Campaign prep - How much is too much? And Horror help?

[Silus]

So only recently I've opted to start writing down an outline for a Pathfinder campaign that I'm looking at running but I'm concerned as to how much would be too much to hammer out and how much I should leave....fluid.

I suppose my main concern is that, at worst, it won't be so much a campaign but a story with the players just being dragged along, but at the same time I don't want to be floundering at the table trying to sort out what happens next.

Currently I've been writing down rather lengthy descriptions in a notebook, mostly things in the vein of "You're here, this is what you see, here's some dialogue the NPCs are saying at you, and your next quest objective is over in that direction". I've got an example of the first bit of the campaign notes if it would be helpful.

But yeah, is that kind of thing too much or does it seem like just enough?

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Second bit, the campaign above is going to have some heavy horror elements and I'd like some advice on techniques to use. I've already got the music down (using a combination of the Fallen London and Sunless Sea OSTs and the Fragment CD by Musica Cthulhiana) and I've already got the mood lighting bit down, but there's some other things that I've read about that I'd like some vets to weigh in on:

1) "Stolen rolls". Have the players write down their Perception bonuses for the DM and have the DM roll Perception for them at random times. Or just roll and ask the player their Perception score. Bonus points for an ambiguous non-answer if questioned.

2) Mystery roll. Have a player make a d20 roll and make a show of noting the result. If asked, tell the player to not worry about it. Best used on distracted players.

3) Sidebars. Pulling a player aside and either A) Telling them something legit creepy/unsettling that their character has noticed or become aware of (You find a half-dozen half-eaten rats in your bag, wedged into your sleeping roll), B) Something rather mundane that does not SEEM to be bad/scary/spoopy but makes the player wonder why you pulled them away for something that probably doesn't matter (mind games on the player), or C) pull them aside and just ask them how their day was, ask how you're doing with the game, etc. basically nothing about the game and making the players at the table (not having the 1-on-1) wonder just what you're talking about.

4) Notes. Similar to sidebars though takes some prep. Kind of like interrupts. Like players A, C, and D are talking about where to go, and you pass player B a note saying that they see something freaky move through the intersection down the hall, just outside of of the torchlight.

5) Memory manipulation. Not something I read but an idea I had been kicking around. Party goes into a ruin and after an unusually short amount of time make it to the "end". They turn back, figuring they've cleared it all, only to hit an intersection or room they don't remember passing through. And their supplies seem...less than there should be. And they'll hit stretches of ruin that they remember but it's all out of sorts but in a weird sort of linear path. Like "You've definitely been through here but it's weird that you don't remember like 3/4 of it".

6) Countdown timer and unneeded initiative. Players enter a room and you inform them to roll initiative. But, as far as they can tell, there's nothing there. But, if there's initiative, there's got to be SOMETHING to fight right? Going along with this, start a tally or set a countdown timer with vague implications. Basically make it so the players get worried/scared that SOMETHING is coming (For those that listen to Wolf 359, I cite The Empty Man).

7) Splitting the party. While difficult on the DM, splitting the party might have some benefit for a horror themed game.

8) No safe place to rest. You're getting hunted by Jason Voorhees, the wizard ain't got time for his 8 hours of rest to get spells back. Better make them count. Run the party ragged and stretch resources to enhance tension.

9) OOC, substantial XP bonuses for....getting into the game. Like getting invested and actually treating the game with the...respect (?) that a horror game deserves. Electronics away, side conversations to a minimum, you're not sitting at a table, you're trying to escape faceless horrors that are stalking you through an old dwarven prison. Act like it.

[Freed]

1. If asked why you rolled perception, say that you didn't, make a roll, and ask for their sense motive in real life.

[Regwon]

Horror games mark a departure from regular d&d, because for a true sense of horror you need to instil a sense of powerlessness in the character. They players need to think that very bad things are waiting for them around every corner, and there isnt anything they can do about it.

Building tension through your actions as a DM at the table is a good start, but you also need to include narrative elements to really unsettle your players. Use any horror tropes from film and literature you like, but try to avoid cliches, they ruin the versimilitude. Creepy old woman that lives in a small hut on the edge of the forest? Great. Witch that flies around on a broomstick cackling? Not so much. The former leads to many more quesions than that latter, and the unknown makes people uneasy, which is what youre trying to do.

Avoid combat as much as you can. The mindset of "if it bleeds, we can kill it" very much applies, and as soon as people start rolling attack, the tension evaporates. The exceptions to this are if the characters are restricted in what they can do, if a ghost has possessed a child they are trying to save for instance; or if they are so completely outclassed that the fear of death matters. Here, the latter is difficult to get right, as it requires players that care enough about their characters to want to keep them alive, and requires you to be a good enough DM to make it obvious they cant win without causing a TPK.

There is a great little adventure called Death Frost Doom that is creepy has hell, that you should check out, and watch some films like The Witch and Insidious. Also the ExtraCredits youtube channel (nominally about video game design) has some really great videos on getting horror right.

Having said all that, I like creepy atmospheric horror. If you prefer the "lets go hunting werewolves" then you can pretty much ignore everything I've said, silver up some axes, and get to choppin'.

[Silus]

Horror games mark a departure from regular d&d, because for a true sense of horror you need to instil a sense of powerlessness in the character. They players need to think that very bad things are waiting for them around every corner, and there isnt anything they can do about it.

Building tension through your actions as a DM at the table is a good start, but you also need to include narrative elements to really unsettle your players. Use any horror tropes from film and literature you like, but try to avoid cliches, they ruin the versimilitude. Creepy old woman that lives in a small hut on the edge of the forest? Great. Witch that flies around on a broomstick cackling? Not so much. The former leads to many more quesions than that latter, and the unknown makes people uneasy, which is what youre trying to do.

Avoid combat as much as you can. The mindset of "if it bleeds, we can kill it" very much applies, and as soon as people start rolling attack, the tension evaporates. The exceptions to this are if the characters are restricted in what they can do, if a ghost has possessed a child they are trying to save for instance; or if they are so completely outclassed that the fear of death matters. Here, the latter is difficult to get right, as it requires players that care enough about their characters to want to keep them alive, and requires you to be a good enough DM to make it obvious they cant win without causing a TPK.

There is a great little adventure called Death Frost Doom that is creepy has hell, that you should check out, and watch some films like The Witch and Insidious. Also the ExtraCredits youtube channel (nominally about video game design) has some really great videos on getting horror right.

Having said all that, I like creepy atmospheric horror. If you prefer the "lets go hunting werewolves" then you can pretty much ignore everything I've said, silver up some axes, and get to choppin'.

Thoughts on a combat with a supposed "unique" monster that taxes the players heavily (ability damage, only vulnerable to certain things, etc.) and, as the fight ends and the players think they've killed the big bad monster, it's revealed that there are actually more than just the one?

The idea I had was throwing a Slender Man type creature at the players and have it stalk them for about the first 2/3-3/4 of the campaign and making it juuuuust out of sight/range for the majority of the time. Eventually, a showdown. The players kill the monster and they start to celebrate. Then the fog lifts enough that they can make out very familiar shapes watching them off in the distance.

[RazorChain]

First off, why are you trying to utilize horror elements? Does it tie into the theme of the campaign?


Horror is is about suspense, fear of the unknown and the feeling of being powerless. This means that cheap dice roll aren't going to work in the long run. Rolling perception blindly not knowing the target number is standard in many games or even the Game master rolling for the players.

Assuming that the players talk together pulling them aside isn't going to accomplish much. Cheap parlor tricks aren't going to work, they aren't going to do the trick on their own.


You need a good horror plot, descriptive scenes, set the mood and have the players keep in character. Running a whole horror campaign can be tricky as the players will get used to things, if you are planning a mini campaign then that is easier or even just having a horror adventure in between the usual adventures.


As for finding out there are more tough monsters out there...well that is just a standard D&D game where the PC's are working their way up the food chain.

Why is the Slender man stalking them?

[Knaight]

Currently I've been writing down rather lengthy descriptions in a notebook, mostly things in the vein of "You're here, this is what you see, here's some dialogue the NPCs are saying at you, and your next quest objective is over in that direction". I've got an example of the first bit of the campaign notes if it would be helpful.

This seems a bit excessive. Prepping event chains in general is the sort of thing you don't want to do too much of - PCs won't follow them forever, and the longer they are the more of that prep is wasted. Actually working out exact dialog just makes it sound canned; there's a reason that scripted dialog generally involves scripting it for both sides of a conversation.

[Silus]

First off, why are you trying to utilize horror elements? Does it tie into the theme of the campaign?


Horror is is about suspense, fear of the unknown and the feeling of being powerless. This means that cheap dice roll aren't going to work in the long run. Rolling perception blindly not knowing the target number is standard in many games or even the Game master rolling for the players.

Assuming that the players talk together pulling them aside isn't going to accomplish much. Cheap parlor tricks aren't going to work, they aren't going to do the trick on their own.

You need a good horror plot, descriptive scenes, set the mood and have the players keep in character. Running a whole horror campaign can be tricky as the players will get used to things, if you are planning a mini campaign then that is easier or even just having a horror adventure in between the usual adventures.

As for finding out there are more tough monsters out there...well that is just a standard D&D game where the PC's are working their way up the food chain.

Why is the Slender man stalking them?

Well not Slender Man himself, but...

In the interest of time, here's a writeup (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479434-Watching-you-from-between-the-pines-A-Horror-quot-module-quot) for the campaign I did a while back. Short version is that the Slender Man type monsters have always been in the area and serve a higher, more malevolent power.

Depending on the group, I can usually whip up horror stuff on the fly, but what I'm trying to do is write out descriptions and such that I'll be using ahead of time. Giving me a chance to be more descriptive and verbose by getting the lines down instead of struggling to come up with some on the spot.


This seems a bit excessive. Prepping event chains in general is the sort of thing you don't want to do too much of - PCs won't follow them forever, and the longer they are the more of that prep is wasted. Actually working out exact dialog just makes it sound canned; there's a reason that scripted dialog generally involves scripting it for both sides of a conversation.

What I mostly have is the intro, describing it as the ship the party is on comes into port and all the whatnot that entails, along with jotting down likely questions certain NPCs would be asked, along with descriptions of key areas (like the palace or a tavern the party will be heading to or such like that).

[Corsair14]

Im the other way around, I plan heavily far into the future of the campaign. Now I do leave room to move and side quests but my campaigns are not sand boxes. Sand boxes lack the detail you can make as DMs. To me a campaign is a story and the characters are the protagonists of that story. I will prod them along and give them some sense of freedom that doesn't really exist. But then again, seeing as my first adventure for the current campaign brought them through levels 1-3 had two dungeons, a massive outdoor fight scene with wolf riding goblins in a Parthinian circle, and took over a month in real time to get through(they finally finished last night after starting in late October) once they commit to something they are going to be occupied for a very long time.

That said, the higher they get the more options open up to them and more side quests are available if they so choose to take them. Everything from the actual quest(evolving the Mud Sorcerer dungeon into an entire campaign) to rumors of a new War of the Lance taking off(its Dragonlance-ish) as they are based out of a large town on the border and travel back and forth. So its a little more freedom but they are still prodded and poked into certain directions that I can have fairly detailed.

As for the horror thing, I tend to aim for dark campaigns and go with more vicious creatures. I dig into the old Ravenloft monster manuals, Tome of Terrors, Iron Kingdom campaign and other old monster books to come up with suitable scary monsters for them to encounter often or occasionally. Right now I am trying to work out a short adventure featuring a Red Widow(RL) in their town especially as the barbarian seems to like to frequent ladies of the night until he runs out of money(great money sink by the way) and then has to go adventuring for more.

I would love to be able to do the longer term scary thing and going to start attempting it with a more stand out villain they will meet shortly, but even then I am not really sure how to work it either. Keeping people awake at night with noises while they are camping. Odd run ins with horrific monsters and scenes. I didn't emphasize the dark enough in my first adventure so I will try harder in the next one.

I think a horror campaign requires much more detailed planning and descriptive narrative which means a lot of prior planning. I suppose some people are good enough to do it off the cuff, but most including me are not.