Help with extra EL17+ demon/ undead encounters for Atropus adventure

[Ghostfoot]

Hi all

I'm about to run a mini-adventure from Level 17 based on the Atropus campaign arc from Elder Evils. There are a few bosses & encounters included in the official book and I'd like some ideas on encounters to flesh this out a little and make it feel engaging not just a series of vanilla "wandering monster" fights.

Specifically to start we will have the players defending a doomed city (yet to be determined which one, but we're playing in the Realms) from a rogue Orcus army of demons and undead led by Gorguth the bodak. Can anyone suggest some cool/ interesting encounter ideas to lead up to the fight with Gorguth? EL should be around 17-20 (since Gorguth encounter is EL21). Ideally you can help by providing:


The encounter setting/ scenario ie what to motivate the encounter and the battle map
The opponents ie creatures/ number of opponents/ including class levels/ templates/ advancements etc as appropriate

Fiendish Codex 1 tells me that in addition to plenty of undead & demons, Orcus' forces often include orcs, half-orcs, ogres, giants & evil humans (possibly themselves undead and/ or fiendish). These could be mini-bosses if that helps to inspire.

Any ideas welcome!

[DrMotives]

If the army include both demons and orcs, why not both? You're already playing in the Realms, so Tanarruk make a natural choice. If they're going to be NPCs, you can ignore LA and focus on CR instead.

[Vaz]

Pit Fiend. Archetypal, and Powerful. As an ECL17+ encounter, its blasphemy will be a real threat.

[Inevitability]

Pit Fiend. Archetypal, and Powerful. As an ECL17+ encounter, its blasphemy will be a real threat.

A pit fiend cooperating with an army of demons is about as likely as a formian deciding it should give self-centered hedonism a try.

[Tiri]

A pit fiend cooperating with an army of demons is about as likely as a formian deciding it should give self-centered hedonism a try.

Why not? Devils are generally have more insidious and complicated motivations than demons.

It's entirely plausible for a pit fiend to have some agenda regarding a demonic army that requires self-insertion.

[Inevitability]

Why not? Devils are generally have more insidious and complicated motivations than demons.

It's entirely plausible for a pit fiend to have some agenda regarding a demonic army that requires self-insertion.

Somehow I doubt an army of demons can muster the self-discipline to not attack their mortal (well, immortal) enemy if given the opportunity to do so.

[Ghostfoot]

Thanks for your ideas!


If the army include both demons and orcs, why not both? You're already playing in the Realms, so Tanarruk make a natural choice. If they're going to be NPCs, you can ignore LA and focus on CR instead.

Tanarruk - nice, I like it. A little squad of frenzied berserkers, blackguards or assassins will mix things up nicely.


Pit Fiend. Archetypal, and Powerful. As an ECL17+ encounter, its blasphemy will be a real threat.

I think devils might be a step too far. I'm looking for stereotypical yet interesting encounters - anything too left field might distract from the feel of the core adventure.

[Tiri]

Somehow I doubt an army of demons can muster the self-discipline to not attack their mortal (well, immortal) enemy if given the opportunity to do so.

The demons might surprise you. After all, they are chaotic.

[Inevitability]

The demons might surprise you. After all, they are chaotic.

You may be underestimating the destructive potential of an eternity-old supernatural grudge.

[Tiri]

You may be underestimating the destructive potential of an eternity-old supernatural grudge.

Or perhaps you're overestimating the difficulty of the grudge to be set aside when the grudge-holder in question is a race of beings that is made of pure chaos and for the most part respects nothing but strength.

[Vaz]

You may be underestimating the destructive potential of an eternity-old supernatural grudge.

Depends. If they are chaotic, then they are able to do anything. It is less likely to have an Army of Devils working with a Demon, but Demons working with a Devil seems more appropriate given their nature.

Edit didn't see Ghostfoots comment. Mariliths are ECL17. Giving them some better weapons and a better feat selection, along with some non associated class levels (6 full caster levels gets it to ECL20).

Alternatively, rogue/shadowpouncer build. 6 Poisoned Blades Sneak Attacking from at Will Greater Teleport would be rather vile to face.

[Zanos]

Or perhaps you're overestimating the difficulty of the grudge to be set aside when the grudge-holder in question is a race of beings that is made of pure chaos and for the most part respects nothing but strength.
Considering that "grudge" has consumed three outer planes permanently(and others temporarily) for as far as any of the mortal races histories can recollect and caused more violence than likely all other conflicts in the planes put together, I think his estimation of how demons and devils feel about each other is pretty accurate. Devils and Demons on other planes are just extensions of the blood war, in most cases, finding souls and power to grease the wheels of their war machine.

Even if the demons would work for the Pit Fiend(extraordinarily unlikely), the Pit Fiend has no reason to use them. It can shape new servants as it needs them out of lemures. Plus, it's a creature of pure Law.

[Tiri]

Considering that "grudge" has consumed three outer planes permanently(and others temporarily) for as far as any of the mortal races histories can recollect and caused more violence than likely all other conflicts in the planes put together, I think his estimation of how demons and devils feel about each other is pretty accurate. Devils and Demons on other planes are just extensions of the blood war, in most cases, finding souls and power to grease the wheels of their war machine.

Even if the demons would work for the Pit Fiend(extraordinarily unlikely), the Pit Fiend has no reason to use them. It can shape new servants as it needs them out of lemures. Plus, it's a creature of pure Law.

Well, perhaps the Pit Fiend had no lemures on hand.

The fact that they are Lawful makes them less likely to just rip apart demons for the sake of hatred if they have a use for the time being, and demons respect strength, which is something a Pit Fiend has no shortage of.