Nature Bard

[Hunterx]

Anyone ever use this alternative class feature? As in the other post starting a new game and trying to come up with a char have decided to not worry about optimizing the char just making him very useful. Looking at this right now thinking it could be good.

Marshal 4
Paladin of freedom 3
Nature Bard 12
Dragon Hunter 1

Feats not 100% sure to do but I know natural bond will be one of them and the cross class feat for paladin Bard cannot think about what it is called.
Dragon touched, draconian aura and double draconian aura.

That is 5 feat leaving three
Plus 2 from flaws
1 bonus feat from human.

[Troacctid]

It is very strong at low levels, and the action economy advantage is no joke. A full-strength animal companion is the real deal and a fair trade for inspire courage/bardic knowledge IMO, especially in smaller parties. The main drawback is that it does not play nicely with prestige classes, because you lose animal companion advancement.

[Pyromancer999]

It is very strong at low levels, and the action economy advantage is no joke. A full-strength animal companion is the real deal and a fair trade for inspire courage/bardic knowledge IMO, especially in smaller parties. The main drawback is that it does not play nicely with prestige classes, because you lose animal companion advancement.

Could always combine it with Savage Bard and take Greensinger Initiate to go into Planar Shepherd. Get Wildshape from Abolisher(fits more with the fluff, but lose a level of AC advancement), or Lion of Talisid(more levels till Wildshape, but full AC advancement).

[A.A.King]

Anyone ever use this alternative class feature? As in the other post starting a new game and trying to come up with a char have decided to not worry about optimizing the char just making him very useful. Looking at this right now thinking it could be good.

Marshal 4
Paladin of freedom 3
Nature Bard 12
Dragon Hunter 1

Feats not 100% sure to do but I know natural bond will be one of them and the cross class feat for paladin Bard cannot think about what it is called.
Dragon touched, draconian aura and double draconian aura.

That is 5 feat leaving three
Plus 2 from flaws
1 bonus feat from human.

First things first: The Paladin / Bard Multiclass feat you are thinking of is "Devoted Performer". Secondly, I am assuming you're taking the Dragontouched feat simply because you want the Dragonblood Subtype to power your Draconic Aura. If so, you should consider simply playing a Silverbrow Human, you lose the Human's innate +1 skill point each level but instead gain the dragonblood subtype (and some other minor bonuses). Thirdly: Where are you getting this Dragon Hunter PrC from? The only thing I can find is some homebrew.

Generally advise: I would ditch the Marshal levels (which also makes the double draconic aura feat worthless). While a Marshal can pick up a Draconic Aura instead of a Major Aura (and I assume that is what you plan on doing), that Aura still progresses based on your Marshal levels instead of based on your character level, and as such will never be more than a +1 (which isn't worth the investment). They are also holding back your Animal Companion. Any build focusing on an Animal Companion (and a Nature Bard usually is) should have as few levels not progressing Animal Companion as possible.

As to answer your first question: No, the Nature Bard isn't generally used. Not because it is neccesarily weak, but because you trade in the reasons you play a bard.


Could always combine it with Savage Bard and take Greensinger Initiate to go into Planar Shepherd. Get Wildshape from Abolisher(fits more with the fluff, but lose a level of AC advancement), or Lion of Talisid(more levels till Wildshape, but full AC advancement).

While Savage Bard qualifies you for Greensinger Initiate, the feat itself is useless for you because it specifically mentions the Druid Spell list and Druid Class List. Similarly, Lion of Talisid, Abolisher and Planar Shepherd only progress Divine Spellcasting (I realise that Lion of Talisid's table doesn't mention the word Divine but as well all know: Text Trumps Table).

In fact, out of all the classes mentioned Abolisher is the only one a Bard can make work although not as a Savage Bard (Savage Bard is Chaotic-Only and Abolisher is Non-Chaotic Only). Abolisher's prerequistes mean that a Divine Bard with the 'Nature Bard' ACF can get in. (Though once you go Divine Bard you might as well go Druid, unless you really want to combine Wildshape with Snowflake Wardance and/or Otto's Irresistible Dance or something)

[Troacctid]

As to answer your first question: No, the Nature Bard isn't generally used. Not because it is neccesarily weak, but because you trade in the reasons you play a bard.
Pssh, speak for yourself! I play bards for the skill points and spellcasting. It's one of the best skillmonkey classes in the game. There's a lot more to the class than inspire courage optimization. Like half my bards don't even use inspire courage. (I'm actually a big fan of inspire awe. The DC is basically unbeatable, and it synergizes very well with a lot of stuff.)

[Waazraath]

No, it's not used a lot that I know of, but it is fun and good enough, imo. You can make a lot of nice builds with it.

One I really like is to combine it with Arcane Hierophant. You can take the obtain familiar feat with bard, a few levels of Druid, and qualify for Arcane Hierophant. Animal companion stacks, and the prestige class gives you the goodies of both animal companion and familiar. Total bonusses familiar companion: +12HD, +21 AC, +6 str, +6 dex, 14 int ; Abilities: link, share spells, evasion, devotion, multiattack, improved evasion, alertness, improved evasion, share spells, empathic link, deliver touch spells, speak with master, speak with animals of its kind, spell resistance, scry on familiar.

Bard 4, druid 3, Bard +3, sublime chord +1, Arcane hierophant +9, for 9th level arcane and 6th level druid spells as well.

But you can also use it as a mounted combattant with bard 20 (spirited charge feat line, more combat feats like power attack, snowflake wardance, knowledge devotion), or use it as a debuffer mostly (doomspeak, imperious command, dreadful wrath, etc.), or focus on support casting with good mobility from the mount; or several of the above in the same build.

[Soranar]

One trick you should look at is using Alter Self and the share spells feature of animal companions

If you do that, make sure to take the exalted companion feat (which lets you pick magical beasts)

a large magical beast can then be turned into a 5 headed hydra through alter self, it's a very good combo for a sword of the arcane order paladin and it's just as powerful for you

[Thurbane]

On a not-very related topic: is there any way for Bards to get Trapfinding and Search as a class skill without dipping or PrCing?

Only thing I can think of is a Bard with the Kobold Domain (through Arcane Disciple), or be of a race that gets limited trap finding as a racial feature (such as dwarf) and take a feat to get search as a class skill.

[Soranar]

If there is such an option it won't be found in wotc material. For some reason search is an extremely difficult class skill to add to your skills

The only way I can think of is to use Aereni focus to get it as a class skill

as for trapfinding I don't know of any ACF that would grant it either

[Hunterx]

With this I was seriously thinking about do nature bard, and Druid to get the 2 animal companions. Would split the classes back and forth till I got what I needed to go into the arcan heirophant. Use natural bond on both of them, and take the celestial companion feat to,improve them a little more. I think this might be the way I'll end up going.

[A.A.King]

With this I was seriously thinking about do nature bard, and Druid to get the 2 animal companions. Would split the classes back and forth till I got what I needed to go into the arcan heirophant. Use natural bond on both of them, and take the celestial companion feat to,improve them a little more. I think this might be the way I'll end up going.

That's sadly not how it works. If you go Druid 3 / Nature Bard 4 / Arcane Hierophant X you don't get two animal companions with 2 different progressions, instead you get one Animal Companion as if you were a Druid of your character level.


Class Level: The character’s druid level. The druid’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion’s abilities and the alternative lists available to the character.

[Hunterx]

Incorrect, it stats you get an anima companion as a Druid. So your levels in bard would be the equivalent to what a Druid would be. So taking a Druid would also get an animal companion at its level of Druid.

[ZamielVanWeber]

If they do not stack arcane heirophant would not progress both. In fact, if those do not stack then arcane Heirophant would remove one companion permanently.


You may retain any one animal companion you already possess. You add your arcane hierophant class level to your druid or ranger level for purposes of determining your animal companion's bonus Hit Dice, natural armor adjustment, and Strength/Dexterity adjustment (see the sidebar The Druid's Animal Companion, page 36 of the Player's Handbook).

[Hunterx]

You are 100% correct the arcan will not progress both it will progress the one you pick. The other one would be whatever level plus natural bond

It would remove one yes and replace it with a familier companion

[ZamielVanWeber]

You are 100% correct the arcan will not progress both it will progress the one you pick. The other one would be whatever level plus natural bond
That makes me wonder why you are doing this? An animal companion that does not scale is just going to bog down combats uselessly and die a lot.


It would remove one yes and replace it with a familier companion

No. The retained one is the familiar companion. The other is simply gone. Arcane Heirophant would reduce you to one campanion.

I am not sure why you are doing this. Assuming you find a DM that subscribes strictly to your version of events, you would have a bad animal campanion and nerfed familiar companion instead of a single stronger familiar companion.

Edit: I forgot to point out you cannot take a feat multiple times unless it says so, so one animal companion is going to eat a lot of levels lost under what you want.

[Hunterx]

This is not true, Arcan says you dismiss your familier not your animal companions. So the one at you pick to be the familier companion would become that and the second one would remain an animal companion. It really is not that hard to figure out I do not know why you have issues seeing that if you wanted to buy level 7 you could have 3 animal companions and by 17 you could have 6 if you truly wanted.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I guess the line "you may retain any one animal companion" is synonymous with "you may retain any number of animal companions" to you? I do not see how I can make plain English clearer but it is clear you do not want information but validation and thus I am sorry but I do not believe I can be of further assistance.