Intelligent animals becoming druids [Pathfinder]

[atemu1234]

What would this be like? I'm imagining an intelligent wolf becoming a capable druid. Does it even work with RAW?

[DrMotives]

Why wouldn't it work? Assuming Pathfinder has the same guidelines as 3.x, than anything with an int of 3 or greater can take a class. In 3.5, a worg has a LA of only +1, although noted it's only intended for a cohort. Adding class levels is more than appropriate.

[Technetium43]

Well, if you make stats for it yeah. Otherwise, unless I'm misremembering, Pathfinder has either no rules, or godawful rules for monster characters. Unless something came in a later book.

[Stewzors]

I did something like this a while back for an npc, I remember there were some Druid Variant/Substitution levels worth looking at - Fangshields Druid.

Gives the druid ability to spontaneous heal, wild shape paws into dextrous hands and later wildshape into a humanoid form.

Can't give an exact link - not sure the one i have is a 100% legit link - but google is your friend.

[Gnaeus]

Well, if you make stats for it yeah. Otherwise, unless I'm misremembering, Pathfinder has either no rules, or godawful rules for monster characters. Unless something came in a later book.

There's rules. CR=ECL. May be as borked as LA if not more.

[Stealth Marmot]

I've seen published adventures in 3.5 that had an awakened bear with druid levels. I would guess that Pathfinder would allow the same.

Would your DM? I dunno.

[atemu1234]

I've seen published adventures in 3.5 that had an awakened bear with druid levels. I would guess that Pathfinder would allow the same.

Would your DM? I dunno.

I am the DM. I'm coming up with an adventure path.

[Stealth Marmot]

I am the DM. I'm coming up with an adventure path.

Oh. Well yeah a wolf druid could work. It would lack the ability to speak a language, but you could have it homebrew a first level spell that was a sort of reverse speak with animals sort of deal, where the wolf had a spell "Speak with Humanoids". Same spell as speak with animals, but in reverse. You would need this in order to have it speak with the party and thus menace them.

I would make it a DIRE wolf to give it some real menace though. Or, alternatively, it could be a Worg, which is intelligent enough on its own without being awakened.

In any case their spellcasting could be a mix of growls, barks, and especially howls when using their major attacks.

Wolves have a scent ability, so it could track the party throughout an area. Perhaps they could lead the party off to a desolate area and have them stranded, stalking them the whole way.

For their "Animal Companion", they could have their own mate.

[meschlum]

By the book, a Fey Animal Wolf would be CR 2, and possess magical abilities as well as high wisdom (14) and decent mental attributes (Intelligence 12, Charisma 10) - a very decent Druid baseline. Simply being awakened means no magical powers, lower Wisdom, worse Charisma, and random intelligence (probably lower) - but two extra hit dice. Pathfinder doesn't have advancement by hit dice linked to CR, but +2 to hit, +1 to all saves, and an extra 13 hit points is worse or similar to what you'd get from Fey Animal, so call it CR +1 and be done.

So an Awakened Wolf is CR 2, and you add Druid levels on top of that. If the wolf is going to be using its Druid powers for melee a lot (where being a Wolf is helpful), its CR is Druid level + 2 (from wolf). If it's going to use its Druid powers in ways that don't benefit from being a wolf (summoning, blasting, etc.), then the CR is Druid level + 1, minimum CR 2 (or possibly 3).

Druid 0: Awakened Wolf - CR 2
Druid 1: CR 3 if it takes advantage of being a wolf. 2-3 otherwise.
Druid 2: CR 4 if it takes advantage of being a wolf, 3 otherwise.
Druid 3: CR 5 if it takes advantage of being a wolf, 4 otherwise.
...

At high levels, you lose a caster level or two in exchange for being somewhat better at tripping and having slightly better saves and BAB. At low levels, you have less magic but you're better at fighting.

[atemu1234]

By the book, a Fey Animal Wolf would be CR 2, and possess magical abilities as well as high wisdom (14) and decent mental attributes (Intelligence 12, Charisma 10) - a very decent Druid baseline. Simply being awakened means no magical powers, lower Wisdom, worse Charisma, and random intelligence (probably lower) - but two extra hit dice. Pathfinder doesn't have advancement by hit dice linked to CR, but +2 to hit, +1 to all saves, and an extra 13 hit points is worse or similar to what you'd get from Fey Animal, so call it CR +1 and be done.

So an Awakened Wolf is CR 2, and you add Druid levels on top of that. If the wolf is going to be using its Druid powers for melee a lot (where being a Wolf is helpful), its CR is Druid level + 2 (from wolf). If it's going to use its Druid powers in ways that don't benefit from being a wolf (summoning, blasting, etc.), then the CR is Druid level + 1, minimum CR 2 (or possibly 3).

Druid 0: Awakened Wolf - CR 2
Druid 1: CR 3 if it takes advantage of being a wolf. 2-3 otherwise.
Druid 2: CR 4 if it takes advantage of being a wolf, 3 otherwise.
Druid 3: CR 5 if it takes advantage of being a wolf, 4 otherwise.
...

At high levels, you lose a caster level or two in exchange for being somewhat better at tripping and having slightly better saves and BAB. At low levels, you have less magic but you're better at fighting.

It isn't exactly what you'd call an awakened animal.

In a third party supplement about werewolves, the child of a werewolf and a normal wolf stands a chance of being either a werewolf or an intelligent wolf of sorts; it's essentially a wolf + average intelligence.

[meschlum]

Awakened gives you normal intelligence and a few extra hit dice. Number-wise, it's a debatable +1 to CR by comparison with other templates that give animals intelligence. So if you want to have an intelligent wolf with no further hit dice, it's a circumstantial +1 CR modifier at most.

At this point, it might be simpler to stat it out in the Race Builder instead:

Race - no Animal options exist (or Magical Beasts), but Fey is fairly close, as it gives Low Light Vision. 2 RP.
Size - Medium. 0 RP.
Speed - Normal. 0 RP.
Attributes - good physical scores across the board, low Charisma. Advanced gives +2 to physical, +4 to Wisdom and -2 to Charisma, which is close. 4 RP.
Language - Xenophobic. 0 RP.

Standard Traits: at this point, we're limited to largely human type capabilities, so there is very little that is wolf-like.
Bite - 2 RP, for damage as one size category smaller.

So it's a 8 RP race (respectable) in Standard format, mostly because you can't pick up the nice Wolf traits at this stage. Technically, you still have hands and the ability to wield weapons, so the RP value is even lower...

Advanced Traits: wolves have good physical abilities. Let's get them.
Bite - 2 RP Using Slapping Tail as a template, do the full 1d6 + 1 1/2 Strength damage as it's your only attack.
Trip - 3 RP Using Tripping Tail as a template, again.
Scent - 4 RP
Fast - 3 RP Taken twice, grants a 50' speed, per wolf.

Now it's a 18 RP race, with a lot of wolf traits. You can probably work in more attribute boosts (to Dex and Con, in order to fit the Wolf ability scores) by pointing out that you have no hands, which is rather inconvenient.


As an Advanced Race, it effectively costs one level if the party is level 1-5, and none past that point.

So it's +1 to CR for being wolf-like when at a low CR, and CR = Druid levels once it's a Druid 6 or more, which makes a lot of sense.