Looking for advice with Warlock/Rogue Multiclass

[Dr. Cliché]

Doing a campaign soon, and I'd like to play a Tiefling Warlock/Rogue (we'll be lv7).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice with this build:
1) First off, is this actually a worthwhile combination, or would I be better off just going with one or the other?
2) Do you think it's better to have warlock or rogue as my main class? And, how many levels should I have of the other class?
3) I'll probably go for a Fiend warlock (for reasons of flavour), but which rogue archetype would be best? I don't think that swashbuckler or such fit the flavour, so we'll be sticking to the 3 in the PHB.
4) Assuming I take enough warlock levels to get it, which Pact Boon do you think is best?

And, of course, any other advice you can give me relating to this build would be most welcome. :smallsmile:

[Gignere]

Doing a campaign soon, and I'd like to play a Tiefling Warlock/Rogue (we'll be lv7).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice with this build:
1) First off, is this actually a worthwhile combination, or would I be better off just going with one or the other?
2) Do you think it's better to have warlock or rogue as my main class? And, how many levels should I have of the other class?
3) I'll probably go for a Fiend warlock (for reasons of flavour), but which rogue archetype would be best? I don't think that swashbuckler or such fit the flavour, so we'll be sticking to the 3 in the PHB.
4) Assuming I take enough warlock levels to get it, which Pact Boon do you think is best?

And, of course, any other advice you can give me relating to this build would be most welcome. :smallsmile:

I am working on a similar multi class build myself. At level 7 I would probably recommend a 2 R / 5 W split, but take all rogue levels after that or get to level 8 lock. If you are restricted to PHB I think Arcane Trickster is the best subclass. Giving you more spell slots and spells known to play with (shield or mage armor). I feel the tome path is the best for this multi class as gaining access to additional cantrips like guidance, thorn whip, etc., along with rituals can add a lot of power and versatility.

I recommend a minimum 5 levels of lock just to get counterspell, since this build's signature is to abuse darkness and devil sight. You need to protect the darkness from getting dispelled.

[Sir cryosin]

What are you looking to accomplish with this build?

[gfishfunk]

- Bladelock gives you a magic weapon that you can never lose and two attacks at level 5.
- The other versions can give you a familiar, which you can use to activate sneak attack in combat. In my experience, that does not help a lot because other PCs tend to activate it for you. familiars can give the aid other action in combat to give you advantage, but then get targeted by the DM. Better to go bladelock.
- Arcane Trickster is the best Rogue build, imo, because the benefits of other subclasses are so minor in comparison. If you go this route, be a bladelock.

[HoodedHero007]

It depends, if you're in it for the expertise, take a 1 drop and don't look back. If you're looking for the other stuff take the advice of the first reply

[MrStabby]

This is a great combination for some things but you need to decide what you want from the class.

Are you melee or ranged?

Melee can get bladelock and thirsting blade for two attacks which is a good start to a melee class - this can be backed up by the spell slots/abilities of the warlock. Or, you can dip a couple of levels for spells and invocations.

Rogue can go deep - for lots of sneak attack damage or just a dip.

The fact that both can be dipped even means you can put another class in the mix should you need.


Rogue 2 can be good for a dip. I like it for expertise and cunning action. Expertise lets you pick athletics to shove people prone or away from you and cunning action lets you get into the ideal range for combat very quickly. If I were to dip rogue 2 then I would be looking (probably) at a polearm master build.

Warlock 2 gets you devils sight and a powerful cantrip attack. This is useful for multiclassing as it lets you remain quite useful whist pulling together your concept. Without this you would be falling behind a lot as players get second attacks at level 5 etc.. The problem is that you are not likely to have peak charisma.

Rogue 3 can get you arcane trickster. Lots more choice of spells here. This gets interesting if you are going to reach higher levels as it can get you the shield spell making you a superb tank if you couple it with other martial classes. AT 3, Warlock 2, Fighter 5 as a level 10 character can spam shield all day, have solid hitpoints, heavy armour and can do competitive melee damage as well as filling a bit of the control role with shoving people about (expertise+ hex means you can even get away with dumping strength and still win athletics contests).



The other way to take the class is to focus on eldritch blast as your damage. A couple of levels in rogue will help you hide to get advantage on attacks which will boost EB a bit as well as keeping you out of trouble.


What role do you want to play? What features do you particularly want to use?

[MrFahrenheit]

Gonna echo the others here: rogue 2 is pretty much a safe bet, assuming you don't want further MCing. I'm not convinced that AT is really worth the cost in levels, especially if you go chainlock.

[gfishfunk]

Gonna echo the others here: rogue 2 is pretty much a safe bet, assuming you don't want further MCing. I'm not convinced that AT is really worth the cost in levels, especially if you go chainlock.

AT is a negligible benefit. The real deal is your other rogue stuff, especially sneak attack damage. Hitting Rogue 3 is worth it just for the 2d6.

I would build 5 Bladelock (Fiend) / 2 Rogue, +1 Rogue at 8, and then push warlock.

[Dr. Cliché]

Thanks for the advice so far, chaps. :smallsmile:


What role do you want to play? What features do you particularly want to use?

Well, my character is intended as a sneaky, criminal type (probably leaning towards a thief or assassin, now that I think about it). The rogue/warlock thing was meant to be a combination of tricks and such learned in back alleys and of his fiendish heritage.

- In terms of role: scout, thief, maybe deception guy (if I pick Mask of Many Faces or use disguise kits).

- In terms of features, I was hoping to capitalise on the rogue's skill list and Expertise to give my a nice range of thief-y skills (as well as cunning action). Warlock was for both flavour and spells (both utility and the ever-useful Eldritch Blast).

- In terms of combat, I'm really not sure. I generally prefer range to melee (especially when I'm not playing a fighter-type class). However, if I use Eldritch blast then I'm missing out on sneak attack (also, I'm wondering if my character would naturally lean towards a more knife-y attitude). Honest answer is that I really don't know. Part of my making this thread was to look for suggestions in this regard.

[MrFahrenheit]

Thanks for the advice so far, chaps. :smallsmile:



Well, my character is intended as a sneaky, criminal type (probably leaning towards a thief or assassin, now that I think about it). The rogue/warlock thing was meant to be a combination of tricks and such learned in back alleys and of his fiendish heritage.

- In terms of role: scout, thief, maybe deception guy (if I pick Mask of Many Faces or use disguise kits).

- In terms of features, I was hoping to capitalise on the rogue's skill list and Expertise to give my a nice range of thief-y skills (as well as cunning action). Warlock was for both flavour and spells (both utility and the ever-useful Eldritch Blast).

- In terms of combat, I'm really not sure. I generally prefer range to melee (especially when I'm not playing a fighter-type class). However, if I use Eldritch blast then I'm missing out on sneak attack (also, I'm wondering if my character would naturally lean towards a more knife-y attitude). Honest answer is that I really don't know. Part of my making this thread was to look for suggestions in this regard.

Sounds like you should really go for thief with charisma as a secondary stat. Otherwise dip up to two levels in rogue (or better yet, start with two levels as a previous poster mentioned), gen go the rest warlock if EB will be your primary damage source.

[DivisibleByZero]

- Bladelock gives you a magic weapon that you can never lose and two attacks at level 5.
- The other versions can give you a familiar, which you can use to activate sneak attack in combat. In my experience, that does not help a lot because other PCs tend to activate it for you. familiars can give the aid other action in combat to give you advantage, but then get targeted by the DM. Better to go bladelock.
- Arcane Trickster is the best Rogue build, imo, because the benefits of other subclasses are so minor in comparison. If you go this route, be a bladelock.

I'm just here to echo these sentiments. I agree with all of it.
Personally I'd go for a goal of AT13/Bladelock 7 (but I'm a rogue fan, so there is a little bit of bias here), getting r3 and w5 as fast as possible, saving the final two lock levels for later.

[MrStabby]

If you are starting at level 7 then there are a few options I would want to throw on the table.

First of all the oddball:

Fighter 5, Rogue 1, Warlock 1.

You can be a sneaky dex based fighter with expertise in stealth and athletics. Knocking people over and otherwise fighting dirty with sneak attack. You only get 1 sneak attack die but more attacks to land it on. You do get a fighting style though - probably dueling (+2 damage on each of your 2 attacks is only slightly begind the 2 extra sneek attack dice in damage anyway). If you go battlemaster you get manoeuvres which can feel a lot like a tricksy fighter. Warlock gives you some utility casting and a nice lot of RP potential. As you level up one more of rogue will give you cunning action and one more of warlock will give you invocations and more spell slots.

Rogue 5, Warlock 2
I would push for arcane trickster here and play as a tank. Use your free school slot for shield or absorb elements - between this and using your reaction to take half damage you can be quite resilient. Fiend patron temp HP last a lot longer when you take half damage from attacks. Maybe a bit less aligned to what you are aiming for though.

Alternatively you could go for the same mix but take assassin instead - use invisibility to supplement your stealth or spider climb to augment athletics and lay some sweet ambushes. It may depend on your party makeup.

Warlock 5, Rogue 2
You can get your two attacks, you get level 3 spells any you get all the nice mobility and versatility of cunning action. Whilst this might be closest to what you are looking for it does most closely invite the comparison with a single classed warlock so you will need to find spells and manoeuvres and tricks that the single classed warlock couldn't. There are some pretty sweet level 4 spells that your 'lock wouldn't be getting for the 2 levels in rogue.

[Dr. Cliché]

Rogue 5, Warlock 2
I would push for arcane trickster here and play as a tank. Use your free school slot for shield or absorb elements - between this and using your reaction to take half damage you can be quite resilient. Fiend patron temp HP last a lot longer when you take half damage from attacks. Maybe a bit less aligned to what you are aiming for though.

Alternatively you could go for the same mix but take assassin instead - use invisibility to supplement your stealth or spider climb to augment athletics and lay some sweet ambushes. It may depend on your party makeup.


In terms of the latter option, wouldn't I need at least 3 levels of Warlock to use Invisibility?



Warlock 5, Rogue 2
You can get your two attacks, you get level 3 spells any you get all the nice mobility and versatility of cunning action. Whilst this might be closest to what you are looking for it does most closely invite the comparison with a single classed warlock so you will need to find spells and manoeuvres and tricks that the single classed warlock couldn't. There are some pretty sweet level 4 spells that your 'lock wouldn't be getting for the 2 levels in rogue.

Yeah, this is part of the reason why I was wondering if I should just go pure Warlock.

[Asmotherion]

Doing a campaign soon, and I'd like to play a Tiefling Warlock/Rogue (we'll be lv7).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice with this build:
1) First off, is this actually a worthwhile combination, or would I be better off just going with one or the other?
2) Do you think it's better to have warlock or rogue as my main class? And, how many levels should I have of the other class?
3) I'll probably go for a Fiend warlock (for reasons of flavour), but which rogue archetype would be best? I don't think that swashbuckler or such fit the flavour, so we'll be sticking to the 3 in the PHB.
4) Assuming I take enough warlock levels to get it, which Pact Boon do you think is best?

And, of course, any other advice you can give me relating to this build would be most welcome. :smallsmile:

Had an Assasin of Asmodeus PC who was exactly this. Campain went till level 20.

1) It is definitelly worthwile. I had a lot of fun playing this build, and it can give a lot of options. You have a set of 4 invocations that work best. Any combination of those is good, but you'll probably take only 2-3 Invocations, so choose witch one(s) you are going to discard.
A) Mask of Many Faces, combined with the Friends cantrip and investing one of your experties in persuation makes you the best candidate to be "the face" of your group. Add guidance to that, and with the right RP be ready to convince Red Dragons and Pit Fiends to give to Charity.
B) Devil's Sight gives you a superior Darkvision, were you can see even in magical darkness. This can guarantee you'll land your sneak attack in combat. Also, wile you have other mechanics to do that, this is an amazing fluf option, as you literally become a murderous crawling glob of darkness.
C&D) You may also invest in the standard Eldritch Blast Invocations, get Hex, and effectivelly be able to moonlight as a Blaster when needed. Wile the other options seem more Rogue-Oriented, there are those who want to at least be able to Eldritch Blast when they want (including me), and it's definitelly a viable option. You won't be a Sorcelock, but your Eldritch Blasts will be hitting as hard as a Regular Full Warlock. Take these options if you want to focus more on the fact of being a Warlock, and less in taking the class just for support and mechanics.

2) Since the Warlock gives it's most valuable gifts early on, wile the rogue's sneack attack gives them slowly, over investment, I'd suggest to first take your Warlock levels, and then, the rest rogue. The "sweet points" in Warlock Dipping are:
A) Level 2, you get 2 Invocations, Eldritch Blast, Hex, 1 more cantrip, 2 more spells (I suggest Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke), and 2 Lv1 spell slots.
B) All the above, + your spell slots are now 2nd level, you learn one more spell, and you choose a Pact Boon. I'll analyse pact boons in paragraph 4.
C) If you absolutely can't decide which 2 Invocations you want, and NEED at least 1 more, wile you're ok with downgradeing you Sneak Attack's power by 3d6 (witch is viable latter, but right now your sneak attack is non impressive to say the least.) you can go Warlock 5 for 1 more invocation, upgrade your spell slots to 3rd level, have a total of 6 spells known, and learn an extra cantrip. Wile a viable option, it comes online way latter, and at level 7 your sneak attack is merelly doing 1d6 more than a regular attack. To be taken only as a last solution, and possibly latter in game. This would be progressing as Warlock 3/Rogue 4 or Warlock 2 Rogue 5 for now, and adding more Warlock Levels latter in Game.

3) The best for this build IMO, is Arcane Trickster. You have a multitude of mechanics to ensure you land a Sneak Attack, and spells to make sure you can melee without getting killed. As an AT focus on self-buffs, such as Blink, Mirror Image, Blur, Haste etc. As a warlock, make sure to get a SCAG cantrip, which works perfectly with your sneak attack, as long as you're using a finesse weapon (usually a rapier), to add 1-3 d8 to you standard hits. I'd favor booming blade over green-flame, as you get mechanics to sneak attack without being hidden, wile at the same time there is a probability for secondary dammage. It also fits best in fluff, as you are literally a Mage-Rogue.

4) Wile Pact of the Tome is generally the best option, here I'll favor Pact of the Chain. Not only you get a fammiliar, to use the help action to guarantee you hit with sneack attack, you get an invisible one too. With a 1 level investment, you cover what you otherwise would invest a feat or a level+invocation to have, and in an inferior version too. Also, if your Dm allows flanking optional rulling, you're in even a better possition. Your ability to use Mage hand for distracting opponents will eventually come, but that's a lot latter, and why leave for tomorrow what you can do today? Finally, fluff-wise, what says "Fiend Warlock" better, than an Imp on your shoulder? That said, if you want more cantrips, and a cherry pick, including the mentioned guidance, feel free to take pact of the tome, and invest one of your invocations in Book of Ancient Secrets.

[MrStabby]

A) Level 2, you get 2 Invocations, Eldritch Blast, Hex, 1 more cantrip, 2 more spells (I suggest Armor of Agathys and Hellish Rebuke), and 2 Lv1 spell slots.

Not sure I would agree with these spell choices.

Hellish rebuke - you already have a reaction you can use when hit by an attack, it seems like there is a bit too much overlap here. Hellish rebuke is good, but mainly becuase it is hard to use those reactions.

AoA - another great spell but you are never going to go to high levels and it will conflict with the OPs desire to go fiend pact and the temp HP there.

[Dr. Cliché]

Oh, by the way, do you guys think it's worth trading Infernal Legacy for wings? (Using the variant Tiefling rules in SCAG)

[tieren]

Well, my character is intended as a sneaky, criminal type (probably leaning towards a thief or assassin, now that I think about it). The rogue/warlock thing was meant to be a combination of tricks and such learned in back alleys and of his fiendish heritage.

- In terms of role: scout, thief, maybe deception guy (if I pick Mask of Many Faces or use disguise kits).

- In terms of features, I was hoping to capitalise on the rogue's skill list and Expertise to give my a nice range of thief-y skills (as well as cunning action). Warlock was for both flavour and spells (both utility and the ever-useful Eldritch Blast).



I really like where you are headed with this and recommend you focus on the theme of the character more than the mechanics (unless min/maxing is your thing).

Go with Warlock and rogue multiclass, look for the level 9 assassin feature to combine with mask of many faces invocation and a expertise in the face skills.

Use darkness and devils sight for the inky blob of back alley death. Go chain pact for the imp familiar, just for the coolness. Use ascendant step from invocation instead of second story work from thief. Pick up dimension door.

I would aim at an Assassin 9/Fiend Lock 11 final build and have a ton of fun with it.

[Finieous]

Yeah, this is part of the reason why I was wondering if I should just go pure Warlock.


Yeah, as an option, a criminal or urchin half-elf warlock could start with six skill proficiencies and pick up Deception and Persuasion with an invocation, for a total of eight. If you go tome, you can take guidance to assist your thievery in out-of-combat situations, and then at 6th level you'll get Dark One's Own Luck for an extra d10 on an ability check (or save) once per short rest. You've got shillelagh and melee cantrips when you feel like hitting someone with your boomstick instead of firing off eldritch blast. It's kind of fun to hit a melee target with booming blade then move away. If they hit with their AoO, hellish rebuke. If they pursue, booming blade pops. When they die, you get temp hit points. :smallbiggrin:

Carefully chosen class abilities, cantrips, invocations and rituals can give your single-class warlock a lot of roguish capabilities and utility. He'll just go about it a different way.

[Asmotherion]

Not sure I would agree with these spell choices.

Hellish rebuke - you already have a reaction you can use when hit by an attack, it seems like there is a bit too much overlap here. Hellish rebuke is good, but mainly becuase it is hard to use those reactions.

AoA - another great spell but you are never going to go to high levels and it will conflict with the OPs desire to go fiend pact and the temp HP there.

About Hellish Rebuke: You have a point here... It's a waste of spell slot... I just listed it as I have it in my default "Multiclass Warlock Picks" without really thinking too much about it. :P

About Armor of Agathys: I could be wrong, but the way I read it, the spell does not end even if the Temporary HP are over, it just does not function if you don't have temporary HP at the moment. Temporary HP rules say that you can chose to gain new HP or keep your old temporary HP (if I remember correctly). In other words, if you have a way to constantly renew your Temporary HP, such as the Fiend Pact ability, you can have the AoA work for the full duration.


Oh, by the way, do you guys think it's worth trading Infernal Legacy for wings? (Using the variant Tiefling rules in SCAG)

Definitelly! It might not contribute to your character mechanics-wise, but flyght in this edition is so limited that, if you can get it, it's better to do so. You can also prevent too bulky oponents from being melee with you, by using your disengege action to fly out of reach after you deliver your sneak attack. Also, the cool factor; You are a Winged Fiend-like being, wielding fiend-like power, and (possibly) have an imp on your shoulder. You are the closest thing possible to a PC Devil.

[Dr. Cliché]

Yeah, as an option, a criminal or urchin half-elf warlock could start with six skill proficiencies and pick up Deception and Persuasion with an invocation, for a total of eight.

Thanks, but the 'Tiefling' part is non-negotiable. :smallwink:


I really like where you are headed with this and recommend you focus on the theme of the character more than the mechanics (unless min/maxing is your thing).

Go with Warlock and rogue multiclass, look for the level 9 assassin feature to combine with mask of many faces invocation and a expertise in the face skills.

Use darkness and devils sight for the inky blob of back alley death. Go chain pact for the imp familiar, just for the coolness. Use ascendant step from invocation instead of second story work from thief. Pick up dimension door.

I would aim at an Assassin 9/Fiend Lock 11 final build and have a ton of fun with it.

As a question, is it a good idea to end up with 2 mid-level classes? I'm just a bit worried about missing out on the high-level abilities of both.

Also, if I did do this, what split would you recommend to start with?


Definitelly! It might not contribute to your character mechanics-wise, but flyght in this edition is so limited that, if you can get it, it's better to do so. You can also prevent too bulky oponents from being melee with you, by using your disengege action to fly out of reach after you deliver your sneak attack. Also, the cool factor; You are a Winged Fiend-like being, wielding fiend-like power, and (possibly) have an imp on your shoulder. You are the closest thing possible to a PC Devil.

Yeah, that was my thought as well. Also just a cool concept in general.

[MrStabby]

As a question, is it a good idea to end up with 2 mid-level classes? I'm just a bit worried about missing out on the high-level abilities of both.

Also, if I did do this, what split would you recommend to start with?



Generally it isn't great to have an even split between classes - even if the top level abilities are not great you will pass some good ones on the way. In addition the first few levels of a class tend to try and establish it's identity so there is some good stuff there to cherry pick. Furthermore, a lot of classes have abilities that don't stack - like extra attack. So often, if you only want to go to a certain mid-level rank in a given class, it is better to dip 2-3 levels in two other classes than to take 5 in a second class.

However... look at each case as it is. There are some circumstances where a substantial investment pays off. Usually you go to level 5 in one class then switch. Rogue is great for this (possibly in fact the only class that really is). It is a martial class (spellcasters sacrifice higher level spells for an MC which is a very steep cost) but it's level 5 big ability isn't an extra attack. If you saw yourself going to higher levels this could work. Bladelock level 5 invocation and the rogue damage avoidance (again an honourable mention to the fiend temp HP) would give you a solid fighter with a lot of utility in one package.

[gfishfunk]

My thoughts against tomelock and chainlock:
- if you even have one melee PC, you don't need a familiar. They are nice, just not necessary. The benefit is not as big as you think. An invisible scout is actually the best part of you go chainlock.
- The best part of Tomelock is shillelagh, hands down. It does not work with rogue because you are not combining sneak attack damage with the quarterstaff.
- Tomelock cantrips are neat but niché. The damage ones do not combine with sneak attack, and other casters will probably have the ones you would want. Not definite, but a good guess.
Tomelock: great for a general warlock build because out can do a little of everything. Bad to multiclass rogue, though.
Chainlock: decent for a solo campaign or a scout. Works wonders on a vacuum. In an actual campaign, it tends to be fluff.

[Arial Black]

Armour of agathys ends when the temp hit points from that spell are gone, whether you have been damaged until they went or because you chose to take another set of THP to replace the few left from AofA.

[Giant2005]

It can work.
There is value in taking a dip in Warlock as a Rogue in order to get your hands on SCAG cantrips without going AT (or using a feat/racial ability).
There is also value in taking a large dip (5 levels) in Rogue as a Warlock to get your hands on Uncanny Dodge in order to make your Armor of Agathys stronger.

However, the greatest combat-related strengths of both classes (EB and Sneak Attack) are mutually exclusive.

That is why the best advice regarding a Warlock/Rogue multiclass is adding 7 levels of EK to the mix. With EK involved, the greatest strengths of both classes work together to become a sum greater than its parts.
Warlock 2/EK 7/Rogue X should be what every Rogue/Warlock build strives for (EB + Heavy Crossbow wielding). It is a top tier damage dealer, carries a great deal of utility, gets its hands on the same number of ASIs as a pure class (or even an extra one if you take an extra level of EK), and it progresses far more linearly than even pure classes do.

[djreynolds]

Doing a campaign soon, and I'd like to play a Tiefling Warlock/Rogue (we'll be lv7).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice with this build:
1) First off, is this actually a worthwhile combination, or would I be better off just going with one or the other?
2) Do you think it's better to have warlock or rogue as my main class? And, how many levels should I have of the other class?
3) I'll probably go for a Fiend warlock (for reasons of flavour), but which rogue archetype would be best? I don't think that swashbuckler or such fit the flavour, so we'll be sticking to the 3 in the PHB.
4) Assuming I take enough warlock levels to get it, which Pact Boon do you think is best?

And, of course, any other advice you can give me relating to this build would be most welcome. :smallsmile:

Are you saying all these evil types in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" are not evil enough?

Swashbuckler gives so much for 3 level, fancy footwork, rakish audacity, charisma to initiative.... not too shabby.

Arcane trickster lands you the shield spell, for 1 of you initial 3.

[Dr. Cliché]

Are you saying all these evil types in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" are not evil enough?

???



Swashbuckler gives so much for 3 level, fancy footwork, rakish audacity, charisma to initiative.... not too shabby.

I didn't say that swashbuckler wasn't good, merely that it didn't fit the theme. I simply don't imagine my character being the sort who ponces about with a rapier and fancy footwork. He is the sort who sneaks into someone's house while they're asleep and slits their throat.

[ST By Night]

I don't know, I've never really cared for multiclass, myself. Everyone should just be pure.

[BW022]

1) First off, is this actually a worthwhile combination, or would I be better off just going with one or the other?


Any build you have fun with is fine. I've seen the build in one game. IMO, it isn't optimal. The main issue is that both classes have different approaches to damage. Rogues rely on weapons to gain sneak attack while warlocks mainly use eldritch blast and spells (primarily hex). Similar with defensive abilities. Rogues rely on bonus action disengage and uncanny dodge, warlocks spells and pact abilities. Levels in one class mean falling behind in another. Only having a few low level abilities from one class is probably not that useful.



2) Do you think it's better to have warlock or rogue as my main class? And, how many levels should I have of the other class?


Either is fine. However, the above comes in.

A rogue/1 warlock/x gives skills, expertise, and 1d6 sneak attack. Presumably you go for a bladelock such that at warlock/5 you'll get multiple attacks and some sneak attack. However, you are still pretty weak in melee (limited armor, hit points, and spells). So, rogue/2 it temping to get disengage and hit as bonus actions. Now, you don't get multiple attacks until 7th-level, and you've had multiple eldritch blasts since 5th. You are also giving up higher level spells to use. You don't get mirror image until 5th now. And rogue/3 becomes tempting as it means more sneak attack and more spell slots (arcane trickster). If are only going to eldritch blast, you are better without the level of rogue and gain the skills from background and/or race.

A warlock/1 rogue/x gives eldritch blast and one spell slot per short rest. Almost certain you want warlock/2 for two slots and the evocations (likely devil's site and mask of many faces or misty visions). Then again, warlock/3 now becomes good for 2nd-level spells (i.e. darkness) and a pact boom -- likely chain for a good familiar. Yet, all these mean that you have less sneak attack, feats/ability increases, and holding off longer and longer for bonus actions necessary to survive in combat.




3) I'll probably go for a Fiend warlock (for reasons of flavour), but which rogue archetype would be best? I don't think that swashbuckler or such fit the flavour, so we'll be sticking to the 3 in the PHB.


Play whatever is fun. However, arch fey likely better. Spells and abilities are likely far better for a rogue. Faerie fire and sleep are terrific at low levels for a sneak attack character with faerie fire remaining useful for any warlock/1 rogue/x at higher levels. For a rogue/1 warlock/x greater invisibility, misty escape, and blink are much better for you than any friend spells.



4) Assuming I take enough warlock levels to get it, which Pact Boon do you think is best?


If you are a primarily a rogue, go chain for the good familiar -- useful in scouting, distractions, and (if necessary) getting sneak attack.
If primarily a warlock, go blade -- multiple attacks in melee help ensure sneak attack. Use spells or hiding to gain advantage.




And, of course, any other advice you can give me relating to this build would be most welcome. :smallsmile:


Have fun. Just realize both will likely be pulling at each other. Warlocks are best when using eldritch blade and magic. Rogues when using sneak attack with weapons. If the campaign isn't going high, you'll be at a rather large disadvantage -- being poor at both.

[Dr. Cliché]

Any build you have fun with is fine. I've seen the build in one game. IMO, it isn't optimal. The main issue is that both classes have different approaches to damage. Rogues rely on weapons to gain sneak attack while warlocks mainly use eldritch blast and spells (primarily hex). Similar with defensive abilities. Rogues rely on bonus action disengage and uncanny dodge, warlocks spells and pact abilities. Levels in one class mean falling behind in another. Only having a few low level abilities from one class is probably not that useful.



Either is fine. However, the above comes in.

A rogue/1 warlock/x gives skills, expertise, and 1d6 sneak attack. Presumably you go for a bladelock such that at warlock/5 you'll get multiple attacks and some sneak attack. However, you are still pretty weak in melee (limited armor, hit points, and spells). So, rogue/2 it temping to get disengage and hit as bonus actions. Now, you don't get multiple attacks until 7th-level, and you've had multiple eldritch blasts since 5th. You are also giving up higher level spells to use. You don't get mirror image until 5th now. And rogue/3 becomes tempting as it means more sneak attack and more spell slots (arcane trickster). If are only going to eldritch blast, you are better without the level of rogue and gain the skills from background and/or race.

A warlock/1 rogue/x gives eldritch blast and one spell slot per short rest. Almost certain you want warlock/2 for two slots and the evocations (likely devil's site and mask of many faces or misty visions). Then again, warlock/3 now becomes good for 2nd-level spells (i.e. darkness) and a pact boom -- likely chain for a good familiar. Yet, all these mean that you have less sneak attack, feats/ability increases, and holding off longer and longer for bonus actions necessary to survive in combat.




Play whatever is fun. However, arch fey likely better. Spells and abilities are likely far better for a rogue. Faerie fire and sleep are terrific at low levels for a sneak attack character with faerie fire remaining useful for any warlock/1 rogue/x at higher levels. For a rogue/1 warlock/x greater invisibility, misty escape, and blink are much better for you than any friend spells.



If you are a primarily a rogue, go chain for the good familiar -- useful in scouting, distractions, and (if necessary) getting sneak attack.
If primarily a warlock, go blade -- multiple attacks in melee help ensure sneak attack. Use spells or hiding to gain advantage.




Have fun. Just realize both will likely be pulling at each other. Warlocks are best when using eldritch blade and magic. Rogues when using sneak attack with weapons. If the campaign isn't going high, you'll be at a rather large disadvantage -- being poor at both.

Hmm, that's rather disappointing. Oh well, thanks for your help.

[Citan]

Doing a campaign soon, and I'd like to play a Tiefling Warlock/Rogue (we'll be lv7).

Anyway, I'm looking for advice with this build:
1) First off, is this actually a worthwhile combination, or would I be better off just going with one or the other?
2) Do you think it's better to have warlock or rogue as my main class? And, how many levels should I have of the other class?
3) I'll probably go for a Fiend warlock (for reasons of flavour), but which rogue archetype would be best? I don't think that swashbuckler or such fit the flavour, so we'll be sticking to the 3 in the PHB.
4) Assuming I take enough warlock levels to get it, which Pact Boon do you think is best?

And, of course, any other advice you can give me relating to this build would be most welcome. :smallsmile:
Hi!
1) It is totally worthwhile, but splitting choice is slim though imo. Basically, both Rogue and Warlock has too good a lvl 5 feature and many goodies at 2nd level, so the safest split is 5 /2. 4/3 splits may work for some niche builds though.

2) Totally depends on what you want.

Versatile? Build on Sneak Attack for great melee damage, going TWF, keeping Agonizing Blast for ranged attacks. 16 DEX and 16 CHA make it work. Either 5 /2 split or maybe 4 / 3 (to get Mirror Image) works.

CHA only? Just pick Rogue 2 for the Cunning Action and Expertise, take Tome Pact and hammer away. You "lose" 1d6 Sneak Attack, but still worth it imo.

DEX only? Grab Mage Armor and Devil Sight from Warlock, go Warlock 3 for Darkness, then have fun sneaking in obscurity to pierce throats.

3) If your CHA is 16+, yes Swashbuckler will be the best. If you go for a DEX main build and keep CHA to 13 max, then I would rather suggest either Assassin (Darkness sneak) or Arcane Trickster (Shield / Find Familiar).

4) Simple answer: all/none, although I would have some preference for Tome.
- Chain gives you a great boon in resistance and great scout.
- Blade is nice if you go up to level 5 so you have an Extra Attack alternative for when you prefer more chances to land Sneak Attack than an after effect (Booming Blade). Even better if you dual-wield obviously.
- Tome is the one that cannot go wrong, since you have so many cantrips to choose from and potential Rituals.

My two suggestions:

1. Arcane Trickster Rogue 5 / Warlock 2
Start with 16-17 DEX, 14 CHA, as high a Constitution as possible. Grab free Mage Armor + Devil Sights invocation, learn Booming Blade and any other for cantrips, Hex and either Hellish Rebuke or Armor of Agathys as you prefer for spells.
Use the Rogue's ASI to bump DEX to 18 whichever way you want.

You are as good in range or melee thanks to high DEX.
You also get pretty decent defense: AC 17 + Uncanny Dodge.

You still have many ways to evolve beyond: Warlock 3 for Mirror Image, Darkness and a pact, then either continue Rogue or grab more Warlock depending on which other spell and feature you want.
Only thing is too low a casting stat to rely on save or suck spells.

2. Swashbuckler Rogue 3 / Warlock 4
Start with 16 DEX and 16 CHA as a Half-Elf. Pick either Tome for Rituals and potential Shillelagh (if you plan on disregarding Rogue later to continue plain Warlock) or Blade to get Extra Attack combined with Two-weapon fighting.
Grab Agonizing Blast and Mage Armor. Grab Mirror Image and Darkness.

You rely on Sneak Attack in melee and Agonizing Blast at range. Your good initiative helps with staying "in front of" the action.
If you rely on ranged, you can stay Rogue 3 as is and just pursue Warlock, bumping CHA and learning better spells.
If you rely on melee, go at least Rogue 5 and favor Blade Pact because of extra chances to attack and Lifedrinker.

I would probably end with something like Warlock 12 / Rogue 8: normal number of ASI, you can max one or both of DEX / CHA and take some nice feats (Alert, Mobile, Warcaster, Spell Sniper).

EDIT: I just realized I totally misunderstood you and that in fact you didn't like Swashbuckler. Well then, for a 3-level dip Assassin will be the best for you in the latter suggested build. Full critical Hexed Eldricht Blast will pack quite a punch. ;)