How common is the "uncanny valley" response?

[Togath]

I've certainly read about the uncanny valley, and seen a lot of examples...
But it's never actually triggered for me. Is it just not that common? Or am I in some minority of folks without it?

[Razade]

Fairly common. It's a psychological response to threat reception.

[Grinner]

There's some controversy surrounding the uncanny valley. I've read assertions somewhere that there's little basis for the hypothesis and that the hypothesis has been taken on faith. Research, according to Wikipedia, has been done which supports the hypothesis somewhat, but the listed examples don't seem to address the criticisms levied against the uncanny valley.

[factotum]

It doesn't really affect me either, that I've ever been able to tell. Maybe that's why I don't find zombie flicks particularly interesting, because I don't suffer the instinctive revulsion you're supposed to get at seeing a corpse shambling around?

Maybe you should have put up a poll to see what the balance is between those affected and those not, at least as far as the readership of the Playground goes?

[Ninja_Prawn]

So you're saying you're not horrified by these hollow, lifeless eyes (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/13/robots-human-uncanny-valley#img-1)? If there's a poll, I definitely experience revulsion when I see things that are almost, but not quite, human.

[Fri]

uncanny valley isn't necessarily about revulsion. There might be a bit of misunderstanding about it recently.

It's comparison between: 1. Human likeness. and 2. Familiarity/Affinity. Starting from a completely unrealistic (without human likeness) shape, if you increase the human likeness, people will feel more familiar/affinity to the shape, basically considering it looking more and more like human.

But once you went through certain threshold of human likeness, the familiarity/affinity will drop dramatically. That's the "valley." You feel uncanny about it because at that point, you start to notice that it's actually not realistic human shape, and you start to notice the unrealistic details. But if you start to raise the human likeness again, adding more and more details, at some point it will rise dramatically, since it's now realistic enough.

Basically, think for example an animated cartoon. First you start with completely unrealistic caricature. It's very unlike human shape, and you don't mind it.

Then there's another cartoon. The people there are drawn more realistically. It looks nicer, or more realistic for your eyes.

Then there's another cartoon. This time it's 3d cgi. it's even more realistic from before. It looks nice and realistic, but still obviously cartoony enough that you can just consider the bigger eyes and different proportions as stylistic choice.

And then, someone attempt to make a more realistic 3d cgi cartoon. But at this point you notice that you don't like the graphic/design as much as before. It's more realistic than the previous attempt, the facial proportion are realistic, the limb proportion are as real human. But you notice some details that's not there because it's more realistic than before. The models don't blink well. They don't breathe well. But why does this feel less "realistic" or "good" than the previous attempt, while it's obviously more realistic design and animation?

Then, the in the next attempt, techonology improves, and now they improve the realistic cgi model. Now they blink better, and the model breathe more naturally. Now you enjoy the cartoon again and find the 3d models "nice" again.

That fourth attempt, where the likeability of the model drops because you notice the missing details eventhough it's more realistic than the previous ones, that is the uncanny valley.

[factotum]

So you're saying you're not horrified by these hollow, lifeless eyes (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/13/robots-human-uncanny-valley#img-1)?

Not really, because I recognise that as being something that clearly isn't human. Maybe what's actually happening here is that my valley is further over toward the "human" end of the spectrum than yours?

[Togath]

uncanny valley isn't necessarily about revulsion. There might be a bit of misunderstanding about it recently.

It's comparison between: 1. Human likeness. and 2. Familiarity/Affinity. Starting from a completely unrealistic (without human likeness) shape, if you increase the human likeness, people will feel more familiar/affinity to the shape, basically considering it looking more and more like human.

But once you went through certain threshold of human likeness, the familiarity/affinity will drop dramatically. That's the "valley." You feel uncanny about it because at that point, you start to notice that it's actually not realistic human shape, and you start to notice the unrealistic details. But if you start to raise the human likeness again, adding more and more details, at some point it will rise dramatically, since it's now realistic enough.

Basically, think for example an animated cartoon. First you start with completely unrealistic caricature. It's very unlike human shape, and you don't mind it.

Then there's another cartoon. The people there are drawn more realistically. It looks nicer, or more realistic for your eyes.

Then there's another cartoon. This time it's 3d cgi. it's even more realistic from before. It looks nice and realistic, but still obviously cartoony enough that you can just consider the bigger eyes and different proportions as stylistic choice.

And then, someone attempt to make a more realistic 3d cgi cartoon. But at this point you notice that you don't like the graphic/design as much as before. It's more realistic than the previous attempt, the facial proportion are realistic, the limb proportion are as real human. But you notice some details that's not there because it's more realistic than before. The models don't blink well. They don't breathe well. But why does this feel less "realistic" or "good" than the previous attempt, while it's obviously more realistic design and animation?

Then, the in the next attempt, techonology improves, and now they improve the realistic cgi model. Now they blink better, and the model breathe more naturally. Now you enjoy the cartoon again and find the 3d models "nice" again.

That fourth attempt, where the likeability of the model drops because you notice the missing details eventhough it's more realistic than the previous ones, that is the uncanny valley.

The issue is... I don't even have that. Like, I just don't have different feelings toward the "human but wrong somehow" feeling than to either the stages before or after it.:smallconfused:

Also posting the poll (http://www.strawpoll.me/11787160) suggested~

[noparlpf]

Hmm. Stuff like androids with human faces is a bit like, creepy, I guess? Unnerving? Not outright scary or revolting but it's "off" enough to be flagged as weird by the ol' hypothalamus or whatever. Zombies are also in my top three phobias and the only irrational one (along with heights, which is reasonable, and maggots, which is reasonable).

[Blackhawk748]

The Japanese droids get me on occasion, but only when i first see them. Afterwards it wears off.

However this gets me a lot


http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/pathfinder/images/d/dc/Kitsune.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150203155213


And ive realized is because its not Human or Fox enough. Its right at the sweet spot where it weirds me out, its most obvious in the legs.

[enderlord99]

I said "yes" on the poll, but I actually find it funny rather than scary.

[DracoknightZero]

The reaction to the "Uncanny" is dependant on the person and the scale of the uncanny object is at. Forexample you have the "creepy scale" when it comes to dolls, forexample those baby dolls that was extremly popular during the 90s (and still are?) and you could argue that wax dolls have a uncanny likeness to the person in question.

Maybe you might want to look at a "scale" of the uncanny valley and see what your point of "uncanny valley" is? And for the example of zombies... well... we have killed them in videogames since we were barely old enough to hold a controller (at least me) so they would never have the effect of "creepy" to gamers.

[veti]

Zombies were scary - until about 1978, when Dawn of the Dead was released, and since then they've just been decomposing steadily. I don't understand how modern producers don't get this, because it seems to me like Screenwriting 101: the more grotesque you make them, the less scary they are.

I haven't yet seen a robot that triggered any 'uncanny valley' effect for me. Some humans (http://www.humanbarbie.org/gallery.html) can do it, though.

[Strigon]

Zombies were scary - until about 1978, when Dawn of the Dead was released, and since then they've just been decomposing steadily.

Wah-waah

Anyway, I don't really get the Uncanny Valley effect, but horror with almost-human predatory creatures gets me.
Not vampires and zombies, really, but other stuff.


http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/creepypasta/images/0/04/The_Rake.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130731220054


Some of Lovecraft's stuff (http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/bc.aspx), and the occasional short horror film (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNbJE0y29_c)



Not sure if it's related in any way to uncanny valley, but it's something similar.

[Frozen_Feet]

I've managed to trigger this effect in other people by wearing sunglasses, red contacts, and combination of black and white facepaint.

[RazorChain]

Just watch the Polar Express.....that's a train that leads straight into uncanny valley

[Togath]

Just watch the Polar Express.....that's a train that leads straight into uncanny valley

It doesn't trigger it at all for me.
I've honestly never understood why it's so widely cited as an example of uncanny valley triggering visuals.

[AvatarVecna]

I haven't really noticed it myself; things I see people react to look weird to me, but not in a "oh god what the hell is that thing" way, but more in a "something's off about this animation/animatronic, but I'm not quite sure what it is..." way.

[AdmiralCatticus]

It certainly is a real thing, as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't really ever happen under circumstances that would actually concern people, not for most of us. A lot of uncanny valley responses are probably overreactions, and people who have genuine severe responses are probably deep in the throws of some kind of paranoia or insecurity, as identifying something as humanly false would probably effect them most? And at the same time those people would probably have those responses much more often. But I'm not exactly a professor of uncanny valley. Just opinions.

[Vinyadan]

Hmm. Stuff like androids with human faces is a bit like, creepy, I guess? Unnerving? Not outright scary or revolting but it's "off" enough to be flagged as weird by the ol' hypothalamus or whatever. Zombies are also in my top three phobias and the only irrational one (along with heights, which is reasonable, and maggots, which is reasonable).

The original Robocop was very upsetting to me when he was maskless, but mainly because I felt sorry for him.

[Scarlet Knight]

I guess I went through it with Diablo (fine) to Oblivion ( not ) to Skyrim ( great).

[Spanish_Paladin]

I have not any problem with the appearance of a robot or android, i am fine with it. The creepy part is the empathy for humans (in fact the probable lack of it) of a future artificial intelligence.

[Thorin Ironfist]

I guess I went through it with Diablo (fine) to Oblivion ( not ) to Skyrim ( great).

Thank you! I love Oblivion, but the human npc's just make it feel like a horror game for me. The zoom in dialogue really bothers me because it totally removes my peripheral vision. Anyone else?

[Icewraith]

A couple years ago I was braving the mall during the Christmas season, I remember a jewelry store that had a talking person on a screen that was human shaped (if you looked at it directly from the front). It had this big white frame, also human shaped.

So there's this probably totally human actress delivering her speech on the screen. But her image is plastered on this 2D screen and the frame wasn't quite shaped to her figure. I'm pretty sure they digitally resized the woman to fit the frame. Or something, because I remember something being very distorted about the face. I think she was standing in a fairly static position, holding something with both hands (probably whatever she was talking about) that would have been maybe above her navel (so her arms formed kind of a triangle shape) and the frame actually followed the shape of her arms.

In any case, it was unpleasant to look at (not the fault of the actress) from the front and increasingly horrifying if you looked at it from an angle. I don't remember many people being in the store compared to the surrounding stores.

[veti]

Thank you! I love Oblivion, but the human npc's just make it feel like a horror game for me.

That's not "uncanny valley", though, that's just "butt ugly". Everyone who played Oblivion noticed that. Pretty much first thing, when they were trying to make their own characters look half-way tolerable.

[TechnOkami]

Something something Uncanney Valley something something have a Vsauce Video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEikGKDVsCc)

[Kio]

I would say that it's likely, as you've stated, that your valley is most likely just smaller than most others. Certainly there would be a point somewhere where your brain would struggle with the distinction between human and non-human. For you it would most likely be extremely subtle. Perhaps as technology takes us closer and closer to human-like bots you'll eventually see one that bugs you...
Or maybe not! There's no law that says you have to have one XD

[sktarq]

I get rather strongly. While I'm not a fan of animation in general when it gets to a certain point of realism its lack of true realism becomes increasingly distracting. It can totally blow engagement/suspension of disbelief in a movie or game (which is not very strong at all to begin with)
Totally made up stuff (say Slimer in Ghost Busters or Roger Rabbit) doesn't cause the same error search effect that Tarkin or Leia in Rogue One does.

While clearest in humans it happens for other things too.

[Fiery Diamond]

Zombies were scary - until about 1978, when Dawn of the Dead was released, and since then they've just been decomposing steadily. I don't understand how modern producers don't get this, because it seems to me like Screenwriting 101: the more grotesque you make them, the less scary they are.

I haven't yet seen a robot that triggered any 'uncanny valley' effect for me. Some humans (http://www.humanbarbie.org/gallery.html) can do it, though.

Oh god... *shudders* She looks like a freaking Barbie doll. It really creeps me out. Definite uncanny valley there. The bizarre thing, though, is that if I were told that was a robot or doll, I wouldn't have that reaction. It's because she's human but "not right" that I react that way.