Hard to kill PCs

[dejarnjc]

Hi all,

So my current campaign is about to wrap up and its been quite a fantastic adventure with a good story and lots of roleplay, humorous mishaps, and interesting combats. After this campaign is done, we'll be starting a new campaign with a new DM (a current player in our group whom has previously DMed for us). We've already been warned that this campaign will be incredibly gritty (keeping close track of food, water, ammunition etc.) and that it is quite likely our characters will die, possibly multiple times. Exhaustion effects will also be applied liberally and we're expected to find a good deal of magical items to somewhat help counter-balance the harsh environment we've found ourselves in. We'll have a pool of 24 characters from which to choose from (including our original characters) and if we as a group run through all of them then very bad things will happen to the world.

Premise is is that all the characters were sent from four separate continents as envoys to broker trade deals and to establish diplomatic relations between the main kingdom on each continent. These continents recently discovered each other due to the events of our previous / about to finish campaign.

So on one hand I really like the premise and I think I'll enjoy the switch up in terms of game play but on the other hand I do get pretty attached to my characters and I really don't want to lose one.



With all the above being said, what are some PC builds that are pretty damn hard to kill? Campaign starts with our characters at level 3.

And please keep in mind that stuff like environmental effects (falling to death, pools of acid, quicksand) and traps are just as likely to kill us as are monsters. Acceptable source material includes any UA material that has levels 1-20 published.

FYI My character in the just finishing campaign is a wood-elf moon druid (and yes he is very hard to kill) so I'll be avoiding playing the same class twice in a row.



As of right now, I'm intending my first character to be a human mystic assuming the 1-20 information is available before our campaign starts.

[RickAllison]

Long Death Monk, appropriately. Between the temporary HP that can be recharged by snapping a chicken's neck since it does not require a hostile target (and let's be honest, a death-obsessed monk relishing murdering small animals isn't really that strange), the high mobility of a monk, and later both the ability to decline going to 0 HP by spending 1 ki point and getting all saving throws as proficient render them extremely hard to kill.

[Demonslayer666]

I've always found Paladins hard to kill because they usually have a high AC, high HP, bonus to saves, healing, and utility spells.

This campaign sounds like a ranger would do well if there are lots of environmental hazards to overcome.

[ruy343]

Oh ho, my friend; I can help you with this one. I'm all about making tough-to-kill characters! I'm going to give you some low-level ideas, since I don't think you're starting at level 20.

Barbarian X: Pump your Strength and Con to as high as you can (16 if you use standard array). Why Con over Dex? Because every hit point counts to a barbarian! You'll be even tougher to kill if you use a shield instead of a two-handed weapon, and you'll still be very useful in combat (shoving people prone is always a good idea). By level 4, you might consider the shield master feat, or just keep pumping your constitution (or strength really). Your danger sense ability will also protect you from traps and such. Bearbarian is an obvious choice, but other totems might make sense too.

Rogue/Fighter: This works best with a Vuman unless you start at level 4. Many people will say that the medium armor master feat is trash, but at low levels, it can really pay off to have an AC of 19 with no disadvantage on stealth checks. We had a player who took this route (Fighter 1, Rogue 3, and fighter for the rest), and that character messed people up. We ended our campaign at level 6 or so, so he just barely hit his fighter archetype, but it didn't matter - he didn't even need extra attack. He just used a rapier and a shield with +4 medium armor and his +3 dex bonus (and he chose the dueling fighting style). If you ever make it far enough to get an ASI, just pump your Constitution; you're dealing enough damage already so you don't need a further Dex boost. (to the naysayers, yes, this is not optimal if he's going to go to level 20; but this guy likely won't last a week based on the DM's plan: a high AC character like this will be just fine).

Monk: The monk is the ultimate survivor. Negate fall damage, deflect arrows for free, faster movement, and eventually gain immunity to poison, proficiency in all saving throws, etc. Monks are the ultimate DM show-stopper. Seriously.

Cleric: We had a tempest cleric in our CoS group who had a high AC, and high constitution who survived pretty much everything. Being able to cast Protection from Good and Evil is a lifesaver, and in a gritty, resource-driven campaign, having the ability to cast Purify Food and Drink, as well as Create Food and Drink later on is a great idea.

Wizard: They have the weakest hit points and such, but if you play a wizard with access to a lot of ritual spells (always having comprehend languages or detect magic up can be a lifesaver) and utility spells, you'll be able to survive anything. Personally, I'd choose a conjurer for this one: that way, no matter what happens, you can conjure any spell components that you might not have had on hand (since your DM is being meticulous about your possessions/spell components). Also Fog Cloud (great for creative getaways). Also Rope Trick (Take a much-needed short rest ANYWHERE).

(Note: If you're worried that your DM might argue that you don't know how to create object X, you should take the Keen Mind feat: you remember things you have seen and heard perfectly for a month. if you're separated from your spellbook, just conjure a new one before preparing your spells for the day! Need to conjure a key that you've seen before to escape a jail cell? Boom. But don't try arguing with the DM that you should be able to create food at will: it's probably not gonna fly.)

Other things to consider:
If the DM liked traps in previous adventures, Dungeon Delver is a solid choice for you.
If the DM liked

[Jamesps]

I tend to really like hard to kill characters over large damage characters. I also prefer characters that don't rely on temp buffs and spells. With those self-imposed restrictions the hardest character I've come up with to kill and played with is a stout halfing barbarian1/rogueX.

You've got poison resistance, you can reroll 1s on your saves, you've got resistance to fear, your AC starts good and gets progressively better as you level up until lvl 13 where you'll have 22 AC with nothing more than a shield. While you can't use the damage bonus of your 2 rages a day, you still get the resistance to physical damage on top of eventually picking up uncanny dodge. Evasion will negate a lot of large chunk damage, and your rogue abilities will enable to you to strategically withdraw from a losing combat. Finally, if you play your cards right you'll end up with proficiency in every single saving throw at high lvl.

Add that to taking defensive skills with expertise (stealth and deception to get you out of jams) and you'll be able to outsurvive just about anyone barring certain types of spell casters.

Edited to note: I meant all of the three big saves (wisdom, dex, and con). You'll be missing two of the rarer saves.

[gfishfunk]

I recommend going the opposite direction: Ben the Breakable, a very squishy, quick to die PC to test the waters with. Use Ben to get a feel for how the campaign will actually run.

Then, build something survivable accordingly.

[dejarnjc]

Thanks for all of the responses so far.

I like the monk ideas, especially when combined with the mobile feat.

I've considered bearbarian and paladin but am worried about playing a character that consistently needs to be front line. Also, I'm mentally prepared to do a lot of running away and that doesn't jive with my mental image of either of those classes.

Rogue multi-classes definitely appeal and seem strong for this kinda game. Particularly a rogue/barb (reflavor rage to focus or something) or a rogue/fighter.

Also, while I think that making an expendable character first would be the smart move, I don't really want to game the game so to speak and am intending on trying to make it through the whole campaign with my first character (probably mystic). I do want at least 2 back up characters though in case the due are particularly bad for me on any given day. At this point I'm definitely considering a monk for one of em.

[Naanomi]

Overall hard to kill characters:

-Long death monk, without any special tricks is just brutally tough to put down
-ancients paladin, all paladins are pretty tough but the magic resistance pushes this one ahead for me
-battle-master; sentinel, polearm mastery, controlling maneuvers... be tough by lockdown potential
-life Cleric, especially coupled with heavy armor master, kee
-abjurer wizard, probably not *quite* as inherently tough as some of these but can counterspell the common ways of shutting down meatwalls, and can throw their toughness on other characters
-barbarian, totem or battlerager, be a Hill Dwarf, max con, rock tough feat... have every HP

[Stealthscout]

I'll take a different direction. While most of the ideas so far have the standard strengths - hp, ac, etc. The real danger is resources and gritty realism. Each is prone to death by drowning or disease or lack of food and water.

Try a dragon sorc 1/ancients paladin x with the magic adept feat for goodberry. This guy has the a.c. and go with healing and disease resist built in. The flame smiting would synergies with spec and with a high Dex you can have a.c. 20 with a shield and swimsuit.

For environmental situations just use your 6 cantrips. A body suit of water can function as a has at suit of sorts and with presdigitation can handle extreme temps. Again,all without special equipment or items.

[The Shadowdove]

I agree with long death monk for survivability and escape tactics. Shadow monk is surprisingly resourceful and stacked with survival mevanocsms.
I tend to main monks, and all of the archetypes are super sturdy. Mobile is an always for melee monks imo. I've survived by the skin of my teeth too many times(our dm isn't against team kills in any way).

I also believe taking a race capable of flying seriously increases options for surviving and hit/run tactics. Variant tiefling for example.

Oath of ancients paladin is also a great option. For flavor/fun/versatility while still being able to self heal/dish out DPs. Maybe your dm will allow a flying mount later on too. Aasimar has some good options for racial(again, flying is an option!).

Barbarian is an obvious one for obvious reasons.

Cleric is also a good option. You don't have to limit yourself to being a healbot if you don't want to. They have just as much roleplay potential as other classes. Heck, be a storm cleric and intimidate people with the force of your deity's presence! I like the idea of a charismatic cleric actually. With the ability to choose between talking or powering his/her way out of sticky situations.

[Davemeddlehed]

I think Life Cleric is your best bet. No need to worry about rations due to Goodberry and Create/Destroy water. Access to heavy armor, added 1d4 to all checks for the party(at least the ones you know you'll be making), and cure wounds make you, and the whole party, really, difficult to kill off.

[8wGremlin]

Variant Tiefling (wings) - Arcana Cleric is very potent.
taking the spells, Booming blade, and Chill Touch (long range)
You have all the clerical goodness as well.

if you can get Magic Initiate: Druid, pick up Shillelagh and Goodberry.
and key everything of Wisdom.

[Willie the Duck]

We really need to know more about this campaign.


Is it count every arrow because the DM wants you to manage your resources, or because you are going to go for weeks without seeing civilization? If the latter, skip being an archer, and think about warlock.
Will pools of quicksand mean you don't want to wear heavy armor (I know there are no rules in the book for this, is he implementing them)? If so, anything that relies on heavy armor is out (and consequently dex builds are in).
Does he like resolving things with skills? If so, consider a half-elven urchin (2 useful tools on top of the skills) rogue1/cleric (knowledge)1/lore bard or some such thing. Acrobatics, athletics, and perception are a must.
Is it going to be a lot of saving throws. Sounds like starting with one of Con and Dex would be a good idea, and picking up the other with resilient (and/or be a paladin or monk).

[MinotaurWarrior]

Forge Cleric 1: 21AC, 26 virtual until I have to use shield.

Forge 1/ Fighter 1 : Defense fighting style, 22 / 27 AC

Forge 1 / Fighter 1 / Necromancer 2: Kill stuff you bought at the petstore for HP.

Forge 5 / Fighter 1 / Necromancer 2: Spiritual Weapon and spirit guardians for the grim harvest. This is when CR appropriate monsters start being able to hit you again.

Forge 5 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 2: Resistance to Physical damage.

Forge 6 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 2 : AC 28, keeps you up with CR appropriate attack bonuses.

Forge 6 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 2 / Wild Magic 1: Advantage on saving throws.

Forge 6 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 2 / Wild Magic 2: Turn slots lower than your highest (spirit guardians, spiritual weapon) into more 1st level slots for shield.

Forge 6 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 2 / Wild Magic 3: Extend spell.

Forge 6 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 6 / Wild Magic 3: use spare spellslots to animate dead at the start of long rests.

Forge 6 / Samurai 3 / Necromancer 6 / Wild Magic 3 / Circle of Twilight 2: 9d8+1d10 spirit guardians, a wee bit of healing, and wild shape because why not.

[JellyPooga]

And please keep in mind that stuff like environmental effects (falling to death, pools of acid, quicksand) and traps are just as likely to kill us as are monsters.

This alone makes me think an Undying Warlock might be an idea. While it's ordinarily considered somewhat lacklustre, the 10th level ability Undying Nature removes your need to eat, sleep and breathe; against environmental hazards, this could prove invaluable.

Among the Dead (1st level) also gives you Advantage on Saves vs. Disease, which given your description of the campaign may well be something worth a damn, especially if combined with Stout Halfling or Dwarf for Advantage on Saves vs. Poison as well.

Death Ward on a short rest basis is also a solid "insurance policy" against death-by-HP-loss. Long duration, no concentration; you can spread it out among the rest of the party with little downside.

Dipping Life Cleric, for Cure Wounds, Disciple of Life and Heavy Armour Proficiency is not a bad idea, either.

Optionally, 2 levels of Necromancer Wizard for Grim Harvest also goes quite nicely with Undying Warlock, both thematically and for a character that just. keeps. getting. back up.

[dejarnjc]

We really need to know more about this campaign.


Is it count every arrow because the DM wants you to manage your resources, or because you are going to go for weeks without seeing civilization? If the latter, skip being an archer, and think about warlock.
Will pools of quicksand mean you don't want to wear heavy armor (I know there are no rules in the book for this, is he implementing them)? If so, anything that relies on heavy armor is out (and consequently dex builds are in).
Does he like resolving things with skills? If so, consider a half-elven urchin (2 useful tools on top of the skills) rogue1/cleric (knowledge)1/lore bard or some such thing. Acrobatics, athletics, and perception are a must.
Is it going to be a lot of saving throws. Sounds like starting with one of Con and Dex would be a good idea, and picking up the other with resilient (and/or be a paladin or monk).


*Likely to be little to no civilization but I would guess that we could fletch our own arrows with a skill check.

*The quicksand example was just me trying to anticipate. No idea what kind of enviromental hazards he'll use. In the past he has frequently put us into places where we might fall.

*In my experience with him skill checks are used quite frequently so rogue multiclasses definitely seem useful.

*Saving throws will be common I'm sure. This does make the oath of ancients paladin possibly with a storm sorc or radiant sould multi clasd more appealing.

I'm also considering a polearm master, sentinel battlemaster or a shield master eldritch knight.

On a side note, my party so far is likely to have an AT-bladelock multi-class, a sorcerer, my mystic, a half orc bard/druid, and one unknown (I'm hoping he'll go something like the new beastmaster ranger but more than likely he'll go some sort of caster).

[Specter]

All I can tell you is, get someone with Goodberry and/or Create Water. That should take care of the food stuff.

[Naanomi]

The high/low stat dichotomy that is always hard for me is very low intelligence coupled with very high Charisma, the 4 INT 20 CHA sorcerers of the world. How can they be so pursuasive?

[RickAllison]

The high/low stat dichotomy that is always hard for me is very low intelligence coupled with very high Charisma, the 4 INT 20 CHA sorcerers of the world. How can they be so pursuasive?

Wrong thread?

[Naanomi]

Wrong thread?

Yes oops sorry!

[Willie the Duck]

[answering my questions]
I'm also considering a polearm master, sentinel battlemaster or a shield master eldritch knight.

On a side note, my party so far is likely to have an AT-bladelock multi-class, a sorcerer, my mystic, a half orc bard/druid, and one unknown (I'm hoping he'll go something like the new beastmaster ranger but more than likely he'll go some sort of caster).

Oh, and one final question, are you using the optional encumbrance rules?
If yes, don't dump Str, but do go Dex build. If not, bring everything. Crowbar, portable ram, hammer, pitons, hatchet, knives, poles. silk rope )plenty of silk rope. You will lose rope and have to leave it behind. Make sure you can successfully argue that your Nature or Survival skill means that you can rapidly make new rope as well. A flying race/familiar who can fly a rope up for the rest of the party (and retrieve it afterwards) is also useful.

A shield-using EK is a great way to conserve your own hp (a bearbarian does too, but in a different way). A polearm master/sentinel is a really great way to conserve hp for the whole party. If it is combat you are worried about, those are the best defensive ideas (whether a better defense is a better offense is another question, though).

What do you know about the other characters? admixture of AT/lock? bard/druid? Feats and/or styles?

If, as you say, the DM is going to hand out magic items to help, there is advantage in being able to switch between weapons without forgoing any specialization. For that reason, choosing defense fighting style, Str over Dex (you can wield a magic rapier with Str, but can't wield a magic halberd with Dex), and no weapon specific feats (shield master, polearm master) might be one strategy.

[dejarnjc]

Oh, and one final question, are you using the optional encumbrance rules?
If yes, don't dump Str, but do go Dex build. If not, bring everything. Crowbar, portable ram, hammer, pitons, hatchet, knives, poles. silk rope )plenty of silk rope. You will lose rope and have to leave it behind. Make sure you can successfully argue that your Nature or Survival skill means that you can rapidly make new rope as well. A flying race/familiar who can fly a rope up for the rest of the party (and retrieve it afterwards) is also useful.

A shield-using EK is a great way to conserve your own hp (a bearbarian does too, but in a different way). A polearm master/sentinel is a really great way to conserve hp for the whole party. If it is combat you are worried about, those are the best defensive ideas (whether a better defense is a better offense is another question, though).

What do you know about the other characters? admixture of AT/lock? bard/druid? Feats and/or styles?

If, as you say, the DM is going to hand out magic items to help, there is advantage in being able to switch between weapons without forgoing any specialization. For that reason, choosing defense fighting style, Str over Dex (you can wield a magic rapier with Str, but can't wield a magic halberd with Dex), and no weapon specific feats (shield master, polearm master) might be one strategy.



Ahhh so I don't want to get into encumbrance because at the moment the DM is proposing some sort of slot rule that I haven't had time to digest fully but after eyeballing I'm not too thrilled. I'm going to very gently/politely suggest the variant encumbrance rule instead as I think that one makes more sense..


A flying race would make a lot of sense. He hasn't mentioned that they're restricted but I'll check with him first to make sure they're allowed. Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't allowed as there is some in-game logic to support this so I wouldn't whine about it too loudly haha.

We MAY be constrained about starting equipment but I agree with you that if not I will be grabbing EVERYTHING that I can (without being weighed down) that I might deem useful.


In terms of magical weapons, I expect him to tailor them to the party. I.E. if no one uses or can use a great maul in combat, I doubt he'd give us one and instead re-make it as a weapon one of us uses regularly.

[The Shadowdove]

*Saving throws will be common I'm sure. This does make the oath of ancients paladin possibly with a storm sorc or radiant sould multi clasd more appealing.

I'm also considering a polearm master, sentinel battlemaster or a shield master eldritch knight.



I never mentioned EK in my suggestion but that's a great defensive way to go too. It's more of an ac tank than paladin, with shield and all. Basically a self augmenting part arcane sword swinger. Some of the abilities limit your attacks, but you can choose not to use them depending on the situation.

However, paladin definitely wins out in damage.Also, the self healing /versatility of paladin makes it a strong contender. Tons of staying power, video game like ability to keep oneself and allies in a pinch from going down. Summonable mounts is worth consideration too. Sentinel works here too.

Sentinel is also great by itself. There's no rule saying you need polearms to use it. It can compliment most melee builds by itself.

If you do go battle master and are concerned about a save heavy setting, consider a dex based build with mobility. You can control the battlefield better and, worst case scenario, use shield+whip and throwing weapons to kite enemies who cannot AOO you. Disarm maneuver has potential here, and whip is flavor.

[Willie the Duck]

Ahhh so I don't want to get into encumbrance because at the moment the DM is proposing some sort of slot rule that I haven't had time to digest fully but after eyeballing I'm not too thrilled. I'm going to very gently/politely suggest the variant encumbrance rule instead as I think that one makes more sense..

Sounds good, but let's be clear--if you use the encumbrance system, the 1st enc. cutoff is 5xstr. At that level, everyone (except maybe a high Str character who still wears little to no armor) is going to be moving slowly, especially if you are running around without resupply. Horses (or weightless rations, through goodberry and create water) help that, but it is very hard to be well equipped, fast, and able to work without resupply points if you use the encumbrance system.

[ruy343]

OK, if the DM is also going to restrict equipment that you can carry, then I will refer to a previous post of mine and wholeheartedly suggest a Conjuration wizard. Need a battering ram? There it is! Need a really long rope? Any length of rope that would fit into a 3-foot cube will work.

I'm serious, man. It'll save your life in that sort of situation!

[8wGremlin]

Take background: Outlander

Their feature states [QUOTE='Feature: Wanderer']
You have an excellent memory for maps and geography, and you can always recall the general layout of terrain, settlements, and other features around you. In addition, you can find food and fresh water for yourself and up to five other people each day, provided that the land offers berries,small game,water,and so forth./QUOTE]

Also look at the following: Fighter: Scout from (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf)
coupled with the 3rd level feature from the new revised Ranger (http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf)

This allows you to play a ranged character that can easily provide food, water for 10 people!
- natural explorer, and has the excellent fighter chassis.

[wilhelmdubdub]

Eldritch knight fighter with defense in plate with a shield. For spells you would want to take shield, absorb elements, feather fall, protection from evil and good if applicable. You could dump int if you wanted to and take resilency in dex and wisdom.

If you wanted a good dex build think about being a bladesinger multiclass and ask if you can get the access to the mariner fighting style . You can get better spells including waterbreathing, remove curse, counterspell, dispel magic, fly.

[Foxhound438]

bear barbarian is obviously pretty hard to take down, and has enough HP to survive a lot of odd effects anyway; maybe pick a race with environmental adaptation (either explicitly or by fire/cold resistance)

Any cleric with heavy armor and solid con mod will do great

Eldritch Knight with shield, absorb elements, and blade ward can be pretty tough to kill and gets a good selection of tricks later on

long death monk's THP can be good if you have a bag of crickets or something to fuel them before any combat starts after any given rest, in combination with deflect missiles, slow fall, evasion, purity of body, and so on.... with the cherry on top being their kiting potential

any paladin, provided you get a decent charisma score

fiend warlock in a similar way to death monk, except you have to use your spell slots to get all the assorted other survivabilty things monk gets for free