Cleric Help

[JNAProductions]

Level 3, standard WBL, 30 points buy, not sure on flaws.

Also, all casters are spontaneous.

How do I make a kick-ass cleric with these abilities? Thinking about going DMM Persist, just for funsies, but any advice is appreciated!

[ExLibrisMortis]

Anthrobat cloistered cleric with Planning & Undeath domains, Persistent Spell at first level, and DMM:Persist at third level. That's really basic, has no specific feats and requires no flaws, has enough spells, but does sadly eat a slight charisma hit (-2), so start with a 14 in charisma, or (two) flaw(s) for (Extra) Extra Turning. If you use a flaw to grab DMM:Persist, you can grab Craft Wondrous Item at level three, to craft delicious nightsticks.

If anthrobat doesn't seem like your cup of tea, you can play other fun things (anthrotoads even have favoured class: cleric), such as lesser aasimar, with their +2 wis/cha, or a plain human. I'm pretty sure that the only 1 RHD/0 LA creatures with more than +2 wisdom are anthropomorphic animals.

[GilesTheCleric]

What kind of character interests you? What game mechanics do you like using most?

[JNAProductions]

Power. Power! POWER! :P

Actually, I'd like to be the kind of Cleric who smashes stuff with a big stick. Looking at the SRD, DMM Persisting Bull's Strength and Divine Favor seems like a good start.

Which also means Anthrobat is probably a bad choice.

[Troacctid]

List of persistable spells (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7260)

[JNAProductions]

List of persistable spells (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7260)

You're a potato, Troac!

That's a compliment. :P

[GilesTheCleric]

What books or setting restrictions do you have?

[Troacctid]

There's also a good list of spell suggestions in Giles's signature as well.

I would make sure to be good-aligned. Good-aligned clerics can spontaneously cast exalted spells, which is a huge addition to your effective spells known.

If you want a +WIS race, you can try the Tortle from Dragon 315. It's slow, but very tanky (as expected for turtle people), so it's solid for frontliners, although -2 CHA hurts a bit. Or you could just be a human and use your bonus feat for Extra Turning, or be an illumian and effectively get a cheaper 2/day version of DMM as a racial ability.

[JNAProductions]

This is what I have so far: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1033129

And I'm not sure yet. Checking the thread...

No homebrew or incarnum.

Edit: And I like the anthro bat. I found such a cute picture for it!

[John Longarrow]

If you can, for 5th level I'd suggest going Crusader if your DM will allow you to adopt Ruby Knight Vindicator for your deity. Alternately it looks like you can just have Wee Jas as your deity without much in the way of issues and run with it.

5th level lets you grab damage boosters that ignore DR/hardness. RKV then lets you really tank out and smash stuff.

[JNAProductions]

I'm actually gonna go TWF, using a Quarterstaff. I swapped Knowledge Devotion for the first TWF feat, but I'm gonna pick it back up when I get my next feat.

[John Longarrow]

With a 15 starting dex you CAN go TWF, but you will never be able to get the better versions without some funky tricks. You will be wanting to boost your casting stat instead.

If you follow how a bat works, your hands would be on your wings, so you couldn't hold anything in them while flying. That would severely limit your ability to fight and move. Not sure if the anthro gives you extra limbs or not though. Still, small with slow flight isn't going to do well when you are trying to fight in melee. Smashing stuff with a big stick normally requires you to be able to hold a big stick.

[JNAProductions]

With a 15 starting dex you CAN go TWF, but you will never be able to get the better versions without some funky tricks. You will be wanting to boost your casting stat instead.

If you follow how a bat works, your hands would be on your wings, so you couldn't hold anything in them while flying. That would severely limit your ability to fight and move. Not sure if the anthro gives you extra limbs or not though. Still, small with slow flight isn't going to do well when you are trying to fight in melee. Smashing stuff with a big stick normally requires you to be able to hold a big stick.

I'll see what level of gouda the other players bring. I know this is FAR from the best, but I think it's cool.

And I think I have arms AND wings.

[GilesTheCleric]

If you're planning on hitting things with sticks, you've got many routes to take:

1a) straight persist/ extend. Grab the domains mentioned above by Libris Mortis, go to town.

1b) grab two domains that also grant turning, then take improved turning for 3x the value. This is probably best if you're getting some flaws or don't need your build to come online until a bit later in the game. Also good in games that don't allow nightstick stacking.

2) trick out a specific stick to hit stuff with. There's several spells that give you touch-attack weapons; those will let you tank your BAB so you can PA until you're blue in the face, or your enemies are red in the face, whichever comes first (hint: it'll be the enemies).

3) ignore buffing spells and get straight to the source: polymorphing. Clerics do get some (good) polymorph spells on their class list, but they can pick up the whole line via domains.

4) get SAD. Pick either cha or wis (well, you could optimise damage from any stat, really, but those are the easiest) and go into bard-style wardancing, or (cleric?)-style intuition.

5) get more attacks. Between race, domains, and spells, you can get some pretty nasty secondary natural attack routines.

6) rather than buffing yourself, turn your foes into punching bags and take your sweet, sweet time. Between straight debuffs and one-way BFC, there's a lot of creative ways to do this.

There's probably some fun tricks you could do that utilise flying, but somehow I've never really thought to look. All of these approaches should work fine with the quarterstaff.

[JNAProductions]

Can exact details be provided? My op-fu is weak, so I need this sort of thing spelled out for me.

That being said, I don't really know what sort of cheese-levels are being looked it, so the build might actually be okay as is.

Either way, thank you all for helping!

[apocryphaGnosis]

It won't be available to you for a few levels, but the Ordained Champion is a lovely PrC for melee clerics. Not the most powerful, but very fun. If you have any domain powers you don't want, you can swap them out for fighter feats like TWF, and at 4th level, you can spontaneously cast War Domain spells. I picked up the Holy Warrior feat to get free bonus damage equal to the highest spell level available.

[GilesTheCleric]

Can exact details be provided?

Sure; which of the approaches do you like best? All of them have a lot of variation and possible complexity.

Edit: I spy a homestuck fan.

[JNAProductions]

How do I get more attacks?

And how did you know I was a fan of Homestuck?

[GilesTheCleric]

I actually didn't know you were a fan of homestuck, though you do have a Thief of Heart brew that might be a tip-off. I was referencing apocryphaGnosis, whose name was the hint.

There's a fair number of races that come with extra attacks/ limbs; kobolds get tail spikes; diopsids (DC) and thri-kreen have four arms. Starting as an anthro octopus gives you 8 arms.

In terms of domains, you have a lot of choices. Bestial (BoVD) gives you all the spells you want to buff your natural attacks. Demonic (BoVD) gives you a flat damage increase to them, which is good at low levels/ with multipliers. Destruction Devotion (CC) lets you tear away your foes' AC with each hit, giving you more and more PA room. Diabolic (FC2) has Devil's Ego, which lets you change your type to outsider if you're planning on polymorphing; it also has Devil's Tail, which is another attack. Drow (SC) has the Spiderform spell, which lets you become a drider with a built-in natural poison attack (hello, Venomfire (SK)). Fire Devotion (CC) gives you scaling fire damage and a DoT to every hit. Luck Devotion (CC) lets you always take average damage, which is great for consistency with a lot of attacks. Transformation (RoE) gives you the entire polymorph line, and +1 CL so you can have a 2-min Enlarge Person at level 1 to boot. Alteration (DCS) is the same. Nature (OA, if your GM lets you use Shaman domains) gives you Possess Animal, which is like polymorph, but lower-level. Hunger gives you a bite attack. Travel Devotion (CC), of course, lets you get in full attacks when everyone else is using single attacks. Animal Devotion (CC) gives you a bite attack.

In terms of spells, the holy trinity (divine power, righteous might, and righteous wrath of the faithful) and other typical cleric buffs are always good, but consider also: Touch of Blipdoolpoolp (Drag342), which gives you another attack; Battlearms (Drag356), which gives you four arms and divine power; Incarnation of Set (Drag313) or Incarnation of Evil (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), which lets you polymorph; Nails of Luthic (Drag342), which gives you another attack; Aura of Power (Drag304), which buffs your natural damage; or Cannibalize (Drag312) which replaces Hunger 3, and gives you a vampiric bite. Blood Wind lets you attack at range. Spider Hand gives you an entire extra body. Investiture of the Spined Devil gives you three ranged attacks. Beast Claws gives you two more attacks. Claws of the Savage gives you two more attacks. Claws of the Beblith gives you two more attacks. Girallon's Blessing gives you more arms for more claw attacks. Yochlol Blessing gives you 8 more attacks. Bebilith Blessing gives you three more attacks.

In terms of feats, there's a few I have in my collection: Claws of the Beast (FC1) increases your natural/ unarmed damage; Divine Fury (Drag305) which increases your BAB even higher than divine power; Intuitive Attack (BoED) gives you wis to to-hit rather than str; Sacred Outlaw (Drag357) lets you stack Clr and Rog levels for SA; Snap Kick (ToB) gives you an extra attack; Expert Tactician (SaF) gives you an extra attack; Primordial Scion (FC1) gives you +1d6/attack vs Lawful; Deformity (Teeth) gives you a bite attack; Planar Touchstone: Oxyrhynchus (PlH) gives you an extra attack.

In terms of items, there's tons that improve your attack, of course. Specific to clerics and this approach, I would recommend the Bracers of Divine Luck (CC, 8k) if you have a Luck deity. They give you +1 to everything for a round each time you use a spell. There's also the Extracting Tentacle graft (Und, 45k), which gives you a brain-removing tentacle attack.

I hope that's enough to get you started; I haven't built a natural-attacking Cleric in depth before, since there's other classes that make it a little easier (ie totemist or druid; I'm sure Eggynack's handbook probably has some additional tips on getting more attacks).