Dragons, reincarnate, and spellcasting

[Keral]

Hi,


Let's say we have a creature of the dragon type who has reincarnate casted on her. Let's assume she becomes a young adult dragon.
She would become and aquire abilities and whatnot according like a dragon of that age: frightful presence, SR, immunities etc.

Among these, is spellcasting. And here lies the problem. A young adult dragon knows and casts spells as a sorcerer of X level.

The thing we're disagreeing on at the table is this: would she, by RAW, get to choose her spells? Or since there isn't a learning process but it just happens magically would she acquire a specified number of spells (i.e. decided by the master?).

And if so, would she be able to make use of the retraining feature even tho retraining says only things chosen by the character can be retrained?


Also, as a bonus, tecnically items adjust magically to the wearer. With the exception of weapons and armor, would other magic items resize them to fit her new form? And if so, would they continue to do so should she make use of the change shape ability to appear humanoid from time to time?

[XionUnborn01]

On the point of choosing spells, I'd let the player pick. It's no fun to be forced to use a list of spells you didn't pick unless it's a very temporary thing. If you want to keep it a little random, maybe have the PC make a list of 2x the number of spells they know for each level and then you randomly pick from that list. Really though, let the player pick.

[PrismCat21]

That's a good question :)

I'd say the innate magical power is part of the physical form of a Dragon, and rule that she'd get the spellcasting power relevant to the type of Dragon she became. I'd also nudge it toward being somewhat theme's to that Dragon type.

Here's another good question that I thought the thread was going to be about. ;)
What happens if a True Dragon with innate spellcasting, and no class levels, gets reincarnated into a humanoid? Will they still have spellcasting abilities? Will they become a 1HD creature due to no class levels? They'd have fantastic stats. :P

[Keral]

That was one of the option. The thing is, young adult true dragons are caster level 1, 3, or 5.

Worst (or best) case scenario: we're talking about three level 1 spells and two level 2 spell. What is she gonna do?

If it were an higher CL I'd say let the player choose so long as it somewhat fit that kind of dragon. But with those spells how can you do it? In my opinion you'll just end up with something so futile it isn't even worth bothering with...



What happens if a True Dragon with innate spellcasting, and no class levels, gets reincarnated into a humanoid? Will they still have spellcasting abilities? Will they become a 1HD creature due to no class levels? They'd have fantastic stats. :P


Good question. Could they not keep the HD? Minus the one lost with reincarnate. Say, a young adult white dragon has 15HD, I'd make it a 14HD human (or other humanoid).

Unless the dragon is older tho, such a creature woundl't really have that good stats. Ignoring the fact that white is the worst I could choose, they'd only keep the mental stats...


As to the spellcasting I have no clue.

[Necroticplague]

Among these, is spellcasting. And here lies the problem. A young adult dragon knows and casts spells as a sorcerer of X level.

The thing we're disagreeing on at the table is this: would she, by RAW, get to choose her spells? Or since there isn't a learning process but it just happens magically would she acquire a specified number of spells (i.e. decided by the master?).
Dragons learn their spells identically to the way Sorcerors do. Do sorcerors get to pick their spells? If so, then dragons also do. If not, then dragons don't.


Also, as a bonus, tecnically items adjust magically to the wearer. With the exception of weapons and armor, would other magic items resize them to fit her new form? And if so, would they continue to do so should she make use of the change shape ability to appear humanoid from time to time?
Well, Change Shape is pretty clear the last portion is a 'yes', and rules for magic items are clear the first part is a 'yes'.

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped. If it can be carried or worn, nothing happens, thus it continues to work.


When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. Thus, it's safe to assume that most her gear still works for her.

[Keral]

Dragons learn their spells identically to the way Sorcerors do. Do sorcerors get to pick their spells? If so, then dragons also do. If not, then dragons don't.



That was my idea, I felt it was so obvious it didn't really warrant an argument. The DM, however, mentioned the fact that there is no learning process for such a creature and that sorcerers pick their spells little by little as they level up. That it's not the creature who knows the spells but it's the new body that does and so the spell are somewhat pre-installed, etc.