CoS Help: Old Bonegrinder

[PaxZRake]

Hey Guys,

My level 3 party (Paladin, Cleric, Rogue, Bard) found the deed to Bonegrinder in Death House and are intent on taking it.

But they stand no chance against the Hags there. They have Ismark, Ireena, and even a Revenant in the party, but blow for blow that's just not enough.

Anyone have a creative solution here?

I'm currently planning on trying to force them to run, maybe focus fire on the Revenant so they get the hint and run when/if he goes down.

Help?

[NecroDancer]

My level 3 party defeated the Hags but we were super lucky. Maybe you should make the encounter 2 green hags and 1 night hag and have the night hag only show up 3-5 rounds later

[AttilatheYeon]

If ur party has the Revnant, this will be an easy encounter. To be honest most of them will be.

[PaxZRake]

If ur party has the Revnant, this will be an easy encounter. To be honest most of them will be.

Really? Am I over estimating what I can do with 3, effectively CR 7, monsters?

I figured I would just Polymorph him into a mouse or something. He doesn't seem like the type of creature the hags would be interested in.

[BDRook]

Some fights the party's just not meant to win. I think the encounters over their heads for a reason. To stand even a chance I'd recommend splitting the hags up somehow. They are sales women after all, trying to pedal their pastries. Say they have an interested buyer in town looking to purchase some. I doubt they'd send all 3 to handle them.

[ad_hoc]

Sometimes a TPK is just going to happen.

CoS is a sandbox. The characters can go and do whatever they want whenever they want. That doesn't mean they should be able to kill everything they encounter.

If they charge in looking for a fight without knowing what is there then there will likely be a TPK. Maybe next time they won't.

Also, is the revenant with the party the random encounter one? They will lead the party to Argynvostholt, but that doesn't mean they will fight the party's battles. They avoid settlements, I would also have them avoid the windmill and other such things.

[ruy343]

When I DM'd this part I had Ismark (the lesser) stay behind in the village of Barovia to keep a semblance of order, now that the burgomaster was dead. He never joined their party (except for one brief fight).

However, Ismark told the PCs all very seriously before they left as he showed them his map of the countryside: "Whatever you do, do not go anywhere near that windmill. It is a dark place." And that was that. The PCs decided to listen to Ismark, because they had a relationship of trust with him, and that roleplaying saved their lives.

However, if your players are dead set on trying, perhaps have the hags kill the NPCs (Ismark and their revenant friend) to display their power, and show the PCs just how hopeless it is. Ireena could start pulling them out of combat when she sees that it's hopeless, which could lead to some great roleplaying opportunities (Both with Ireena pulling them out, and dealing with her angry reaction because they wouldn't listen to her/Ismark and now her brother, the only person who ever cared about her, is dead!). Perhaps later they could come back and finish the job, and find a way to save their friends' bodies (though the hags should totally have a re-animated Ismark waiting for them with open arms).

[Temperjoke]

Well, not all the hags have to be home at once, you can also change the type of hags the encounter features. If you're really worried about it, if the players make a plan, cooperate with their plan a bit, let some of the "randomness" fall in their favor.

EDIT: You could also have a friendly NPC of your own creation who's been keeping the windmill under surveillance leap in to help if things seem to be going bad. A wereraven who sees someone attempting to stop the hags might be compelled to try and interfere with a hag trying to cast a spell.

[Jamgretter]

I tried my hardest to warn the part that the encounter was too deadly for the at the moment (level 3), while they seemed to ignore the advice, they did seperate the hags, so they couldn't use their coven spells. In that fight, yes someone will likely die, but it won't be a TPK.

[Specter]

Have one of the hags be away from the mill when they arrive. Make her arrive after they kill the other two.

[nilshai]

6 Vampire Spawn vs a level 2 party...and the party will neither get a real warning, nor will they be able to run.
There seem to be a whole bunch of impossible encounters in the official campaigns. Also there are many stupidly easy encounters paying homage to the "6-8 encounters a day"-crap.

[MrCeeJ]

6 Vampire Spawn vs a level 2 party...and the party will neither get a real warning, nor will they be able to run.
There seem to be a whole bunch of impossible encounters in the official campaigns. Also there are many stupidly easy encounters paying homage to the "6-8 encounters a day"-crap.

I agree. I just ran most of Death House over the weekend and my level 2 group of 4 (dex fighter, wiz, monk, cleric) dispatched the stuff in the house easily, but as soon as they got to the basement, they've been having to use all of their spell slots and ki points.

Even in the single enemy fights, it's a challenge since the enemies hit hard, like the Grikk. They've been smart enough to avoid provoking the Shadows coming out, but I felt like I needed to go a little easier on them with the Ghasts since the damage + paralyze would have done them in. I've been letting them take long rests since they barricade themselves in the crypt areas, but I feel like that's letting them off too easy.

I know for a fact that they are going to get hit by the 4 ghouls that appear from the floor, just because they are the type to wander the whole area before moving on. How do you guys handle tough encounters like that?

I feel guilty pulling punches, but I also want them to survive...barely. The monk did get knocked down in the Ghast fight, so that was fun.

I think that's kind of what it comes down to, though. If you have fun with the group just barely surviving, then help them survive. Keep it challenging for them, but I think it all comes down to what's best for the story and the group.

[Jamgretter]

6 Vampire Spawn vs a level 2 party...and the party will neither get a real warning, nor will they be able to run.

Where are you getting this encounter from? There are no Spawn in the Death House. The 6 Spawn are in Vallaki, bu then your party should be at least level 4, if these are the spawn in Vallaki they should get ample warning, as the coffinmaker spills the beans if interrogated. Is this from another campaign book?

[Temperjoke]

For those complaining about difficult encounters in CoS, I'd like to point out that CoS is supposed to a highly dangerous and threatening campaign, with TPKs at every turn. That's part of the horror setting for it.

[PaxZRake]

So, assuming this happens I think I have a plan.

Assuming the Hags win, and they should, I'll have them kidnap the party. That seems in character. Then I'll have Strahd show up and barter for the release of Ireena, perhaps killing the Revenent in the process.

I won't have Strahd take Ireena to Castle Ravenloft, but to a plot-convenient location TBD.

That way the party can lose. Feel loss. Face consequences, but will drive the quest forward.

Thoughts?

[Sir cryosin]

It was those hags that made me hate the magic missile spell. They can cast that at will. it's not a lot of damage but it's auto damage. You can take down a PC in a round or two the go on to the next one.

[ruy343]

So, assuming this happens I think I have a plan.

Assuming the Hags win, and they should, I'll have them kidnap the party. That seems in character. Then I'll have Strahd show up and barter for the release of Ireena, perhaps killing the Revenent in the process.

I won't have Strahd take Ireena to Castle Ravenloft, but to a plot-convenient location TBD.

That way the party can lose. Feel loss. Face consequences, but will drive the quest forward.

Thoughts?

That sounds fair, but I dunno if I would have Strahd actually step in to save the party. While the party was in barovia, they were constatnly being watched by the Keepers of the Feather (in were-raven form). Perhaps have one of the keepers of the feather (maybe the innkeeper?) negotiate for their release? I bet that he could get access to something that the hags want... perhaps he has a mirror that makes the viewer appear more beautiful, which he'll trade to the hags for the hostages?

Alternately, an appearance by the Mad Mage of Mount Baratok could be appropriate (but have him run away in the direction of the mountain, perhaps leading the players to investigate further).

Regardless, I personally think that Strahd should keep his distance from the hags (he's not actually their friends if I remember right), and should definitely remain firmly in the antagonist role against the players. Unless, of course, Strahd uses this opportunity to make the players feel obligated to join him for dinner in his castle (where they could save Ireena and run away - players may need to come and go from the castle multiple times in the adventure, says the introduction).

[nilshai]

That sounds fair, but I dunno if I would have Strahd actually step in to save the party. While the party was in barovia, they were constatnly being watched by the Keepers of the Feather (in were-raven form). Perhaps have one of the keepers of the feather (maybe the innkeeper?) negotiate for their release?

Or the ravens could intervene, usher the party away and cover it's retreat.


Where are you getting this encounter from? There are no Spawn in the Death House. The 6 Spawn are in Vallaki, bu then your party should be at least level 4, if these are the spawn in Vallaki they should get ample warning, as the coffinmaker spills the beans if interrogated. Is this from another campaign book?

You are correct, the party was level 4. The encounter is still unbeatable, because of regeneration and resistance to nonmagical weapons.
That's why i said the party doesn't get any real warning. The coffinmaker tells them about the nest, but that does in no way imply, that it would be suicidal to attack them. The coffinmaker doesn't give the party the statblocks.

If you see a gargantuan form of a dragon at the horizon, if you are told that there are ancient, powerful creatures, which killed many adventuerers before, if you are told there is an orc army of hundreds, yeah, that's a warning.
If some NPC tells a party that "there are vampires in my house", the party goes to try kill them, because that is exactly why they are there. It's actually a hook to get them to do it!