Sword burst + distant spell

[Drackolus]

Sword burst hits everyone "within range," which is listed as 5 ft. If you use distant spell on it, it is doubled, meaning you can hit all targets within 10 ft for a sorcery point. Am I missing anything?
Thunderclap does not share this language, or so it looks like to me.

[Baptor]

Sword burst hits everyone "within range," which is listed as 5 ft. If you use distant spell on it, it is doubled, meaning you can hit all targets within 10 ft for a sorcery point. Am I missing anything?
Thunderclap does not share this language, or so it looks like to me.

Considering how underpowered I feel Sorcerers are, I'd rule yes.

[BiPolar]

Sword burst hits everyone "within range," which is listed as 5 ft. If you use distant spell on it, it is doubled, meaning you can hit all targets within 10 ft for a sorcery point. Am I missing anything?
Thunderclap does not share this language, or so it looks like to me.

I think there may be confusion around the word "range". I think the Intent is the range of the spell is doubled and not the range of the effects.

[bid]

I think there may be confusion around the word "range". I think the Intent is the range of the spell is doubled and not the range of the effects.
Well it says "Range: 5 feet" and uses "within range".

[BiPolar]

Well it says "Range: 5 feet" and uses "within range".

I agree, and I'm not sure about it :) It also talks about taking a range of touch and allowing it to extend 30'. Which implies it is range of effects, but range of spell casting. Spells like thunderclap and Sword Burst seem to basically mean they are centered on you, but effect 5' around you. The point of distant spell seems to extend the distance at which you can cast (hold person at 120'). It woulda lso mean that spells like "arms of Hadar" now effect creatures in a 20' radius, or 40' diameter, if that is the intent, which seems massively overpowered.

[Waffle_Iron]

I agree, and I'm not sure about it :) It also talks about taking a range of touch and allowing it to extend 30'. Which implies it is range of effects, but range of spell casting. Spells like thunderclap and Sword Burst seem to basically mean they are centered on you, but effect 5' around you. The point of distant spell seems to extend the distance at which you can cast (hold person at 120'). It woulda lso mean that spells like "arms of Hadar" now effect creatures in a 20' radius, or 40' diameter, if that is the intent, which seems massively overpowered.

Arms of Hadar has a range of self, though.
Sword burst has range: 5

[BiPolar]

Arms of Hadar has a range of self, though.
Sword burst has range: 5

Technically, it has a range of Self(10' radius). Which is effectively what Sword Burst has.

If you go strictly by RAW and want to try to convince your DM to make it work like that because of unclear writing, more power to you. But if someone presented that to me, I'd say that the intent of Distant Spell is to allow you to cast a spell from a further distance, not to extend the range of the spell effects.

[bid]

I'd say that the intent of Distant Spell is to allow you to cast a spell from a further distance, not to extend the range of the spell effects.
Is there any other "within range" spells or is sword burst a fluke?

[BiPolar]

Is there any other "within range" spells or is sword burst a fluke?

It looks like Sword Burst is a fluke (and it's a cantrip, making a 10' effect range, basically a 20' diameter centered on you incredibly powerful.)

[Drackolus]

Yeah, it's a weird one. Like I said, Thunderclap, which is essentially the same spell, has a range of "self" and not "5 ft." pretty sure it's just a mistake and could be errata'd, but it would have to be brought up to Wizards. I do agree that it's probably not intended to work like that. An evoker wizard/sorcerer can even eventually add int and it could be empowered on the same cast, costing a total of 2 sorc points to potentially hit up to 25 medim sized targets for an average of (I think) 17.75 (when empowered) for a 20 int wiz10/sorc 3, save for half. Bit strong.

[BiPolar]

Yeah, it's a weird one. Like I said, Thunderclap, which is essentially the same spell, has a range of "self" and not "5 ft." pretty sure it's just a mistake and could be errata'd, but it would have to be brought up to Wizards. I do agree that it's probably not intended to work like that. An evoker wizard/sorcerer can even eventually add int and it could be empowered on the same cast, costing a total of 2 sorc points to potentially hit up to 25 medim sized targets for an average of (I think) 17.75 (when empowered) for a 20 int wiz10/sorc 3, save for half. Bit strong.

I don't have a twitter account (nor do I want one), but seems like a great thing to bring up to Crawford. At my table, I would not rule that you could do this, but your mileage may vary.

[Drackolus]

I tweeted it. We'll see what he says. Hopefully.

[SharkForce]

so a level 13 (probably fairly squishy) character can be pretty good at using a cantrip to do mediocre damage in an area centered on themselves.

honestly, i wouldn't be that worried if i was you. unless you're in a campaign that revolves around you being attacked by thousands of tiny melee creatures at a time, i can't help but suspect this is really a pretty minor concern.

[Eragon123]

Comparing Arms of Hadar to this is a good baseline. Extending it does do the same area but it is save or suck while Arms of Hadar always do damage. The Arms of Hadar also have an additional bonus if you hit. So applying distant spell would cost 1 point whereas a sorcerer with Arms of Hadar (through feat or multiclassing) it would cost two. So I think it's fair.

[Asmotherion]

Considering how underpowered I feel Sorcerers are, I'd rule yes.

Nerfed, sure. Underpowered, definitelly not.

Don't forget 2 of 5e's strongest bulds revolve around Sorcerers that simply diped 2-3 levels.

-Warlock 3/Sorcerer X is the best blaster in the game, and with specific builds can also holds his own as a melee caster.
-The Paladin 2/Sorcerer X (and variations) is the key to the highest Nova dammage in the game.

What the Sorcerer basically lacks is a good offensive synergy mechanic to profit more of his Metamagic. Which I feel is completelly compensated for by multiclassing.

On topic, yes Sword Burst with Distant spell has a range of 10 feet. Thunderclap, on the other hand, has a range of self, thus is not quallified to apply Distant Spell to.

[Nifft]

It looks like Sword Burst is a fluke (and it's a cantrip, making a 10' effect range, basically a 20' diameter centered on you incredibly powerful.)

The diameter would be 25 feet, for a very obvious reason. ;)

Even with this range, I don't think it's incredibly powerful.

[Specter]

By RAW it's viable, and makes sense too. Kinda like 'Halberd Burst', huh? Badumtss.

[RickAllison]

Having a cantrip that simply works differently than anything else certainly wouldn't be unique to Sword Burst. Magic Stone is the only way I know of to make a ranged spell attack with a weapon (with some unique qualities because of that), BB and GFB function completely different to any other spells, and Acid Splash's AoE is unique. And that doesn't even touch things that are unique because you only need one spell for that function...