Need some help with a somewhat restricted rogue build

[GSQ|unionjack]

As the title says, I've been struggling a bit with a rogue build, never played one before.

The restrictions here are that I pretty much need to be an elf, a normal one, and although not technically necessary, I should probably take Tomb Tainted Soul at level 1 as my feat. The other party members are a dread Necro and an evil cleric, so it makes tons of sense for them and a bit less for me, but we tend to be more into the RP so they're going to frown a bit if I don't go for it, but if it's critical I'll drop it. Usually we stick to most of the books that aren't too absurd, no 3rd party or 3.0 stuff, miniatures handbook, etc. Starting at level 3, 28 point buy.

I don't have an real limits on what I want, which is sort of why I turned here. I've poked around the idea of a daring outlaw, scout/rogue swift ambusher, master thrower, etc. We're pirates. I'm really open to ranged or melee, and how that is implemented, but the biggest thing is still being mostly a rogue for the skills and persona etc. For what it's worth, my current character (can't decide between this or that) is a wizard illusionist/fatespinner/IotSV, which started as an unseen seer, but I have a tendency to hybrid too much to try and do everything and am trying to force myself to specialize a bit more.

Any help or ideas much appreciated. I keep looking at different ways to implement rogue and am struggling for some context with no rogue experience at all. Thanks!

[finaldooms]

Im not sure if it works with rogue. .but you could focus on sneak attacks and do something like returning throwing daggers (or ninja and stars) its prettt hard being seen or heard if you actually try to be sneaky. And while they arnt aware of you you can get as many sneak attacks as you have attacks ina round.. ...couple that with elemental weapons you get alot of dice per hit!!

And...forgot what else i was saying so long story short. Ranged sneak attack spam!! ( friend was getting like 4 attacks a round at lvl 5 with a ninja i think all SA and had bane on all of his weapons

[John Longarrow]

Pirates?

OK, you won't be doing the normal sneaky stuff then. Concentrate on bluff, diplomacy, gather info. Add in the "Break in and steal stuff" skills like Intimidate, Open Lock, Search, Disable Device. Make sure you leave points for Profession(Accountant) and Appraise.

Your big job isn't to sneak up on things. Your job is to take care of those pesky physical barriers that keep your friends away from the stuff they want. You also do the intel to find out what's what and deal with fencing the loot you get.

For stats I'd go
Str 10
Dex 14 +2 = 16
Con 14 - 2 = 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14

When you need to fight, go with weapon finesse and, if you can swing it, TWF. Your one non-rogue dip will be at 5th when you take a single level in Sword Sage so you can get the shadow hand feat at 6th.

For combat you are a counter-flanker. Necromancer sends undead up to play, you move up to gank anyone trying to get behind or around the undead. At about the same time the undead start showing up you'll have Island of Blades so you can flank easily. Of course combat won't be your real worth. You keep the books so you know not only who owes whom what, but where all the money really is.

[GSQ|unionjack]

Ha I hadn't considered a quartermaster type angle, that's fantastic. That's sort of what I figured, i'm interested in the skillmonkey role, I also hadn't considered the implications of having lots of summons around, there should be plenty of flanked enemies to hit. Would that make a bow using rogue more viable than usual? Do I get my sneak if an enemy is flanked by people other than me, or is TWF sneak really so much better it isn't worth it?

The other build I had considered was a character interested in pirate lore and these sorts of larger than life magical pirate items (think Pirates of the Caribbean type things), rolling rogue and cloistered cleric (for lore and domains and skills) into seeker of the misty isle. I just don't want to step on the cleric's toes. I don't know enough about clerics to know if they would step too much on our existing war cleric's toes, or if playing 2 differently designed clerics would be a lot of fun.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... I wonder if Jaunter would be any good for this sort of game. Being able to hop around enemy ships would be interesting.

[John Longarrow]

Having a target flanked doesn't get you the sneak from a ranged attack. In your particular case being a good anti-living combatant using TWF can work wonders.

I'd suggest you talk to your evil cleric though. Make sure he grabs the corpse crafter feats from Libris Mortis. What they do for undead is priceless.

The kind of character I described isn't so much the cut purse or sneaky thief we all know and love. He's a professional criminal who's got connections, knows how to game the system, and is an asset in organized crime. He's the made man who can convince people doing what he says is in their best interest, or at least in the best interest of their loved ones. Only concern is if you play him right he's going to be party leader in a heart beat. In the words of Big Bad Voodoo Daddy he a "big time operatin, never ever hesitatin center VIP".

[GSQ|unionjack]

I'm thinking through my own idea and realizing even with Sacred Outlaw, Seeker of the misty isle would suck because you lose the progression of sneak attack from cleric, can anyone speak to that? If you prestige into a cleric prestige class, but it isn't technically "cleric," I assume you no longer get the benefir of Sacred Outlaw during those levels?

[stanprollyright]

For pirate flavor, I'd do Daring Outlaw TWF with keen rapier and a bunch of daggers for offhand and/or throwing. Make sure to take ranks in Swim, Use Rope, and Profession (Sailor).