Arcane Hierophant advice

[danielxcutter]

Note: Thought exercise.

Any advice for a Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge X? I already know about Theurgic Bond, Natural Bond, and Natural Spell, and early entry is out.

[eggynack]

Two things. First, assuming that's your actual build plan, ya gotta have something, probably mystic theurge, between the druid and hierophant levels. Otherwise you fail to meet the BAB prerequisites, even under partial BAB rules. Second, aberration forms are probably better than is typical, because they rely on the quality of casting, though, admittedly, your casting is actually somewhat worse due to the caster level loss. But, just generally, you're going to have a lot of spells/day, so the kind of action economy manipulation available through those forms is going to be nice.

[danielxcutter]

Two things. First, assuming that's your actual build plan, ya gotta have something, probably mystic theurge, between the druid and hierophant levels. Otherwise you fail to meet the BAB prerequisites, even under partial BAB rules.

Yeah, I just grouped the classes together rather than in order of taking them. When making an actual build it would be more like Wiz 3/Dru 3/MT 2/AH 10/MT 4. Or to be more specific, Wiz 1/Dru 1/Wiz 1/Dru 1/Wiz 1/Dru 1/MT 2/AH 10/MT 2. :smallamused: :smallbiggrin:


Second, aberration forms are probably better than is typical, because they rely on the quality of casting, though, admittedly, your casting is actually somewhat worse due to the caster level loss. But, just generally, you're going to have a lot of spells/day, so the kind of action economy manipulation available through those forms is going to be nice.

Hmmm, is there a Druid ACF that does that, or is it standard Polymorph cheese? And what aberration forms do you mean? I mean, Elans(no, not :elan:) are aberrations too, as are Synads.

Since I've got the attention of the local Druid expert, I may as well as ask this: I presume using spells from the Polymorph line on your hybrid animal companion/familar is one of the simplest yet most devastating tricks you can pull without using blatent rules-lawyering, immense amount of cheese, or relatively obscure supplements. Is that right?

[Nifft]

Hmmm, is there a Druid ACF that does that, or is it standard Polymorph cheese? And what aberration forms do you mean?

Neither, it's a feat.

You should read the (long but worth it) write-up in eggynack's signature.

[danielxcutter]

Neither, it's a feat.

You should read the (long but worth it) write-up in eggynack's signature.

Well, I did say that he was the local Druid expert... :smallamused:

[eggynack]

Hmmm, is there a Druid ACF that does that, or is it standard Polymorph cheese? And what aberration forms do you mean? I mean, Elans(no, not :elan:) are aberrations too, as are Synads.
As was noted, it's aberration wild shape from lords of madness. Nilshai form from unapproachable east is the one that doubles actions. I gots a whole list of them in the handbook, as also noted.


Since I've got the attention of the local Druid expert, I may as well as ask this: I presume using spells from the Polymorph line on your hybrid animal companion/familar is one of the simplest yet most devastating tricks you can pull without using blatent rules-lawyering, immense amount of cheese, or relatively obscure supplements. Is that right?
Sounds cool, though I haven't thought that much about possible combinations between the classes. Hence the relatively short answer. I mean, if we're being realistic here, you're mostly a wizard for the purposes of crazy. Like, if one could imagine a wizard spell comboing with a druid spell, then there'd probably already be a wizard spell right there doing basically the same thing as the druid spell you're using. Cause wizards have so many spells already. So, your potential "strictly in the union of the classes" cheese does likely fall in the category of wizard spells combined with druid wild shape and the companion. Hence wild shape form adding, whether it be aberrations, dragons, or even blink dog form.

Polymorph is fine along these lines, as a plan, but it's not as if you have a crazy lack of targets. What really makes them all that much more interesting than targeting a normal familiar, or a hired warrior, or yourself? It's not bad, but there doesn't seem to be that much marginal additional value. As a really simple approximation of value, there likely exist both physically stronger (to make the ultimate form better) and weaker (to give the new capabilities more additional marginal benefit) targets in the party, so whether your goal is a strong or weak target, the companion/familiar isn't necessarily going to be what you're after.

[danielxcutter]

Sounds cool, though I haven't thought that much about possible combinations between the classes. Hence the relatively short answer. I mean, if we're being realistic here, you're mostly a wizard for the purposes of crazy. Like, if one could imagine a wizard spell comboing with a druid spell, then there'd probably already be a wizard spell right there doing basically the same thing as the druid spell you're using. Cause wizards have so many spells already. So, your potential "strictly in the union of the classes" cheese does likely fall in the category of wizard spells combined with druid wild shape and the companion. Hence wild shape form adding, whether it be aberrations, dragons, or even blink dog form.

Hmm, I see. Oh, by the way, do you have any tactical advice? I think that using a metric buttload of summoning spells from both lists would have potential, especially since dual casters almost always have spell slots to spare.

[eggynack]

Hmm, I see. Oh, by the way, do you have any tactical advice? I think that using a metric buttload of summoning spells from both lists would have potential, especially since dual casters almost always have spell slots to spare.
Well, focusing on low action cost spells is nice. Friendly fire, primal instinct, celerity, heart of water, instant of power, really anything that has a below standard action casting time or hours/level or greater duration. It's good strategy in general, better when you have a pile of slots.

[danielxcutter]

Well, focusing on low action cost spells is nice. Friendly fire, primal instinct, celerity, heart of water, instant of power, really anything that has a below standard action casting time or hours/level or greater duration. It's good strategy in general, better when you have a pile of slots.

Oh I see, burn spell slots on buffs like there's no tomorrow, except that since you're a theurge-type caster, you'll have more spell slots than the entire party combined has Hit Die - in other words you will have plenty of spells left.