Starting a new game need an idea

[Hunterx]

We are going to be starting a new game and I need an idea for an optimization that looks like it is not an optimization. My char tend to drive the DM mad because they are either so good he can't do anything with them except have the God smite him, but our DM is a bit of an AH when it comes to books because he is to lazy to look things up not sure what books we will have but for sure all core books and most likely the complete series of books maybe miniature handbook and a few others but not 100% sure.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Stryyke]

Leadership feat?

[Hunterx]

I will admit I have never played around with the the leadership feat at all. Others have in our party and the DM tends to allow it with little to no issues.

Think I will look into this a little more.

[Mordaedil]

Are you sure this is a table that will be any fun to play at? Doesn't seem like any kind of my kind of table for sure.

[Stryyke]

Yea. Optimizing the leadership feat can get really broken, really fast. And he won't see it coming, since others have used it. The question is do you want to be a "leader of men" or someone who needs a lot of protection, but can draw others. Take a weak form with support skills and spells, and your GM won't guess because of how weak your character is. Maximize your charisma. If you go sorcerer, that will allow you to use your CHA for your spell levels and spells. Just a few thoughts.

[Hunterx]

I was thinking bard, half elf with a twist into the marshal kinda like the diplomancer but with leadership. Then maybe into Warchief where I get the bodyguards where I made a Ref roll to move behind one of my followers which I will make barbarians. That rage when they are struck. Then I apply the Warchief frenzy ability to that rage. The bard spells will allow me to cast healing spells as a bard, but a cleric could be good this way to.

I think there was a feat that allowed you to use your Cha over your wis for cleric spells was there not I just can not remember.

The next question is this would the marshals aura ability effect the DC of spells? Or is it just skill.

[Hunterx]

Ok I think I got the maybe what I want but let's see here first

Nature Bard 5
Druid 5
Ranger 5
Beast master 4
X

This will by level 6 net 3 animal companions taking natural bond twice for them makes them basically the same level for a Druid animal companion 10 do the same thing for the range animal companion and the beast master animal companion unless I'm missing something here.

[Stealth Marmot]

What sort of role do you want your character to perform? Why do you need them to be optimized?

[Hunterx]

Because anything that is not is boring and weak

[Inevitability]

Because anything that is not is boring and weak

It's like you started to answer one of Marmot's questions, then switched to the other halfway through.

That said, have you considered talking to the DM? Explain that you are having trouble enjoying the game because of the DM's current restrictions on material and optimization. Try to establish a level of optimization both of you are happy with, and then build something at that level. Alternatively, ask your DM why they limit optimization: do they want to keep the game fun for other players, are they having trouble building balanced encounters otherwise, or is there another reason?

[Hunterx]

He is lazy and will not look up the other books or feats and expects us to not want better. The other players try to op but they are not as exp as me with it. So I try stuff that is oped but without looking it so I still have fun and the DM has no clue.

[Inevitability]

He is lazy and will not look up the other books or feats and expects us to not want better. The other players try to op but they are not as exp as me with it. So I try stuff that is oped but without looking it so I still have fun and the DM has no clue.

You want a build that is OP but doesn't look OP? How exactly do you imagine that to work?

[John Longarrow]

Whispergnome Beguiler.

Tell the DM your going to handle traps and stuff, but you don't want to be in combat the way sneak damaging rogues are.

Level 6 grab your one level dip in Mindbender (and mindsight if Lords of Madness is on the table) to delay your advanced learning so you can grab Ray of Stupidity.

Then start into the shadowcraft stuff. Illusions = Evocations gets really fun really quickly.

[Hunterx]

Ultimately I want the char to be fun for me and to drive the DM bananas. But when he looks at it I want him to go this is not that bad, then in game I crush everything. Do I care about the enjoyment of the other player not really this is all about me having a blast and sending him head long off a cliff.

[John Longarrow]

Ultimately I want the char to be fun for me and to drive the DM bananas. But when he looks at it I want him to go this is not that bad, then in game I crush everything. Do I care about the enjoyment of the other player not really this is all about me having a blast and sending him head long off a cliff.

Truth be told I think you'd be better of just not playing in this group. If you succeed in annoying everyone (including the DM) that sets a bad precedent. Can have out of game consequences if everyone starts thinking of YOU as a person they don't want to associate with.

[Inevitability]

Ultimately I want the char to be fun for me and to drive the DM bananas. But when he looks at it I want him to go this is not that bad, then in game I crush everything. Do I care about the enjoyment of the other player not really this is all about me having a blast and sending him head long off a cliff.

This motivation is selfish, hypocritical, and makes me wonder if your DM is right in banning so much with you around.

Good luck with your build: I won't help you create it. 'Talk things over with your DM' remains my advise.

[Stryyke]

I gotta side with Dire_Stirge on this one. You don't care if anyone else has fun?! Wow. I feel bad for even giving you the ideas I've already given you. I'll remember your name, so I know not to respond to your posts anymore.

[JNAProductions]

We are going to be starting a new game and I need an idea for an optimization that looks like it is not an optimization. My char tend to drive the DM mad because they are either so good he can't do anything with them except have the God smite him, but our DM is a bit of an AH when it comes to books because he is to lazy to look things up not sure what books we will have but for sure all core books and most likely the complete series of books maybe miniature handbook and a few others but not 100% sure.

Anyone have any ideas?

Don't be a dingus?

I'm going to echo the others-talk to the DM, OOC, about how you feel he can improve. If he listens, great! Have a fun game, where you're open with your goals to him (including optimization goals). If not, that sucks, but it might not be the group for you.

[Hunterx]

The reason I do not care is that he,has done this for years and refuses to change he is a very close minded DM and thinks he is always right and when we as the group prove him wrong he is still like nope. He needs to be taught a lesson and aside from taking him out into the woods and beating him senseless this is the only way we can do it. Yes I care only about my fun because if I try to name everyone have fun then I'm trying to play for everyone, I can not help it if they do not want to take the time or put in the hard work to make their char great instead of just settling for the basics. The DM closes everything off so tight throws huge challenges at us has to fluff the game way to much gives out way to high powered items trying to make up for it. Here is an example. We started a game level 3 is what we started at when we finished the game out of 6 of us 1 person had a char that was playable in a level 4 setting, however they had 2 keeps, a body guard and some stupidly high hard hitting weapon. My char retired from the group at level 18 and the rest had their souls stuck in limbo. This happened because he gave us a pouch with the deck of many things in it. He will not listen and thinks doing stuff like this is going to make a difference but all it will do is stuff like what happened, so teaching him that he need not do this because we can if we want over power his game without any help from him, and if he continues to read rules wrong then we the players will crush him with little effort.

[JNAProductions]

Then don't play with him. If he runs a bad game, don't play it.

No gaming is better than bad gaming.

Alternatively, have you considered DMing yourself? Show him how to do it better?

[Hunterx]

I did and he still is doing the same stuff

[JNAProductions]

I did and he still is doing the same stuff

Then don't play with him. If he's a good friend, then word it like this:

"Hey man, I don't have much fun when playing in your games. So when we hang out, could we do some other stuff instead of just D&D?"

And if you don't like him outside D&D... Just stop interacting with him.

[Telonius]

I'd second what most of the people here have said; this probably is not going to end well.

However! If you really want to be an OP character that doesn't look OP, I'd suggest optimizing to buff your party. Cleric works well here if you're going for adding numbers to rolls; Wizard works well if you're going for controlling the battlefield. (Of course either class can be built to do both, depending on what hoops you're willing to jump through). Bard can work, too, but the tricks you need to really pump up Inspire Courage leaves a lot more opportunities for the DM to realize what you're doing. You can usually pull this sort of thing off without looking like any kind of cheesy character - at least not any more cheesy than any other spellcaster might be. You don't even really need to take a PrC.

Anyway, the task here is to make the rest of your party that much better. If the Fighter is going up against an enemy that he wouldn't hit without help, he's doing zero damage. But then you buff him with several spells, he hits, and the enemy is splattered onto the wall. If the DM doesn't have that much system mastery, it looks like the Fighter just wrecked shop. But you know better: it was your spell that enabled the Fighter to overcome the obstacle.

This method of play also has side benefits: it gives your other players exactly what they want, and improves their experience. Fighter Guy wants to split skulls, your spells help him do that. The other players might not even notice you're doing this stuff (even as they add all the bonuses you've given them). Since your character doesn't look like some cheesy internet monstrosity, the DM might not notice either. The rest of the party stops thinking you're being a flashy special snowflake, the DM stops wanting to kill you, and everybody has a bit better of a time.

[Hunterx]

So do you think the auramancer build would hide this well enough ?

Marshal x
Holy liberator x

Have dragon touched and draconian auras, second draconian aura feats

This would give you 5 auras

Take expand aura to effect players 60 feet away