Finally saw Suicide Squad

[Avilan the Grey]

I liked it. It wasn't great, but I liked it.

Today's thoughts:
1. Waller needs to die. Seriously.
2. The Joker is... 50% awesome, 50% WTF (in a bad way). Ditch the teeth and tattoos and I'm on board with this.
3. Robbie is fantastic.
4. Best performance by Smith in years.
5. Enchantress really wasn't interesting. The movie desperately needed an interesting villain. I mean she had to compete with Waller AND her group of well... interesting villains.
6. The CGI was quite bad. The Brother was awful.

[Hopeless]

Isn't there an extended version of this just like they did with Batman Vs Superman?

Hopefully they didn't mess up as badly as they did with the theatrical cut of BvS except it should include all those bits they removed from the cinema release that got Jared Leto so annoyed!

[Avilan the Grey]

Isn't there an extended version of this just like they did with Batman Vs Superman?

Hopefully they didn't mess up as badly as they did with the theatrical cut of BvS except it should include all those bits they removed from the cinema release that got Jared Leto so annoyed!

I think so, though they also, last minute, re-cut the original theatrical release to add more humor (aka more Harley).
Speaking of which, I wish they would make a solo movie with her after WW instead of the next Batman

[DiscipleofBob]

I think so, though they also, last minute, re-cut the original theatrical release to add more humor (aka more Harley).
Speaking of which, I wish they would make a solo movie with her after WW instead of the next Batman

Actually Margot Robbie is greenlighted to do a solo Harley Quinn movie. We probably won't here any details until after Affleck's solo Batman movie, but rumor has it the plan is to focus on more female characters, like Poison Ivy and Barbara Gordon (either as Batgirl or Oracle).

[Anonymouswizard]

Actually Margot Robbie is greenlighted to do a solo Harley Quinn movie. We probably won't here any details until after Affleck's solo Batman movie, but rumor has it the plan is to focus on more female characters, like Poison Ivy and Barbara Gordon (either as Batgirl or Oracle).

So the movie is going to be Harley Quinn's Harem? I could watch that, although it would have to have a good plot in addition to humour.

Anyway, this thread has made me decide to watch Suicide Squad, it sounds like a decent way to waste a few hours when I have them and don't want anything amazing.

[Hopeless]

I watched and bought a copy of Assault on Arkham, which I wholeheartedly enjoyed!
The only reason I imagine why they didn't do a live action version of that is because Deadshot demonstrated why you don't mess around with him!
Oh regarding that comment about Waller... watch the above movie you ESPECIALLY will like it!😉
I bought a novelisation of the movie and am about half way through which is why I'm not interested in the movie.
And if they continue this trend of messing up theatrical releases and only release the full movie on blu ray I won't be bothering seeing ANY of their movies at the cinema or pick up the DVD either!
Shame really the Wonder Woman movie looks interesting!

[lord_khaine]

1. Waller needs to die. Seriously.

She gives the Joker a run for his money on the biggest monster account. She is certainly just as bad as any of the people she has locked away.

[Kato]

So the movie is going to be Harley Quinn's Harem? I could watch that, although it would have to have a good plot in addition to humour.

... Must ... Not... Make... Dirty joke...

Ahem, I'm sure Robbie could carry a movie on her own, if it's well written. I'd mostly be worried they'd try and fail to make it like deadpool.. Again. But Harley, Ivy, Barbara are all good characters to put in a movie. Or, you know, also include a man.

[anotherthumb]

İf they take all of'em and set them loose much more free setting, like if they have to fund their hunt someway, it would be much better film.

[lord_khaine]

Ahem, I'm sure Robbie could carry a movie on her own, if it's well written. I'd mostly be worried they'd try and fail to make it like deadpool.. Again. But Harley, Ivy, Barbara are all good characters to put in a movie. Or, you know, also include a man.

I think Nightwing would be perfect for this, mainly since he has a broader range of emotions than Batman. He could most likely fit in well as straight man/foil to the slightly more chaotic girls.

[Traab]

I think the biggest rumor is it will be a birds of prey film with harley as the villain/main character or something. So this may very well be a girl power super flick with the power coming from the good guys and bad guys. Im hoping this is both true and works well as we need more ladies in the super genre. As for suicide squad, I liked it ok, my main problem was, they introduced WAAAAAAY too many characters for one film so everything felt rushed. As for the joker, im not sure, I got the feeling that, if we had been able to focus more on him and develop his character, it wouldnt have sucked so bad. Would we have liked heath ledgers joker if he got like 5-10 minutes of screen time? I doubt it.

[Avilan the Grey]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/5c/62/87/5c6287ba07c49d18825bdec7500cae43.jpg

[DiscipleofBob]

My second hope for a Harley Quinn movie is that is ends up something like a Gotham City Sirens VS Birds of Prey. Two smaller likeable team ups go head to head in a heist plot.

My first hope is that any more DC movies are made after the entire studio has been removed from Zack Snyder's rectum.

On topic of the SS movie, the movie did convince me that Affleck at least has the capability of a good Batman performance, as the few minutes of Affleck in SS was by far better than the entirety of his Batman in BvS.

[ben-zayb]

I think the biggest rumor is it will be a birds of prey film with harley as the villain/main character or something. So this may very well be a girl power super flick with the power coming from the good guys and bad guys. Im hoping this is both true and works well as we need more ladies in the super genre. As for suicide squad, I liked it ok, my main problem was, they introduced WAAAAAAY too many characters for one film so everything felt rushed. As for the joker, im not sure, I got the feeling that, if we had been able to focus more on him and develop his character, it wouldnt have sucked so bad. Would we have liked heath ledgers joker if he got like 5-10 minutes of screen time? I doubt it.

Yeah, like in Guardians of the Galaxy.

[random11]

Actually Margot Robbie is greenlighted to do a solo Harley Quinn movie. We probably won't here any details until after Affleck's solo Batman movie, but rumor has it the plan is to focus on more female characters, like Poison Ivy and Barbara Gordon (either as Batgirl or Oracle).

That makes me afraid.
I want to see a good movie with female leading characters, but... How should I phrase it lightly? There are exceptions of course, but Hollywood and TV don't have a good records when they decide to focus on women characters...

At least force writers to watch all seasons of Daria before they start writing.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well I am superhyped for WW. And i don't hype easily.

[lord_khaine]

Omg that comic page were simply hilarious :smallbiggrin:

Whats the source? feeling inclined to track down the rest of that story now :smalltongue:

[GloatingSwine]

Omg that comic page were simply hilarious :smallbiggrin:

Whats the source? feeling inclined to track down the rest of that story now :smalltongue:

That's the Injustice: Gods Among Us comic.

Harley Quinn regularly wins that comic.

https://img.pr0gramm.com/2015/02/14/21d7ee34d090f4e1.jpg

[random11]

The thing that threw me off from the start was the entire motivation of the squad.
"What if Superman goes bad".
Okay, let's say it's a valid point, but how is ANY of these people going to help?
Half of them don't even have any powers, which makes me wonder why not just train some elite force in the army, or hire mercenaries.
As for the people with powers, it's not like there is shortage in this world of people with powers who AREN'T criminals, and with the exception of the enchantress, their powers weren't much of a threat compared to powers like superman.

Was the suicide squad in the comic any better?


Anyway, all things considered I don't think it was a bad movie, despite it's many flaws I rather enjoyed it, but not enough to really recommend it to anyone to watch.
I think this is a kind of movie that really shows the flaw of the "yes or no" rating in rotten tomatoes.

[Avilan the Grey]

My feelings are that Waller wanted this task force done and the arrival of Superman was just bait she used to get it.

[random11]

My feelings are that Waller wanted this task force done and the arrival of Superman was just bait she used to get it.

That may be true, but it doesn't make the squad any more effective than mercenaries, special op team, or powers that aren't criminals.
It's not like it's her private army, she would still need an authorization to use the team, so it gives no advantage over the alternatives.

The only reason I can see that this team can be used, is in case the enemy is someone specifically related to one of the squad.
For example, I can see how the squad can be used to tackle one of the joker's plans.

[Keltest]

That may be true, but it doesn't make the squad any more effective than mercenaries, special op team, or powers that aren't criminals.
It's not like it's her private army, she would still need an authorization to use the team, so it gives no advantage over the alternatives.

The only reason I can see that this team can be used, is in case the enemy is someone specifically related to one of the squad.
For example, I can see how the squad can be used to tackle one of the joker's plans.

Well, a mercenary group, spec ops unit or Super team probably aren't going to consent to having a kill switch installed on them, which is sort of the whole point. The idea is that the government has total control over the Squad. If they don't have any sort of insurance like that, the Squad poses the same risk that the threads they were formed to combat do, at least they do if theyre capable of actually fighting people like Superman or Wonder Woman.

[Tyndmyr]

My feelings are that Waller wanted this task force done and the arrival of Superman was just bait she used to get it.

Yeah, but that requires all of the Generals fighting to grab hold of the Idiot ball. Like, even at the time of watching, I was sort of "whhhhy would these people be a credible threat to superman?" We literally have boomerang man, a guy who can climb, slowly, with a grapnel hook, a crazy person with a bat....I can't see them signing on for this.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, but that requires all of the Generals fighting to grab hold of the Idiot ball. Like, even at the time of watching, I was sort of "whhhhy would these people be a credible threat to superman?" We literally have boomerang man, a guy who can climb, slowly, with a grapnel hook, a crazy person with a bat....I can't see them signing on for this.

Scared people don't think logically. Whipping up the spectre of Superman 'going evil' as a boogeyman, push the emotional component, and then capitalizing on that temporary suspension of rationality to get what you want. It's an idiot ball, but it's a very believable one that people succumb to in real life every day.

[Sapphire Guard]

That may be true, but it doesn't make the squad any more effective than mercenaries, special op team, or powers that aren't criminals.
It's not like it's her private army, she would still need an authorization to use the team, so it gives no advantage over the alternatives.

The only reason I can see that this team can be used, is in case the enemy is someone specifically related to one of the squad.
For example, I can see how the squad can be used to tackle one of the joker's plans.]

You think it's a good idea to send Harley Quinn against the Joker? Good luck.

Deadshot plus krytonite is a credible threat to Superman if he gets the right shot. The squad has two benefits

1. Not immediately linked to the government, so whoever you send them against doesn't know who sent them automatically.
2. You don't have to care if they die, so if the plan doesn't work, you can just send someone else.

[Avilan the Grey]

You think it's a good idea to send Harley Quinn against the Joker? Good luck.

Deadshot plus krytonite is a credible threat to Superman if he gets the right shot. The squad has two benefits

1. Not immediately linked to the government, so whoever you send them against doesn't know who sent them automatically.
2. You don't have to care if they die, so if the plan doesn't work, you can just send someone else.

Also the team is not an insurance against Superman, really, since he is dead. They are an insurance against anything metahuman that might show up. And they did handle Enchantress, a being strong enough to kick Supe's ass.

[Frozen_Feet]

It's also worth noting the Enchantress was the original selling point of the entire team, and at least to layman would've appeared powerful enough to tackle Superman.

[Kyberwulf]

Except they didn't know about kryptonyte, so Deadshot would just be firing regular bullets at him.

I think the purpose of the Suicide Squad is the ability to have no ramifications to the government. They can send the team at anyone or any objective and have totally deniability. The squad doesn't have to follow any rules really. Sending in a squad of normal soldiers or mercenaries would mean they can be traced back to the government. Then they also have to follow rules of engagement.

Except for Diablo and enchantress, I don't see any of those guys being effective against anything close to a Superman level badguy. Could you imagine them trying to kill Doomsday?

[Traab]

Another thing to keep in mind, they can rank up over time. United, they could take down (insert random super here) thats more powerful than they each are, but not than they are combined. Now they go from c rank villains to c ranks with a b rank. Now they can start to work on gathering up other supers until they are all b ranks, then some a ranks, eventually getting some of the big time players.

In the meantime, this is who they had handy to provide a proof of concept. These were villains who are all serving life sentences, all are disposable, all are controllable with a fairly simple bomb implant. Aside from enchantress, she was able to control them or kill them at a moments notice. And even enchantress was SUPPOSED to be controlled with her heart being there and all. Have them run a few missions to show they get results, and waller gets more backing for her project and in the end we have Cadmus up and running full force, trying to clone or research ways to assassinate, every known super on the planet just in case.

[tomandtish]

Just watched it this weekend, and I saw the extended edition, so my viewing may be different than some of yours.


The thing that threw me off from the start was the entire motivation of the squad.
"What if Superman goes bad".
Okay, let's say it's a valid point, but how is ANY of these people going to help?



My feelings are that Waller wanted this task force done and the arrival of Superman was just bait she used to get it.


Yeah, but that requires all of the Generals fighting to grab hold of the Idiot ball. Like, even at the time of watching, I was sort of "whhhhy would these people be a credible threat to superman?" We literally have boomerang man, a guy who can climb, slowly, with a grapnel hook, a crazy person with a bat....I can't see them signing on for this.


Also the team is not an insurance against Superman, really, since he is dead. They are an insurance against anything metahuman that might show up. And they did handle Enchantress, a being strong enough to kick Supe's ass.

Avilan pretty much sums up the point here. It's not "Superman is a threat, these people can stop him". It's a combination of "Hey, it turns out we got lucky with Superman, but what do we do when/if the next one isn't so nice" and "Everyone else is starting to search for their own groups of metas, so we better have our own group in place as well". Those two factors actually work pretty well together.

And they do appear to have a heavy hitter in the Enchantress (or so they thought). Not knowing about the other one allowed her to break control, but until she did they would arguably have had one of the more powerful beings on the planet as a very reluctant team member (she would have fit right in, given the nature of the squad).

[GolemsVoice]

Except that part about the Enchantress was stupid as hell. "We have this super-powered being here!" "What if she goes out of control?" "She won't, we have her heart." *Enchantress goes out of control that very minute, heart does nothing* "Oh, well."

Like, Enchantress escaping wasn't interesting. She more or less just ignored everything and made herself a brother. She didn't even have to be clever about it or something.

[Avilan the Grey]

Except that part about the Enchantress was stupid as hell. "We have this super-powered being here!" "What if she goes out of control?" "She won't, we have her heart." *Enchantress goes out of control that very minute, heart does nothing* "Oh, well."

Like, Enchantress escaping wasn't interesting. She more or less just ignored everything and made herself a brother. She didn't even have to be clever about it or something.

Stabbing the heart was killing her. Rather quickly too. But Waller should have just had a planted expove on the heart instead (like their neck bombs).

[Tyndmyr]

Stabbing the heart was killing her. Rather quickly too. But Waller should have just had a planted expove on the heart instead (like their neck bombs).

She apparently DID have that. As seen in the scene wherein the Enchantress tries to get to Waller, and the case starts beeping.

So, she totally had the capability to blow the heart up, just...decided to use a pen instead.

[Traab]

She apparently DID have that. As seen in the scene wherein the Enchantress tries to get to Waller, and the case starts beeping.

So, she totally had the capability to blow the heart up, just...decided to use a pen instead.

Maybe it was more of a personal response? "I could blow your heart into a fine paste instantly, but I want you to suffer horribly for betraying me." STABSTABSTABSTAB! Its also possible that the case blowing up would have ended badly for waller too. Like it was too close to her for a safe explosion or something.

[Avilan the Grey]

So she's not only a homicidal b.... she is a STUPID homicidal b....? Unlike Harley? :smallbiggrin:

[lord_khaine]

Why mess around with explosives that can put yourself and everyone else close by at risk, that can go off prematurely and that would make damaging the heart take a lot more time since you need to get the suitcase out at a safe distance, when the heart is as vulnerable as a normal human heart, and can be stabbed with anything close at hand?

Its super easy to go "of course she should have blown it up" in hindsight, but noone knew that she had a brother, and that he could help her survive losing her heart.

[Avilan the Grey]

My... guess... is that she wanted to give her a chance to return to the cage, so to speak, by not killing her instantly. For all we know she might have done this more than once and it has worked before.

[Bicorn]

I think the only reason Harley quinn is a threat in the comics is because posion ivy used a lot of her chemicals to augmented her abilities, making her faster and stronger than a normal human.

The reason why they didn't include that in the movie is a mystery.

[Traab]

I think the only reason Harley quinn is a threat in the comics is because posion ivy used a lot of her chemicals to augmented her abilities, making her faster and stronger than a normal human.

The reason why they didn't include that in the movie is a mystery.

Because im pretty sure poison ivy doesnt exist yet in the dc movie universe so they would then have to explain who the hell plant chick is, and why she augmented harley. Thats like, an entire movie all by itself. Its one I honestly want to see, but it would require at least another movie of build up to show how huge of a bastard the joker is and how harley has a MASSIVE case of battered wife syndrome. Ok, screen writer time!

Movie 1 is a fairly standard batman versus the joker flick. Cast batfleck, cast whoever, i dont care. The point being, we get to see the full scale of the harley/joker dynamic. At the end we get a scene similar to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOP-2ulq2bk) and at the end we see a mystery woman get harley out of the alley.

Movie 2 is the intro for poison ivy. Have it go however you like, at the end her big plan is foiled and she manages to escape. She stumbles across harley lying in the alley and decides to help her. The End

Movie 3 gives us the harley/ivy team up where we see the changes get made so harley actually is more useful than as eye candy. Give it a real thelma and louise feel as the girls try to live their lives together and end it on the tragic note of harley running back to joker, unable to refuse him.

[Tyndmyr]

Maybe it was more of a personal response? "I could blow your heart into a fine paste instantly, but I want you to suffer horribly for betraying me." STABSTABSTABSTAB! Its also possible that the case blowing up would have ended badly for waller too. Like it was too close to her for a safe explosion or something.

I mean, maybe? But then, she apparently isn't at all worried at being in close proximity to the bombed villains. Or the case, which is apparently bombed as well. So, I have trouble ascribing any of her actions to explosion safety, since she gives absolutely zero craps about it as depicted on screen.

And...she didn't have an actual stabber with her? No knife or anything? Why a pen? Pen screams improvisation, and there seems to be no particular reason to plan on using a pen.


My... guess... is that she wanted to give her a chance to return to the cage, so to speak, by not killing her instantly. For all we know she might have done this more than once and it has worked before.

Maybe, but then we're back to stupid and evil. Aiming to just minorly hurt the evil god you have chained, who escaped, is an unwise plan. Stupid and evil is consistent, but adding "stupid" to most everyone's depictions in this world is kind of unsatisfying. We need pretty dumb generals who give the obviously overtly evil lady power with very little thought as to why and where this was going, we need a really, really poor selection of criminals...I mean, you have someone with a sword who literally eats souls. And you're going to pretty much ignore her to focus on the person with a hammer, and the guy who "climbs really well". By which I mean slowly, with a grappling hook. As superpowers go, that's somewhere way below "I have a gun".

****, accidentally fat fingering a button on a cell phone would have wrecked this plan. Given the way she was holding this many times, I honestly expected it to happen. Would have been a great tension breaker, too.

[Traab]

I still maintain the majority of the squad was meant as a proof of concept using who they had available. Most of them were at least pretty damn dangerous. Deadshot, diablo, croc, all are powerful potential killers who wouldnt be easy for conventional cops to take down if they should decide to resist. Boomerang was gutted as a character. He basically had a boomerang shtick like green arrow with all his trick shots. Instead he gets sharpened boomerangs at best.

[tomandtish]

I still maintain the majority of the squad was meant as a proof of concept using who they had available. Most of them were at least pretty damn dangerous. Deadshot, diablo, croc, all are powerful potential killers who wouldnt be easy for conventional cops to take down if they should decide to resist. Boomerang was gutted as a character. He basically had a boomerang shtick like green arrow with all his trick shots. Instead he gets sharpened boomerangs at best.

One of the people I was watching with asked why his code name was Boomerang, since he never seemed to throw the darned things....

Unevenness is one of the biggest words I can apply to this movie. Deadshot, Harley, Waller, Santana and Croc I think they did a good job with. But Katana, Enchantress and Flagg felt very two-dimensional to me, and Joker felt really flat. (I agree with the person who said earlier that you could have taken Joker out of the movie and it wouldn't have made a difference).

[BiblioRook]

Because im pretty sure poison ivy doesnt exist yet in the dc movie universe so they would then have to explain who the hell plant chick is, and why she augmented harley. Thats like, an entire movie all by itself. Its one I honestly want to see, but it would require at least another movie of build up to show how huge of a bastard the joker is and how harley has a MASSIVE case of battered wife syndrome.

I've been seeing a lot of reports saying that a Harley Quinn movie spin-off is happening and that it will very much be a Gotham Sirens move, not only including Poison Ivy (and Cat Woman) but having them in a relationship as well.
Honestly as much as I like the idea of it, this worries me more then a little. Like you are saying, there's absolutely zero build-up to it which to me suggests that they will have a very hard time doing it well, at the very least it would basically have to be two movies in one with one side setting up these 'new' characters and how they fit in the world and then whatever the movie actually will be about on the other.
I would argue this is a problem DC has really been running into with their movies and it's not hard to understand why, DC seems obsessed with trying to stand toe-to-toe with Marvel but also doesn't want to put in the near decade of background and build-up Marvel put in to build up the MCU and instead seems to think they can just start everything from scratch and still expect the same amount of success as Marvel at their peak.

[Traab]

I've been seeing a lot of reports saying that a Harley Quinn movie spin-off is happening and that it will very much be a Gotham Sirens move, not only including Poison Ivy (and Cat Woman) but having them in a relationship as well.
Honestly as much as I like the idea of it, this worries me more then a little. Like you are saying, there's absolutely zero build-up to it which to me suggests that they will have a very hard time doing it well, at the very least it would basically have to be two movies in one with one side setting up these 'new' characters and how they fit in the world and then whatever the movie actually will be about on the other.
I would argue this is a problem DC has really been running into with their movies and it's not hard to understand why, DC seems obsessed with trying to stand toe-to-toe with Marvel but also doesn't want to put in the near decade of background and build-up Marvel put in to build up the MCU and instead seems to think they can just start everything from scratch and still expect the same amount of success as Marvel at their peak.


You know what would have been an excellent idea if they were willing to put in the effort? They could have EASILY foreshadowed the hell out of Suicide Squad while setting up the justice league. As an example, a batman movie with joker and harley quinn. We get to see her character develop organically, and at the end of the flick, we get the after credits scene of waller pulling some strings, like a female fury, to get her transferred. We get a Flash movie where he fights captain boomerang, and again, after credits scene showing her pulling some strings, lobbying some government types or whatever. Keep doing that for the various films until you have your league formed AND the squad.

Now DC is free to promote TWO massive crossover movie series instead of just the one marvel is doing. The JL movie would probably come off as a deliberate copy attempt by dc while the squad movie not only would be a different angle entirely, it also gives us a place to send the bad guys in future films to replace losses during each film or lame bad guys the audience didnt like much. And the best part? It gives waller the excuse to keep building up her "team" meaning eventually, we get project cadmus ready to directly confront the league because now they have doomsday, galatea, and a few other heavy hitters that she "recruited" from justice league movies after they got beat. Now THAT would be an awesome grand spectacle.

[Olinser]

I think the only reason Harley quinn is a threat in the comics is because posion ivy used a lot of her chemicals to augmented her abilities, making her faster and stronger than a normal human.

The reason why they didn't include that in the movie is a mystery.

They DID kind of include it in the movie. They didn't lay it out with explicit dialogue, but Harley and Joker both took a dive into that chemical vat.

[Traab]

They DID kind of include it in the movie. They didn't lay it out with explicit dialogue, but Harley and Joker both took a dive into that chemical vat.

Wasnt that the chemical bath joker took originally? It didnt give him any superpowers, it turned him into a crazed albino.