Duke Gaspard didn't make it impossible to treat humans as people, so I don't know why the Tevinter government would make anyone have a sudden head-exploding "wait, mages aren't people!" epiphany.

(Though, separate from the latest iteration of do-you-see-the-value-in-mage-slavery-yet?-how-about-now? from Dienekes and Giggling Ghast, I do wonder how they're going to depict Tevinter, not in terms of "how do we continue to treat mages as sympathetic while showing this?" but just in terms of--it doesn't sound like a functional society. At all. It sounds like a ten-year-old aspiring writer's first Evil Empire. Unless they suddenly go back on everything they've said about Tevinter being a place where everyone in control is a monster, I don't know how the PC could possibly function there. "Do you support Gaspard, Celene, or Briala?" has a lot of player investment even for those who, like me, think they're all pretty thoroughly evil. "Do you support Mustache-Twirling Black-Hatted Caricature 1 or or Mustache-Twirling Black-Hatted Caricature 2?" is likely to be harder to pull off.)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I dunno, I haven't honestly finished Inquisition yet, but I thought they've added a good bit of nuance. Before Inquisition, Tevinter had Mage Overlords and Slaves and that was it. Inquisition clarified a lot, how the government involved a level of democracy, a level of sexual and gender freedom not seen elsewhere in Thedas, plus, of course, the introduction of the Soporoti class, most of whom doubtlessly live their lives like anyone anywhere in a functioning urbanized society.

[Keltest]

For my part, I imagine Tevinter's magical political scheming as being largely separate from the general governing. Yeah, theyre technically in charge, but they probably have people who do things like negotiate trade and deal with the logistics of running an empire for them. Think House Telvanni from the elder scrolls.

[Giggling Ghast]

The Wiki has a fairly detailed breakdown of Tevinter society, which was detailed in World of Thedas Volume 1. Dorian helped flush out a few things.

The Imperial Senate, incidentally, is divided into the Magisterium and the Publicanium, which are the bureaucrats. All real power rests with the Magisterium. Of course, as Dorian says, the fiction in the Imperium is that mages don't rule — the Magisterium does. That all Magisters are mages is just a happy coincidence!

As for the pro-mage crowd, I've seen people argue that Fiona was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to sell her people into slavery indentured servitude to the Venatori and other fun such arguments. They really only care about beating the Templars.

[Anteros]

What's your opinion on Mages and Templars? Anyone?

I think that despite Bioware's rather obvious attempts to skew the narrative towards "Mages should be free just like anyone" we've still spent the entirety of the series cleaning up after their messes, and stepping over the corpses of the innocents who just happened to be around them.

Almost every major tragedy in the series can be laid at the feet of some mage. The Templars are obviously a bit corrupt, and abuse their power over the mages, but that doesn't mean they aren't necessary. Their organization needs heavy reform, but without them the world would be much worse.

I sided with the mages for the first two games, but by the third I went with the Templars because I'm tired of constantly having to save these idiots from themselves. If they want to destroy themselves so badly that it literally takes a "chosen one" coming around every few years to stop it, who am I to stand in their way?

[VoxRationis]

I've begun my very first playthrough of Dragon Age: Inquisition. Well, I "begun" my playthrough before last Christmas, but I was on a Skyrim kick for a bit and have only come back to the game lately. Right now I just got to Skyhold, so I figure I'm about halfway through. I should probably have begun discussing my opinions as I went through, but here's my reactions to things:
I'm playing a female elf mage. Apparently that makes you automatically a Dalish, so I'm rolling with that full force, constantly telling everyone that I don't believe in their shemlen god and am not this "Herald of Andraste" they won't stop talking about. Of all my party members, my character gravitates to Solas, as he seems a font of information about the elven civilization that was. By contrast, I get along with Vivienne like oil gets along with water; she supports the Chantry and Circles wholeheartedly, while I don't want either institution to continue existing. Almost everything I do seems to inspire a "Vivienne disapproves" reaction, and I'm okay with that.
I'm not fond of the gameplay. I'll start with that. It suffers from mega-inflation of hit points, something I'm not a big fan of. Fights take forever, even when I'm just polishing off a lone enemy. Moreover, there's so much busywork! All these power requirements to go to the story quests mean I have to spend hours grinding in the wilderness, doing odd fetch quests and the like. I like the dialogue, the characters, and the story so far, but I feel like I have to do way too much work to get to it. The overworld also feels like an MMO, with enemies that don't see me until I come into a specific radius (rather than LOS) and enemies that spawn periodically, particularly after I load the game. I've been ambushed by overpowering encounters because of respawns upon loading the game, which seems unfair.

The lack of out-and-out healing spells (barring the odd specialization talent) and out-of-combat healing is interesting. It creates a definite resource management aspect that wasn't there in Origins, since any wound you take is persistent. I can only travel so far from a camp before I start running out of healing potions, though that distance seems to be increasing on account of my tanks getting better over time and more than one mage learning the Barrier spell.

Inventory management is rough in this campaign, something which is a common complaint for Bioware games and one which I usually ignore, but managing all the item customization slots is a pain because I can't do it in the field and I can't compare the stats of weapons independent of those customization slots either. I also can't see how good a schematic I get is without analyzing its properties against the resources I have available to me, so I'm not sure whether I should be crafting my light and medium armors out of whole cloth or sticking with what I've picked up. Another issue I have with inventory management is that it won't let me swap between weapon sets like Origins would let me. Last time I checked, I couldn't even swap manually through the inventory screen mid-combat. My warriors now can only hit in melee and my rogues are forced into specialization between melee and ranged. Worse, my mages often find their staves useless because of enemies' elemental resistances—I've had to maintain a policy of making all my mages carry staves exclusively of the element they don't use with their spells.


Cassandra: We sort of got off on the wrong foot, what with her blaming me for killing the Divine Justinia, and I've mostly avoided talking to her whenever possible. Ever since I picked up Blackwall, I've mostly ignored Cassandra, as I've found him to be the better tank (partly because I was able to build him to be a better tank, having found him shortly before Haven's destruction and thus being better-acquainted with the flow of combat in the game.)

Varric: I didn't play DA2, so I have no fond memories of this character. He's nice enough, I suppose.

Solas: I like this guy. His knowledge of ancient Arlathan makes him the sort of guy I want to ask a lot of questions. My Dalish mage flirts with him every now and then, in the midst of their otherwise-deep conversations. I've built him to be heavy on the barrier support, with several passives supporting that spell, and my non-tanks have noticeably better survivability when he's in the party.

Dorian: Strangely, I like him as well. He, being a Tevinter mage, kind of hits a sore spot for most southerners, but particularly for Solas and me, but the conversations between him and Solas are entertaining, and his larger-than-life persona is as well. He was disturbingly cavalier about slavery when we discussed it, especially given that the conversation beforehand made it clear that he was well aware of the blood sacrifices Tevinter mages perform, but he seems to have a strong moral compass otherwise. I'll just weigh his inputs with a grain of salt. Since finding Skyhold and unlocking the Necromancer specialization, I've come up with an amusing combo: I trap a group of enemies in Static Cage and then he hits them with Horror, watching them mill about and bounce off the border of the cage.

Sera: A flat-nosed Cockney city elf who strangely is met in Val Royeaux, rather than Ferelden. She seems to care for little other than pestering nobles and making money. Not a huge fan of her, though her skills are very useful, and her specialization ability that allows her to ignore stamina and cooldown for her abilities can make for an impressive first-strike nova. Her skepticism of nobility and clergy is good for keeping me grounded, though.

Blackwall: I haven't much to say about him personally, but he's been a positive boon to the party—a far better boon than Cassandra or Iron Bull.

Iron Bull: Affable enough, but a Qunari spy nonetheless, and the Qun is if anything even more oppressive than the Chantry. I'll have to keep an eye on him. He's also not that useful in combat, being a warrior geared to damage-dealing in a game series that mostly reserves that for the rogues. Sword and shield serve me better, especially with Vanguard talents to draw enemy fire. Perhaps if I were playing the tank, I would appreciate him more, but much like Sten before him, Iron Bull struggles with the primary purpose of warriors in Dragon Age.

Cole: I hate that hat! I decided to sell it first thing, without even waiting to find a replacement, since I hate that hat so much. Cole is creepy, to say the least, and we'll have to be careful about what we expose him to, lest he come to the conclusion that the world needs the "mercy" of being ended, but I have been needing a double-dagger rogue, especially what with the cool daggers I've been finding.
I was also touched when dialogue I overheard around Skyhold implied that Cole threw a bag of turnips into the kitchen fire so a dying soldier could smell his mother's turnip soup one last time.

Vivienne: Not getting along with her. She loves the Chantry and the Circles, and I love neither. What's worse is her hypocrisy. She operates with little supervision and casually abuses her power (she was going to suffocate a man at her salon when I first met her), but she demands that all these other mages be under constant Templar supervision. I prefer bringing Solas or Dorian if I want another mage in the party. On the other hand, she's a Knight-Enchanter, and that spirit blade sounds like it'll be useful against barrier-using opponents like Despair Demons; I might take that specialization myself.

[Dienekes]

I've begun my very first playthrough of Dragon Age: Inquisition. Well, I "begun" my playthrough before last Christmas, but I was on a Skyrim kick for a bit and have only come back to the game lately. Right now I just got to Skyhold, so I figure I'm about halfway through. I should probably have begun discussing my opinions as I went through, but here's my reactions to things:
I'm playing a female elf mage. Apparently that makes you automatically a Dalish, so I'm rolling with that full force, constantly telling everyone that I don't believe in their shemlen god and am not this "Herald of Andraste" they won't stop talking about. Of all my party members, my character gravitates to Solas, as he seems a font of information about the elven civilization that was. By contrast, I get along with Vivienne like oil gets along with water; she supports the Chantry and Circles wholeheartedly, while I don't want either institution to continue existing. Almost everything I do seems to inspire a "Vivienne disapproves" reaction, and I'm okay with that.
I'm not fond of the gameplay. I'll start with that. It suffers from mega-inflation of hit points, something I'm not a big fan of. Fights take forever, even when I'm just polishing off a lone enemy. Moreover, there's so much busywork! All these power requirements to go to the story quests mean I have to spend hours grinding in the wilderness, doing odd fetch quests and the like. I like the dialogue, the characters, and the story so far, but I feel like I have to do way too much work to get to it. The overworld also feels like an MMO, with enemies that don't see me until I come into a specific radius (rather than LOS) and enemies that spawn periodically, particularly after I load the game. I've been ambushed by overpowering encounters because of respawns upon loading the game, which seems unfair.

The lack of out-and-out healing spells (barring the odd specialization talent) and out-of-combat healing is interesting. It creates a definite resource management aspect that wasn't there in Origins, since any wound you take is persistent. I can only travel so far from a camp before I start running out of healing potions, though that distance seems to be increasing on account of my tanks getting better over time and more than one mage learning the Barrier spell.

Inventory management is rough in this campaign, something which is a common complaint for Bioware games and one which I usually ignore, but managing all the item customization slots is a pain because I can't do it in the field and I can't compare the stats of weapons independent of those customization slots either. I also can't see how good a schematic I get is without analyzing its properties against the resources I have available to me, so I'm not sure whether I should be crafting my light and medium armors out of whole cloth or sticking with what I've picked up. Another issue I have with inventory management is that it won't let me swap between weapon sets like Origins would let me. Last time I checked, I couldn't even swap manually through the inventory screen mid-combat. My warriors now can only hit in melee and my rogues are forced into specialization between melee and ranged. Worse, my mages often find their staves useless because of enemies' elemental resistances—I've had to maintain a policy of making all my mages carry staves exclusively of the element they don't use with their spells.


Cassandra: We sort of got off on the wrong foot, what with her blaming me for killing the Divine Justinia, and I've mostly avoided talking to her whenever possible. Ever since I picked up Blackwall, I've mostly ignored Cassandra, as I've found him to be the better tank (partly because I was able to build him to be a better tank, having found him shortly before Haven's destruction and thus being better-acquainted with the flow of combat in the game.)

Varric: I didn't play DA2, so I have no fond memories of this character. He's nice enough, I suppose.

Solas: I like this guy. His knowledge of ancient Arlathan makes him the sort of guy I want to ask a lot of questions. My Dalish mage flirts with him every now and then, in the midst of their otherwise-deep conversations. I've built him to be heavy on the barrier support, with several passives supporting that spell, and my non-tanks have noticeably better survivability when he's in the party.

Dorian: Strangely, I like him as well. He, being a Tevinter mage, kind of hits a sore spot for most southerners, but particularly for Solas and me, but the conversations between him and Solas are entertaining, and his larger-than-life persona is as well. He was disturbingly cavalier about slavery when we discussed it, especially given that the conversation beforehand made it clear that he was well aware of the blood sacrifices Tevinter mages perform, but he seems to have a strong moral compass otherwise. I'll just weigh his inputs with a grain of salt. Since finding Skyhold and unlocking the Necromancer specialization, I've come up with an amusing combo: I trap a group of enemies in Static Cage and then he hits them with Horror, watching them mill about and bounce off the border of the cage.

Sera: A flat-nosed Cockney city elf who strangely is met in Val Royeaux, rather than Ferelden. She seems to care for little other than pestering nobles and making money. Not a huge fan of her, though her skills are very useful, and her specialization ability that allows her to ignore stamina and cooldown for her abilities can make for an impressive first-strike nova. Her skepticism of nobility and clergy is good for keeping me grounded, though.

Blackwall: I haven't much to say about him personally, but he's been a positive boon to the party—a far better boon than Cassandra or Iron Bull.

Iron Bull: Affable enough, but a Qunari spy nonetheless, and the Qun is if anything even more oppressive than the Chantry. I'll have to keep an eye on him. He's also not that useful in combat, being a warrior geared to damage-dealing in a game series that mostly reserves that for the rogues. Sword and shield serve me better, especially with Vanguard talents to draw enemy fire. Perhaps if I were playing the tank, I would appreciate him more, but much like Sten before him, Iron Bull struggles with the primary purpose of warriors in Dragon Age.

Cole: I hate that hat! I decided to sell it first thing, without even waiting to find a replacement, since I hate that hat so much. Cole is creepy, to say the least, and we'll have to be careful about what we expose him to, lest he come to the conclusion that the world needs the "mercy" of being ended, but I have been needing a double-dagger rogue, especially what with the cool daggers I've been finding.
I was also touched when dialogue I overheard around Skyhold implied that Cole threw a bag of turnips into the kitchen fire so a dying soldier could smell his mother's turnip soup one last time.

Vivienne: Not getting along with her. She loves the Chantry and the Circles, and I love neither. What's worse is her hypocrisy. She operates with little supervision and casually abuses her power (she was going to suffocate a man at her salon when I first met her), but she demands that all these other mages be under constant Templar supervision. I prefer bringing Solas or Dorian if I want another mage in the party. On the other hand, she's a Knight-Enchanter, and that spirit blade sounds like it'll be useful against barrier-using opponents like Despair Demons; I might take that specialization myself.

Yeah I'm with you on the gameplay. I do find it interesting that with your pick, you chose the one character in which Solas doesn't come across as a racist ass to you.

"All Qunari are monster, only shackled by the Qun. Why aren't you a monster?" **** you Solas.

"I thought all humans were gross half brained mud monkeys who solve problems with violence." **** you, Solas.

"Most dwarves are over practical non-dreamers with no imagination." **** you, Solas.

Anyway for the combat, I had this stupid macho idea that I would beat the game on the hardest difficulties to show how awesome I am. But the thing is the combat isn't hard and the biggest hurdle are the enemies gargantuan health bars. If I can make a suggestion if you aren't having fun with it, just crank the difficulty to minimum and go through the game. The combat becomes less boring because it goes by quicker, and it opens up your party composition so you can experience all the companions interaction and really learn their characters.

In my case going through the game a second time that way really helped me appreciate more of the characters even the ones I disagreed with.

Except Sera. She's terrible.

[Morty]

Combat and exploration being a slog you need to chew through to get to the good parts is a very common impression of Inquisition.

That being said, I'd rather take Inquisition's clusters of enemies than DA2's constant ambushes out of thin air. At least in DA:I, I can see them in advance, and their placement makes a measure of in-universe sense.

[Kish]

I find the lack of airlifted enemy waves a marked improvement, for my part.

(Not that I've ever played a Dragon Age game for the combat.)

[Keltest]

I find the lack of airlifted enemy waves a marked improvement, for my part.

(Not that I've ever played a Dragon Age game for the combat.)

Agreed. None of the games have especially amazing combat, but Inquisition's is tolerable enough, and I derive some mild satisfaction from assassinating people with my rogue's burst damage from stealth.

[S@tanicoaldo]

What's your opinion on Mages and Templars? Anyone?

The Tevinter Imperium was right all along, mages should rule and blood magic is just part of life.

Maybe all mages should be sent to an independent nation where they can rule themselves and not bring fear to the inferior humans, Kind of like Magneto’s Genosha.

Now that we know all the bad things people used to blame on mages and blood magic are lies and chantry propaganda and the truth is that it was all caused by elfish shenanigans we are safe to say mages were right and oppressed all along.
The only thing that keeps the Imperium from being perfect is the slavery.

[Morty]

Come to think of it, Vox Rationis brings up an interesting point. Two-handed warriors do exist in a weird space between shield warriors and rogues - they can't really tank, but they don't melt on contact with enemy like rogues. Unless we mean archer rogues, who can pump out damage from a safe distance. But archer rogues serve more or less the same role as melee ones, their borderline OP aside. Then again, I was able to manage with Iron Bull being the only warrior in my party, so they do have some tanking potential. Still a weird halfway-through position. But that's what there being three narrow classes leads to.

[Keltest]

Come to think of it, Vox Rationis brings up an interesting point. Two-handed warriors do exist in a weird space between shield warriors and rogues - they can't really tank, but they don't melt on contact with enemy like rogues. Unless we mean archer rogues, who can pump out damage from a safe distance. But archer rogues serve more or less the same role as melee ones, their borderline OP aside. Then again, I was able to manage with Iron Bull being the only warrior in my party, so they do have some tanking potential. Still a weird halfway-through position. But that's what there being three narrow classes leads to.

Ive discovered that 2h warriors can actually throw around a lot of AoE damage. Ive got one playthrough that's my dwarf reaver and Iron Bull as the frontline backed by two mages for barriers. Iron Bull has whirlwind with the upgrade that pulls in enemies, and my character is focused on the 2h AoE abilities to hit the poor guys he pulls in. While it isn't as effective versus bosses as having a rogue for DPS, ive found it actually kills most grunts better than having a rogue.

[Morty]

I never said they were bad, just that they occupy a bit of a weird place in the game's mechanics. I played a two-handed warrior in DA2 and liked it; Iron Bull is solid enough in Inquisition but I'll never use two-handers there myself. I'm trying to decide on my axe/shield reaver's race now. It's either elf or qunari.

[Giggling Ghast]

I never said they were bad, just that they occupy a bit of a weird place in the game's mechanics. I played a two-handed warrior in DA2 and liked it; Iron Bull is solid enough in Inquisition but I'll never use two-handers there myself. I'm trying to decide on my axe/shield reaver's race now. It's either elf or qunari.

Male or female? Aesthetically, I prefer female elves and male qunari.

You could be a lady elf, romance Iron Bull and then cringe as you imagine their sex life! :smalltongue:

[Dienekes]

Male or female? Aesthetically, I prefer female elves and male qunari.

You could be a lady elf, romance Iron Bull and then cringe as you imagine their sex life! :smalltongue:

This brings up an interesting line of thought. Can Bull romance a female dwarf? And if so... how?

[Keltest]

This brings up an interesting line of thought. Can Bull romance a female dwarf? And if so... how?

Violently, id imagine.

[Morty]

Male or female? Aesthetically, I prefer female elves and male qunari.

You could be a lady elf, romance Iron Bull and then cringe as you imagine their sex life! :smalltongue:

Male. I want to try Dorian's romance, since I like him as a character.

I'm leaning towards an elf, just because a screaming, blood-crazed elf berserker is more atypical than a qunari one. But I also want to side with templars again, and it feels a bit... out of character for a Dalish elf?


This brings up an interesting line of thought. Can Bull romance a female dwarf? And if so... how?

Bull can romance anyone. And I do wish I'd romanced him with my dwarf Inquisitor, just to see what it looks like.