Replacing Standard action with Swift action

[Kuu Lightwing]

Can you do that?

If not, does this work?

1) By Rules Compendium, you can use a standard action to ready a swift action.
2) Ready a swift action as standard action with condition "right now".
3) You successfully replaced standard action with a swift action.

[Necroticplague]

Can you do that?

If not, does this work?

1) By Rules Compendium, you can use a standard action to ready a swift action.
2) Ready a swift action as standard action with condition "right now".
3) You successfully replaced standard action with a swift action.




The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Sorry, but nice attempt.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Sorry, but nice attempt.

Aw. :(

Well, but still substituting a standard for swift - how reasonable is it? Is it supported by any rules whatsoever?

[D.M.Hentchel]

Seems totally reasonable.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Depends on whether you need to do anything afterwards. You can act right after your current turn, but if you haven't used your move action yet, you don't get to use it after your readied swift.

[Psyren]

Depends on whether you need to do anything afterwards. You can act right after your current turn, but if you haven't used your move action yet, you don't get to use it after your readied swift.

This. Move, Swift, Ready Swift, End Turn = Swift fires. You've successfully taken 2 swifts and a move consecutively.

But if you need both swifts before moving, you're SOL.

[KillianHawkeye]

Aw. :(

Well, but still substituting a standard for swift - how reasonable is it? Is it supported by any rules whatsoever?


Seems totally reasonable.

Not really. Most of the things that can be done with Swift and Immediate actions are balanced based on the assumption that you can only use one each turn. Casting a Quickened spell, for example, which before Swift actions existed was listed as being a free action you can only do once per turn. Using a boost maneuver from Tome of Battle is another; it would be pretty broken to be able to use two at once. Shuffling around your essentia if you're playing an Incarnum class.... probably most of the things you can do with a Swift action continue to prove the point.

Swift action abilities are generally pretty strong or very useful.

[Psyren]

I agree - simply letting you trade your standard for a swift would (I think) throw things off whack.

However, for that trade to also require you to use your move action before ending your turn or else lose it - I think that's a combination good enough to allow for two swifts per round, as the rules currently do. And then on top of that, if you use your immediate action, you cannot repeat this next round.

[Calthropstu]

Sorry, but nice attempt.

Eh, you can ready it for "Immediately after my turn is done" according to that, thus resulting in no initiative change.

[Crake]

While you might be able to ready a swift action for just after your turn is over, you're still limited to 1 swift action per round, meaning you won't have one on your coming turn, as if you'd used an immediate action.

[Nifft]

One of the WotC StarWars games allowed trading any action "down", like:
Standard -> Move
Standard or Move -> Swift

I suspect it would be balanced in some games, and unbalanced in others -- it really depends what you can do with your Swift actions.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Casting a Quickened spell, for example [...] Using a boost maneuver from Tome of Battle is another
Well, trading a standard action to cast a swift-action Quickened spell is basically admitting you didn't need to Quicken it in the first place. I mean, it's situationally useful for those arcane spellsurge/Battle Blessing situations where everything is quickened, but hardly game-breaking, as all those situations already lead to two-spells-per-round anyway.

Using two boosts is neato, but since you're using your standard, you have exactly no actions left with which to attack. Maybe a Swiftblade or choker could do something with that, but that's the power of extra actions, not the power of trading standards for swifts.


In the end, swift actions are absolutely very powerful, but in most cases, they're about triggering abilities that boost your main action for the round. Stances, essentia, class features - even quickened spells are often buffs, such as wraithstrike and grave strike. Having two of them at the cost of your main attack is not often a good trade, and when it is, it's generally not broken (at least, not because of the trade).

[Darrin]

While you might be able to ready a swift action for just after your turn is over, you're still limited to 1 swift action per round, meaning you won't have one on your coming turn, as if you'd used an immediate action.

Not so. You get one swift action per turn, not per round. When you ready a swift action, you take it as another turn later in the round.

The Mobile Spellcasting feat can be used to cast a swift action spell as a standard action. You get to move, too.

[Kuu Lightwing]

Not so. You get one swift action per turn, not per round. When you ready a swift action, you take it as another turn later in the round.

The Mobile Spellcasting feat can be used to cast a swift action spell as a standard action. You get to move, too.

Wait. Why a readied swift action would use up your swift action? I mean, when you use a standard to ready move or another standard, you don't use up any extra actions - you "paid" for it with your standard action. It doesn't suddenly work as immediate, and I see no reason why readied swift should work differently

[Darrin]

Wait. Why a readied swift action would use up your swift action? I mean, when you use a standard to ready move or another standard, you don't use up any extra actions - you "paid" for it with your standard action. It doesn't suddenly work as immediate, and I see no reason why readied swift should work differently

I didn't say it did that, and I don't see support in the text for that. There's an argument that since you're taking a swift action before your next turn, then the swift you readied should count as an immediate action. However, the text doesn't support this. When you take your readied action, it becomes your turn again, so it can't be an immediate action. Yes, this allows you to take two "turns" per round (move + swift, then another swift).

[Kuu Lightwing]

I didn't say it did that, and I don't see support in the text for that. There's an argument that since you're taking a swift action before your next turn, then the swift you readied should count as an immediate action. However, the text doesn't support this. When you take your readied action, it becomes your turn again, so it can't be an immediate action. Yes, this allows you to take two "turns" per round (move + swift, then another swift).

But it doesn't become your turn again. You just take whatever action you readied and your initiative changes.

[Pleh]

Maybe my friends and I have been houseruleing this for all these years without my knowing it, but we always played that you could always "downgrade" an action.

You could use your standard action to take a move action to double move and still have a swift left, or you could sacrifice moving, take two swifts and a standard, or even downgrade everything to swifts and take 3 swift actions.

[Calthropstu]

I could think of a reason to bar this: quickened summons.

I saw how ridiculous my mythic oracle got with speedy summons, superior summons, and improved summons. 1d3+2 twice per round was... a bit much.

[Coretron03]

Hey cal, I don't see what's wrong with that as you could have used your standard action to summon more monsters anyway and using a swift action to do that twice seems a pointless way to use up mythic points.

[Darrin]

But it doesn't become your turn again. You just take whatever action you readied and your initiative changes.

Hmm. This is correct. I thought there was something in the rules that mentioned the readied action is another turn, but I got bupkis. The rules say:

"The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun." (PHB p. 160)

So this says the readied action does not create a new turn, it happens explicitly between your last turn and your next turn.

However, readying a swift action this way does not change that action type to an immediate action. The two action types are distinctly different. If you use an immediate action outside of your turn, it counts as your swift action for your next turn. But you didn't ready an immediate action, you readied a swift action. You're not violating the "only one swift action per turn" rule and there's no rules text that says readying a swift action this way counts as an immediate action or as your swift action for your next turn.

So by RAW, I think this still works. But I can see why some DMs might insist that readying a swift uses up your next swift action.

[Jowgen]

I concur with Darrin's logic here.