Homebrew class for whatever Volo is?

[HidesHisEyes]

Does anyone know of a homebrew class for a sort of adventurer-scholar who wanders around in search of obscure knowledge, relics and stories? I've been toying with the idea of designing one myself. It would be mainly about skills, especially knowledge skills but also stealth and athletics for delving into ruins. Then there would be a selection of magical abilities like the warlock's invocations to represent scraps of arcane lore collected over time, as opposed to an actual spell progression.

Of course a character along these lines could be made with what's in the PHB. College of lore bard and arcane trickster would both work as far as mechanics go, but neither really captures the concept. I feel like there's a place for such a concept in a game like D&D, especially in Forgotten Realms where one of the most iconic characters, Volo, is essentially this.

[JackPhoenix]

Volo is, canonicaly, wizard.

For 5e, lore bard fits better, IMO... it's what the subclass is supposed to be. Perhaps with custom background.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Volo is, canonicaly, wizard.

For 5e, lore bard fits better, IMO... it's what the subclass is supposed to be. Perhaps with custom background.

Agreed. Volo is a the model of a 5e lore bard, and should be retconned as such.

[Occasional Sage]

Volo is, canonicaly, wizard.

For 5e, lore bard fits better, IMO... it's what the subclass is supposed to be. Perhaps with custom background.


Agreed. Volo is a the model of a 5e lore bard, and should be retconned as such.

This is a good bandwagon to jump on.

Seriously, there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

[JellyPooga]

This is a good bandwagon to jump on.

Seriously, there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

I'll buy a ticket for that carriage too.

It's an important point that few Bards are Elan; they're far more Indiana Jones than Minstrel-in-a-Dungeon.

[Willie the Duck]

This is a good bandwagon to jump on.

Seriously, there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Not just reinvent the wheel. Adding a something else to fill the category of 'people like Volo' undermines exactly what the lore bard is supposed to be. If you don't like the lore bard as presented, change it (I can totally see wanting more outdoor survival spells), but that's the role it is there for.

[HidesHisEyes]

Fair enough. I guess my problem with the lore bard for this purpose is the reliance on charisma over intelligence, and the signature bardic inspiration. To some extent the whole thing smacks of a class that isn't sure what it's supposed to be anymore. If it's more Indiana Jones than minstrel-in-a-dungeon then why have bardic inspiration? I don't remember Indy singing as he fought the Nazis (I know it doesn't have to just mean singing, but it still doesn't gel with the adventure professor concept in my mind).

I certainly am nitpicking, however. I guess if I ever play such a character I'll just make a bard, reskin bardic inspiration as "applied lore" and see if the GM lets me use Int as my casting ability.

[Princess]

Fair enough. I guess my problem with the lore bard for this purpose is the reliance on charisma over intelligence, and the signature bardic inspiration. To some extent the whole thing smacks of a class that isn't sure what it's supposed to be anymore. If it's more Indiana Jones than minstrel-in-a-dungeon then why have bardic inspiration? I don't remember Indy singing as he fought the Nazis (I know it doesn't have to just mean singing, but it still doesn't gel with the adventure professor concept in my mind).

I certainly am nitpicking, however. I guess if I ever play such a character I'll just make a bard, reskin bardic inspiration as "applied lore" and see if the GM lets me use Int as my casting ability.

You don't have to put your stats in the combat-optimized order if you want to be good at some skills... also, Volo definitely has a dump stat somewhere in the mental arena. His restaurant suggestions are solid, though, and I can see lore bards being excellent yelpers.

[Naanomi]

Volo is a bit of a wanderer, I could justify a 1 level dip of revised ranger... but beyond that Lore Bard is fine, he's more talk than smarts by any measure

[Malifice]

Not just reinvent the wheel. Adding a something else to fill the category of 'people like Volo' undermines exactly what the lore bard is supposed to be. If you don't like the lore bard as presented, change it (I can totally see wanting more outdoor survival spells), but that's the role it is there for.

Volo dipped Ranger.

[Temperjoke]

Did he dip ranger, or just take ranger spells for his Magical Secrets?

[Malifice]

Did he dip ranger, or just take ranger spells for his Magical Secrets?

Hes a natural explorer. He dipped.

[Naanomi]

Did he dip ranger, or just take ranger spells for his Magical Secrets?
It's more about (revised) Natural Explorer I think, but could just be an oddly spent Expertise in Survival

[Temperjoke]

He could have taken the Outlander background, which gives the Survival skill and Feature: Wanderer, which covers a lot of the same general concept as a 1 level dip in ranger would offer. He and his DM just modified his bond and stuff.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Fair enough. I guess my problem with the lore bard for this purpose is the reliance on charisma over intelligence, and the signature bardic inspiration. To some extent the whole thing smacks of a class that isn't sure what it's supposed to be anymore. If it's more Indiana Jones than minstrel-in-a-dungeon then why have bardic inspiration? I don't remember Indy singing as he fought the Nazis (I know it doesn't have to just mean singing, but it still doesn't gel with the adventure professor concept in my mind). I certainly am nitpicking, however. I guess if I ever play such a character I'll just make a bard, reskin bardic inspiration as "applied lore" and see if the GM lets me use Int as my casting ability.

To be fair, Harrison Ford is charismatic as hell as Indiana Jones.

[HidesHisEyes]

To be fair, Harrison Ford is charismatic as hell as Indiana Jones.

But I'd argue that's just him, not his "class" so to speak.

To be clear, I was talking about making a character who has the same job as Volo, not making Volo. Adventurer-scholar suggests Intelligence over Charisma to me.

Based on the PHB description, the lore bards are more like the Woody Guthries and Bob Dylans of the D&D world.

[Tanarii]

But I'd argue that's just him, not his "class" so to speak. The problem with translating real world based fantasy into magic elves fantasy is there is no magic or elves in the former. Which makes translating 'Indy' kind of hard, u less you're willing to add more fantastical elements. You end up making every character a Barbarian (Berserker), Fighter (Champion or BM), or Rogue (Thief or Assassin).

For example, Indy is very clearly a whip-wielding Thief Sage if you do the that. As is Lara Croft, except she's a hand crossbow wielding one.

I also hate that music is so embedded in the Bard class for that reason. Otherwise a jack-of-all-trades type class that has magical and ... uh skill skills, with option to either focus on that or shore up combat skills, is great for a lot of concepts.

[JellyPooga]

I also hate that music is so embedded in the Bard class for that reason.

Except it's really not. Not outside the Class Description, arcane focus and Tool Proficiencies. Every ability they have that has some kind of musical description offers an alternative in the Class Feature. E.g. Countercharm mentions "musical notes or words of power" and Bardic Inspiration says "stirring words or music". Even Song of Rest offers you "oration".

Aside from their tool proficiencies, nothing about being a Bard requires you to sing, perform, play or hum even a single note. You could easily play a tone-deaf Bard in 5ed.

[Arkhios]

I'll buy a ticket for that carriage too.

It's an important point that few Bards are Elan; they're far more Indiana Jones than Minstrel-in-a-Dungeon.

Also, unlike Elan, most (lore) bards are not stupid! :smallbiggrin:

[NecroDancer]

So Volo is a ranger 1/lore bard X, I think he dumped wisdom as he dosn't seem to think things through. He probably has the lucky feat and a high CON.

[Tanarii]

Except it's really not. Not outside the Class Description, arcane focus and Tool Proficiencies. Every ability they have that has some kind of musical description offers an alternative in the Class Feature. E.g. Countercharm mentions "musical notes or words of power" and Bardic Inspiration says "stirring words or music". Even Song of Rest offers you "oration".

Aside from their tool proficiencies, nothing about being a Bard requires you to sing, perform, play or hum even a single note. You could easily play a tone-deaf Bard in 5ed.I'm sorry, but "words of power" and "stirring words" are the same thing ... storytelling and saga. But okay then, instead of "music is so embedded" change it to "entertainer is so embedded".

Granted, I get around this by making all my Bards as Skalds or Druidic Bards. Which is, of course, their source inspiration so that's entirely fi. But the taint of 'troubadour' is instinctively still there. In other words, I'm fully aware it's a problem with my own perception. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I'm not up to speed with Volo, so I can't really comment, but is he similar to a Druidic / Lore Bard (diplomat, keeper of ancient histories & magics) or a Skald / Valor Bard (skilled at combat, teller of sagas)?

[JellyPooga]

I'm sorry, but "words of power" and "stirring words" are the same thing ... storytelling and saga. But okay then, instead of "music is so embedded" change it to "entertainer is so embedded".

Granted, I get around this by making all my Bards as Skalds or Druidic Bards. Which is, of course, their source inspiration so that's entirely fi. But the taint of 'troubadour' is instinctively still there. In other words, I'm fully aware it's a problem with my own perception. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, I get where you're coming from; the "taint" (as you put it) is definitely there, but it can also definitely be avoided.

Think of a Bard playing as a Gandalf-esque figure; on the one hand being a loremaster (Expertise), on the other an expert horseman (butt-ton of Skill profs), then turning round and swinging his magic sword (Longsword prof), then hurling a spell (Spellcasting, Magical Secrets), then chanting an ancient spell to bolster his companions' will against evil magic (Countercharm), directing his allies in combat (Bardic Inspiration) with as much efficiency as he convinces others to join their cause (high Charisma, Persuasion) and finally, at the end of a hard days adventure, sitting down with a pipe and reassuring his companions with his mere presence and maybe a tale of aeons passed (Song of Rest). No trace of "troubadour", "minstrel" or even necessarily "orator"...just pure, unadulterated "adventurer".

Where Gandalf might be a Lore Bard, you could argue Aragorn as a Valour Bard in very similar terms; two very different characters, same Class, no "troubadour taint". Sure, they do some singing in the books, but only because Tolkein liked his songs; even the Dwarf Fighters and Goblins did a heap of singing, so I don't think you can put much stock in that!

[Temperjoke]

Maybe it's just a matter of perception, maybe everyone who casts a spell actually sings and harmonizes the words so they sound like music, and we've just never thought about it that way? So the confusing thing with entertainment bards is when they actually are casting as spell versus when they're just playing music?

[Grod_The_Giant]

But I'd argue that's just him, not his "class" so to speak.

To be clear, I was talking about making a character who has the same job as Volo, not making Volo. Adventurer-scholar suggests Intelligence over Charisma to me.

Based on the PHB description, the lore bards are more like the Woody Guthries and Bob Dylans of the D&D world.
I was just looking at Mystic for a build like that, actually. Maybe something like (Revised) Ranger or Rogue 1-2/Awakened Mystic 10. Pick more "internal" Disciplines like Mental Vault and fluff everything as just being excessively smart and logical to the point of (perhaps literally) making people's heads explode. (Think Tommy Oblivion from the Nightside series, if you've read those)

[Willie the Duck]

Maybe it's just a matter of perception, maybe everyone who casts a spell actually sings and harmonizes the words so they sound like music, and we've just never thought about it that way? So the confusing thing with entertainment bards is when they actually are casting as spell versus when they're just playing music?

Or they just have a couple of archetypes (loremaster, singing adventurer) rolled up into one main class. Look, D&D is an archetype(class)-based character creation system. There are going to be boundary issues where someone will say, "I don't like where ____ was stuck." and that's just the nature of the beast. Certainly in 3e this character type could be replicated by factotum (which would more conveniently ping off INT). They could have done that for 5e, but then the lore-bard archetype fans would have been upset. Unless we want the extreme class expansion of 3e (or frankly just using a classless system), we'll run into these issues.

OTOH, I think a high-int Lore Bard without the performance skill (or fluffed as performance-author) and Outlander background is a perfectly good interpretation of Volo.