Imp Natural Attack and Rend

[ghostflame5603]

So, someone in my group is playing a troll and they want to get Improved Natural Attack for their claws. We are wondering if their rend damage would also go up if the base claw damage went up. Since we can't find the formula for calculating rend damage, we have no way of figuring out if it would go up or not. Please help.

[TheCorsairMalac]

I'm not aware of any formula-based calculation for rend damage. This actually doesn't seem that uncommon. Other abilities such as swallow whole and trample attacks seem arbitrarily assigned as well.

I feel that improving the damage by one die increment is fair. (However, a rules-heavy interpretation might declare the rend a separate attack and require your player to take the feat for it separately.)

[Necroticplague]

Actually, there is a formula. it's in the definition of Rend itself, in the glossary.

Rend
If a creature with this special attack (extraordinary) hits with the specified natural attack, it latches onto the opponent's body and tears the flesh. A rend attack deals damage equal to the creature's natural attack + 1-1/2 times its Str modifier. The creature's descriptive text gives the exact amount.
So, using INA to improve your claws improve your rend is not only pretty common sense, it's flat-out what the rules say.

[NomGarret]

It also matches up with other references of gaining the rend ability, which refer to it the same way. Regardless, this is a point or two of damage per round, let them have it.

[ghostflame5603]

Ok, thanks!

[The Viscount]

Actually, there is a formula. it's in the definition of Rend itself, in the glossary.

So, using INA to improve your claws improve your rend is not only pretty common sense, it's flat-out what the rules say.

Rend indeed will increase because it's based off claw damage. However, despite the glossary entry, the normal rend damage monsters have is (2Xclaw)+1.5 strength.

[Necroticplague]

Rend indeed will increase because it's based off claw damage. However, despite the glossary entry, the normal rend damage monsters have is (2Xclaw)+1.5 strength.

That's because, for most monsters, the aforementioned 'specified natural weapon' is two claws.