The Punchy Butler

[Mordaedil]

Alright, so here's the background. I'm playing a human wizard lady who comes from a noble family and I am planning on taking leadership feat at 6th level so that I can train a small following of tiny wizards and such to strengthen the influence of my family and whatnot.

And between the DM and myself we started tossing about ideas for a cohort and our party is full of really beefy dudes already (a krynnish minotaur barbarian/rogue, a warforged crusader, an elf/lesser tiefling swashbuckler/duskblade and a gnome rogue) so I was thinking something else would have been clever, but we kinda set our sights on the idea of a butler from my family coming to oversee me on orders from my family.

So a few things that we've determined ahead of time and that will restrict this guy. We need him to be low maintenance as we don't have patience for setting up manuevers or spell-lists (ergo as few caster levels as possible and no sword-sage sadly, this guy is a cohort, not a main character) so keep that in mind a little. I got approval to advance his age category twice in trade for two feats. Able learner and Jack of all Trades seem like obvious picks as we need him to be as butlery as possible. This also means he needs to have some skill in profession (butler), but he doesn't need max ranks. He was probably a warrior type (knight or paladin) before becoming a butler.

He always packs a lot of silverware and tries to be as prim and proper as possible (possibly using Heward's Handy reworked into pants) and he's going to be using random things like silverware as improvised weapons (DM allowed both improvised weapon proficiencies as a single feat, which I wish to take advantage of, for flavor if nothing else) and he'd jump into fights tearing off his uniform and going ballistic with his fists if his master is in danger.

Now, I realize this is kinda not what is usually done here, but I need some ideas on making this come to life. A brainstorming, if you will. I realize that the monk is bad, but it does sort of fill in the niche I want as a basis for this. But suggestions for replacements for monk are still welcome, especially if they make the flavor more western.

We haven't rolled ability scores yet, but I think we wouldn't settle for a below average-score character in any stat for a character like this.

[Grod_The_Giant]

How about an unarmed Barbarian build? Something like (ex) Monk 1-2/Barbarian (the rest)? You said he "goes ballistic," so why not have him go really ballistic?

[Darrin]

You said tiny... do you mean really tiny? As in, Muckdweller or Jermlaine tiny?

And it sounds like you're taking Leadership at 6th, so at best this cohort is only going to be ECL 4?

Hmm. I'm having some trouble with this, as I'm not sure how to accomplish three things at once with only 4 levels to work with:

1) Improvised Weapons, which usually involves Hulking Hurler or Drunken Master. I'm guessing drunken butler isn't what you're looking for, and it's not going to happen in 4 levels anyway. Hulking Hurler involves being large, and there's no easy way to do that and still have room for class levels. It's also not tiny.

2) Punching things. I like starting with Battledancer 1/Fighter 2, picking up Superior Unarmed Strike at level 3 and probably Snap Kick at level 6. There's also a Barbarian ACF in Dragon Magazine #349 called "City Brawler" that may be closer to what you're looking for: gives up medium/heavy armor and martial weapons for Improved Unarmed Strike, TWF (unarmed strikes only), and reduce improvised penalty to -2. I have no idea if your DM will allow Dragon Magazine material, though. You can add a level of Paladin on that and you should be good to go.

3) Being a good butler. I'm not sure what you want to do here other than put max ranks in "Profession: Butler". I'd like to see a little spellcasting, hopefully with something like prestidigitation, but mostly support or buffing type spells. Factotum came to mind for the skills and SLAs, but maybe an aura-based class such as Marshall or Dragon Shaman.

Best I can come up with...

Race: Earth Kobold
1) City Brawler Barbarian 1. Feat: Strength Devotion. Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike. (Add Pounce and/or Whirling Frenzy ACFs if you like)
2) Paladin of Freedom 1.
3) Fighter 1. Feat: Superior Unarmed Strike. Bonus: Power Attack.
4) Fighter 2. Bonus: Improved Bull Rush.

So... somewhat good at punching, but not particularly butler-ish.

[Stealth Marmot]

Monks make the best unarmed fighters, and the lawful alignment requirement fits as well. As far as I know, no other class makes use of unarmed damage.

Monks need not actually use Asian style martial arts, they could be boxers or use Krav Maga. That is entirely fluff.

My suggestion is that he is part of a sect of fighters and warriors whose job is being the physical guardians of families of arcane users. Since it is not uncommon for arcane gifted families to fight with one another, they need warriors whose training makes them best capable of dealing with and subduing arcanists.

Think about a monk for a bit. They get evasion, all good saves, an excellent touch AC, and are gifted in grappling. Is there any better class suited for subduing a wizard or sorcerer? Heck, they eventually get spell resistance. Some of the more evil arcanists could use their guardians as target practice to see if their spells work. Also they get immunity to disease pretty quick, so they would be able to get their hands dirty (literally) without fear.

I would also give him ranks in Heal, as his job will also be to treat wounds that arcanists can often get in battle, or just when experimenting. He could also have ranks in knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft so he could provide Aid Another for those skills, as his job will be to assist in research as well. "What was the name of that reagent...red, underground..." "Blood moss sir." "YES! Thank you butler." He could have ranks in Profession (chef) as well, cooking for the party. For his gear, I would have him invest in bags of holding ASAP so he could carry stuff without being burdened. A Hewards Handy Haversack would be best so e could produce what was needed with a free action.

They could throw forks and silverware instead of shurikens and have all sorts of other flavorful little bits.

[Mordaedil]

Barbarian and butler are tough fits, I feel, otherwise I like the idea of him hulking out in a rage.

Darrin, I figured tiny in a scale sense, as in a small coven. But yes, given that he'd be ECL 4 it's rough to work with, I know. I also forgot to mention that he's probably going to need to be a standard race as my DM reserves special races for PC's only.

1) I got a bit of an explicit clue out in terms of improvised weapons, my DM allowed me the benefit of both Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything from Pathfinder as a single feat for the purposes of making this character. So I don't have to worry about taking a specific class for that entire benefit! (I guess I wasn't clear enough in my OP, I apologize, I wrote it in between bits of stuff I had to do at work)

2) He did allow one Dragon magazine feat, but he's fairly strict on certain sources. For instance, he wants me to bring up any spell I want from the Spell Compendium for him to approve/disapprove, which I don't mind, we talk a lot about stuff to make up for some people who don't say anything and expect him to make their characters for him.

3) Right? I thought of that too, albeit I want to avoid spellcasting because we use Roll20 and I am the one programming my own characters maneuvers or spells, which is really tedious and I have enough with my wizard, thank you. It comes down to a matter of skills and feats I think.

Stealth Marmot, this is exactly what I was looking for in more ways than one. My original problem was that monks didn't get Heal as a class skill, but taking able learner should mitigate that, dropping points all in a few arcane checks and likewise seems like a good idea too. I was also tossing around the idea that maybe Move Silently (but not hide?) would be a very butlery thing. So he sneaks up on you unheard, but he doesn't really try to remain unseen.

Otherwise, it seems like you are in the right mindset with in terms of gear. So it comes down to feats, I think.

[John Longarrow]

Barbarian 1 (F) Improved Unarmed Strike
Ranger 1
Ranger 2 (F) Superior Unarmed Strike, Two Weapon Fighting Style
Aristocrat 1

If he's human this gives you a bonus feat at first, possibly extra rage?

He started out as a basic barbarian who became more woodsy and punchy before learning all the wonders that civilized society can bestow. Over the last decade he's become rather fond of his civilized trappings (few more obsessed than the recently converted) but he retains his old ways.

At 3rd level he'd have been able to get two attacks a round with punches for OK damage and a better to hit than a Monk of comparable level. With rage (and him being able to wear armor) he'd be pounding on same level monks with the same stats. Aristocrat is for the "I'm the butler now". He'd also be relatively young (say 30ish) but he'd be dying his hair grey to give a more distinguished look.

In the woods or out of doors he's the guy you ask to do the tracking. Think Alfred from the Batman comics. He's a butler NOW but he used to be a total badass.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Barbarian 1 (F) Improved Unarmed Strike
Ranger 1
Ranger 2 (F) Superior Unarmed Strike, Two Weapon Fighting Style
Aristocrat 1

If he's human this gives you a bonus feat at first, possibly extra rage?

He started out as a basic barbarian who became more woodsy and punchy before learning all the wonders that civilized society can bestow. Over the last decade he's become rather fond of his civilized trappings (few more obsessed than the recently converted) but he retains his old ways.

At 3rd level he'd have been able to get two attacks a round with punches for OK damage and a better to hit than a Monk of comparable level. With rage (and him being able to wear armor) he'd be pounding on same level monks with the same stats. Aristocrat is for the "I'm the butler now". He'd also be relatively young (say 30ish) but he'd be dying his hair grey to give a more distinguished look.

In the woods or out of doors he's the guy you ask to do the tracking. Think Alfred from the Batman comics. He's a butler NOW but he used to be a total badass.
You can also use Urban Ranger/Cityscape type sub levels for that.

[Deadline]

Have him be a Bard with Improved Unarmed Strike (and later, Superior Unarmed Strike). He was a knight? Then his "Bardic Music" uses "Perform(Oratory)" for those inspiring speeches to the men under his command. On the plus side, you can take the Bardic Knack ACF to help reflect that "he's got lots of skills" angle.

He'll totally be the Alfred to your Batman.

[Eisfalken]

So a few things that we've determined ahead of time and that will restrict this guy. We need him to be low maintenance as we don't have patience for setting up manuevers or spell-lists (ergo as few caster levels as possible and no sword-sage sadly, this guy is a cohort, not a main character) so keep that in mind a little. I got approval to advance his age category twice in trade for two feats. Able learner and Jack of all Trades seem like obvious picks as we need him to be as butlery as possible. This also means he needs to have some skill in profession (butler), but he doesn't need max ranks. He was probably a warrior type (knight or paladin) before becoming a butler.

Naw, I got the perfect class for your cohort: factotum, from Dungeonscape. Huge skill monkey, uses smarts to overcome lack of huge physical stats, can toss you a little healing and/or a few SLAs per day? That's PERFECT as a butler. He's not going to necessarily outshine the party, but you can use him for all those tasks you don't want to bother with: setting up camp, doing legwork for an adventure (gathering intel, buying/selling stuff, etc.). He can pick up a few spell-likes for utility (prestidigitation, unseen servant, etc.), but only gets literally a very few each day, so there's no paperwork (especially since you're probably picking the same ones each day).


He always packs a lot of silverware and tries to be as prim and proper as possible (possibly using Heward's Handy reworked into pants) and he's going to be using random things like silverware as improvised weapons (DM allowed both improvised weapon proficiencies as a single feat, which I wish to take advantage of, for flavor if nothing else) and he'd jump into fights tearing off his uniform and going ballistic with his fists if his master is in danger.

Improvised weapons are... bad. There's almost no useful way to use them, and I guarantee you that forks won't do nearly enough damage to actually help (by definition they'd be doing less than 1d4, the damage a dagger does).

My suggestion is to have him use "household" weaponry and attacks. Perhaps he has a light crossbow or shortbow for hunting. EVERYONE in older times had some kind of knife or dagger for a tool and eating utensil, and it wouldn't be uncommon for him to have a hatchet (throwing axe) and "farming" sickle handy as well. Have him use flaming oil flasks like a kind of Molotov cocktail. Just read through various books with weapons and find the kind of thing that would

I got you covered on the magic item there, though: City of Splendors: Waterdeep, pg. 150, has an item called Laeral's robes. Basically, it combines a Heward's handy haversack with a couple of other items. Ask your DM if you can make a similar item by combining a robe of your choice (I suggest a shadow veil, just so your butler can stay hidden and safe) with the haversack (and/or the cloak of resistance). The rules of adding item abilities to other items are in MIC, pg. 233, so there is some official support for doing all this.


Now, I realize this is kinda not what is usually done here, but I need some ideas on making this come to life. A brainstorming, if you will. I realize that the monk is bad, but it does sort of fill in the niche I want as a basis for this. But suggestions for replacements for monk are still welcome, especially if they make the flavor more western.

Easy enough to get rid of monk here. If you aren't interested in this butler being a combat mook, but you still want him to engage in successful fisticuffs, grab Superior Unarmed Strike from TOB. Basically, his unarmed strike will scale up with character level. That's all it does; his fists still don't count as a manufactured weapon, and he doesn't get flurry or anything special. He just hits harder.

Set up your feats for skill monkey support. If you do it right, this guy can track down leads, investigate things, do all your economic stuff, etc., leaving the whole party free to focus on their own adventuring stuff.

Factotums get all skills as class, so the sky's the limit. There are a few necessities for a "Jeeves" build:

Appraise - This is one of those "I wish I had it, but I don't want to really waste points on it" skills. Perfect for a cohort or follower.

Bluff - Helps him negotiate better, as well as keeping unwanted visitors from intruding.

Craft - Too many uses to explain. Focus should be on armorsmithing, weaponsmithing, and (if you can get around the spellcasting requirement) alchemy.

Diplomacy - This. ALL of this. This is for making nice with locals, haggling over goods, etc.

Gather Information - Self explanatory.

Handle Animal - This is the skill for driving a wagon or carriage, which is the way to travel in style, obviously. Also good for him to use to have some guard animals, like dogs and such.

Heal - Just in case magic healing is hard to come by for some reason. Never underestimate the situational use of this skill.

Knowledge (local) - Good for the synergy bonus to Gather Information, but not totally necessary.

Knowledge (nature) - Good for the synergy bonus to Survival, but not totally necessary.

Knowledge (nobility and royalty) - Handy for the synergy bonus to Diplomacy. Could be handy if you need some intel, too.

Listen - Never underestimate a good skill to keep from being surprised in combat. Can also help him eavesdrop socially.

Sense Motive - Both good synergy for Diplomacy, and a great way to sniff out an ambush or betrayal.

Sleight of Hand - Good for smuggling stuff past guards as well as pickpocketing.

Spot - See Listen.

Survival - VERY useful skill. With enough ranks, your butler can keep himself, you, and the entire party alive in the wilderness. Reduces movement speed, but if you have no food hundreds of miles from home, you need to start evaluating if speed is more important than not starving to death.

Use Magic Device - Duh. You want him to be able to use healing wands, scrolls, etc. In addition to healing stuff, get him eternal wands with utility spells he can activate when you guys need a little "help" with something. Caster-in-a-can skill, always put it on any cohorts or followers with spare points to spend.


We haven't rolled ability scores yet, but I think we wouldn't settle for a below average-score character in any stat for a character like this.

Don't cohorts get elite array by RAW? If not, and you get to roll, Int is primary, but nothing should have any penalties if you can help it (if you do have to suffer an ability score penalty, put it in Wis, Cha, and Str, in that order; he needs Con and Dex "just in case").

Side note: Useful utility spells from sorcerer/wizard (for items or SLAs, whichever you decide) include alarm; appraising touch (SC); arcane lock; comprehend languages; dark way (SC, great temporary bridge); endure elements; gentle repose (cute side note, you can use this to preserve meat); glowing orb (SC, totally awesome light source, basically equivalent to having yourself an electrical lantern); greater alarm (SC); identify; illusory script; knock (no need for skill checks); mending; message; mount; Nystul's magic aura (mostly to hide stuff); prestidigitation (helps with pretty much any and all chores); regal procession (SC, great for making temporary mounts for wagons or just to give everyone a horse for a quick trip); rope trick; secret page; servant horde (SC, great for hosting parties or sorting and packing your dungeon loot); shrink item (great for hiding big mundane items like ladders in a travel-size form); sign of sealing (SC, nice little ward); Tenser's floating disk; tongues; unseen servant; whispering wind. There's a number of other great spells at higher levels, and other class spells you'll probably want (i.e. bard spells you can put in eternal wands), but it's not hard to figure out which ones to get.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Mmm, Factotum... I'd steered away because of the spells, but you could very easily do a Factotum... maybe human Factotum 3/Fighter 1, with Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Trip. That makes you decently punchy and decently control-y (Factotums are suprisingly good at tripping, since you get +Int for free).

Edit: Or, if you're doing the whole "stab you with silverware" thing, Iaijutsu Focus is totally on the table...

[Eisfalken]

Mmm, Factotum... I'd steered away because of the spells, but you could very easily do a Factotum... maybe human Factotum 3/Fighter 1, with Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting and Improved Trip. That makes you decently punchy and decently control-y (Factotums are suprisingly good at tripping, since you get +Int for free).

OP supposedly said he didn't want another combat mook. Hence why I'm confused that that was the first thing everyone suggested.

[John Longarrow]

OP supposedly said he didn't want another combat mook. Hence why I'm confused that that was the first thing everyone suggested.

OPs request that "he'd jump into fights tearing off his uniform and going ballistic with his fists if his master is in danger" is why we are all trying to make unarmed combat at least part of the build.

[Soranar]

You mentioned bonus feats so I would go with

Psychic Warrior 4

feats: hidden talent (dimension hop , replaces pounce pretty well in your case)
monastic training+ tashalatora (you are now a monk in all the ways that matter)

so a level 4 psychic warrior can go into a rage (just manifest expansion)
teleport
punch like a champ

(you might want to invest into circle kick and superior unarmed strike)

nothing that breaks the campaign, few powers and not much power points so it's not hard to keep track of

[Clopin Silk]

I've got nothing in terms of optimization, but in terms of roleplay, there are two major options.

One: Butler from the Artemis Fowl series. Big, tough, and well trained. An extensive background in military and martial arts combined with a naturally cautious demeanor. A man who was taught to never allow himself to develop an emotional attachment to his charge, and knows that he's failed in that regard, who knows that they view their charge almost as if they were his own child.

Two: Sebastian from Black Butler. A suave, neat, perfectly proper butler... who just so happens to be a demon (or other evil, supernatural being), whose charge promised him their soul in a desperate deal made when no other option presented itself. There's a specific task that this butler promised to help his charge complete, and he gets their soul upon its completion. Until then, he'll do anything to protect them, and will act as the perfect butler, because that's Part Of The Deal, and they can't afford to renege on it.

[Mordaedil]

Roleplay-wise we're also looking at Sebas from Overlord and Walter from Hellsing.

But man, these suggestions are really good at getting us to take a fresh angle on the whole thing, especially things like Psychic Warrior which I hadn't even glanced at.

But I have to say, Eisfalken, Factotum looks pretty good for a choice. I think we can at least work from this.

We did the dice rolling just so we could get a better idea of what we had to work with and we came up with 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8. This is a pretty good array for a normal character. Age penalties suck though and is making us really consider if a monk is even possible with what we had in mind. It might work with the Factotum however.

As for improvised weapons, yes, we weren't planning to make it his focus or anything, but more like a viable option for picking up any nearby object and fighting off mooks while he sets up the table. For style points, if you will. (we run a very silly table)

[Stealth Marmot]

We did the dice rolling just so we could get a better idea of what we had to work with and we came up with 16, 15, 14, 12, 10, 8. This is a pretty good array for a normal character. Age penalties suck though and is making us really consider if a monk is even possible with what we had in mind. It might work with the Factotum however.


Age penalties suck, but you shouldn't forget that you get bonuses as well.

Str 16 Dex 15 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8

Age penalties/Bonuses turn that into:

Str 13 Dex 12 Con 11 Int 12 Wis 14 Cha 10

Since he is level 4 you can put a point into Str and make it 14. Not great, but workable for a monk.

I don't know Factotum, so I can't say what stats are needed.