NPC Profession Classes

[Canlin Undrosh]

Has anyone ever thought of making npc classes for professions? Like a "Noble" class for like dukes and kings, or a "Scholar" class for librarians?

[Malimar]

Is there a reason you can't represent these professions with some combination of Aristocrat, Expert, other NPC classes, and PC classes?

[John Longarrow]

Has anyone ever thought of making npc classes for professions? Like a "Noble" class for like dukes and kings, or a "Scholar" class for librarians?

Noble = Aristocrat
Scholar = Expert

They are pretty useful for NPCs, especially expert.

[Caelestion]

I did, yes, years ago, based on the Expert chassis and adding a bunch of themed feat-like abilities. I then updated/changed them for 3.5 and then Pathfinder, but that's essentially all they were - Experts with a bunch of abilities to actually make them halfway playable.

[Diovid]

Has anyone ever thought of making npc classes for professions? Like a "Noble" class for like dukes and kings, or a "Scholar" class for librarians?
You can always use the 'Master' class from Dragonlance: War of the Lance. Even though it's intended for players, it's definetely at the lower end of the power and utility spectrum. Basically the class specializes in one of the following skill groups (and later in two of them): Craft, Knowledge, Perform and Profession.

[Bullet06320]

https://www.amazon.com/Legends-Lairs-Darkness-Dungeons-Roleplaying/dp/1589941586

darkness and dread has a bunch of 5 level npc classes that fit what your looking for

[Tiri]

I did, yes, years ago, based on the Expert chassis and adding a bunch of themed feat-like abilities. I then updated/changed them for 3.5 and then Pathfinder, but that's essentially all they were - Experts with a bunch of abilities to actually make them halfway playable.

Isn't the whole point of NPC classes to be unplayable in a normal game?

Not that Experts are actually unplayable anyway, being among the NPC classes the second most powerful after the Adept.

[Ruethgar]

Isn't the whole point of NPC classes to be unplayable in a normal game?

Not that Experts are actually unplayable anyway, being among the NPC classes the second most powerful after the Adept.

Psychic Adept is a lot more powerful than the Adept(even an Eberron one) and Magewrites are certainly up there as well. Experts are only better than all of those if you abuse Lucid Dreaming or maybe with Injistu Focus.

[mabriss lethe]

Funny thing: Scholar is one of the roles that Expert really doesn't fill all that well. Aristocrat handles it much better, even with reduced skill points. Sure, expert gets any 10 skills as class skills, but that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for anything else if you take a bunch of knowledge skills. Aristocrat gets all knowledge skills as class skills, on top of the rest of a pretty solid skill list.

[Canlin Undrosh]

What I'm really looking to do is have people in the world who are really hard to intimidate or bluff (nobels and such) and people who have much more knowledge than the players (scholars and the like) it's mainly to have people that have been doing these things their entire lives, like nobels would have large bonuses to sence motive, knowledge local/noble/geography (knowing their kingdom) because they've been raised for this job since birth. That kind of thing.

[Ruethgar]

Funny thing: Scholar is one of the roles that Expert really doesn't fill all that well. Aristocrat handles it much better, even with reduced skill points. Sure, expert gets any 10 skills as class skills, but that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for anything else if you take a bunch of knowledge skills. Aristocrat gets all knowledge skills as class skills, on top of the rest of a pretty solid skill list.

The Education or University Education feats cover all knowledge skills too.


What I'm really looking to do is have people in the world who are really hard to intimidate or bluff (nobels and such) and people who have much more knowledge than the players (scholars and the like) it's mainly to have people that have been doing these things their entire lives, like nobels would have large bonuses to sence motive, knowledge local/noble/geography (knowing their kingdom) because they've been raised for this job since birth. That kind of thing.

Welknair has a Noble Bloodline that would boost your max skill points for no ECL(not that that matters for NPCs) and thus make you better at all of those noble things plus give you nice, appropriate abilities for a noble to have.

Because Divinations and Guidance of the Avatar are a thing, I highly doubt any NPC will ever be significantly more knowledgeable than a PC. I mean, by level 3 a PC can literally know everything. How are you going to compete with that? An Expert with a few flaws, Education and Skill Focus would probably be fine.

[TheFamilarRaven]

You'd represent the difficult to intimidate/bluff nobles by giving them high Wisdom, more HD from aristocrat levels, and feats like Skill Focus (Sense Motive). Likewise,

Scolars can be Experts with feats like Skill Focus (Knowledge X), Skill Focus (Profession (Scholar)) or Skill Focus (Linguistics), High intelligence, more levels etc.

[Tiri]

Psychic Adept is a lot more powerful than the Adept(even an Eberron one) and Magewrites are certainly up there as well. Experts are only better than all of those if you abuse Lucid Dreaming or maybe with Injistu Focus.

Which book is Psychic Adept in? I've never seen it before.

Magewright also isn't nearly as good as Adept because it has a much weaker and more limited spell selection.

[Ruethgar]

Which book is Psychic Adept in? I've never seen it before.

Magewright also isn't nearly as good as Adept because it has a much weaker and more limited spell selection.

The Dark Sun book, it is in that sort of in-between, being officially sanctioned like Kingdoms of Kalimdor and Ravenloft. It gives an abysmal number of powers and power points, but they are Psionic so they can get NI power points like everyone else and perhaps most OP of all, they can pick from any discipline list(like say an StP Erudite's).

I said Magewrite is up there, not better than an Adept, but probably better than an Expert.

[D.M.Hentchel]

I did, yes, years ago, based on the Expert chassis and adding a bunch of themed feat-like abilities. I then updated/changed them for 3.5 and then Pathfinder, but that's essentially all they were - Experts with a bunch of abilities to actually make them halfway playable.

Can I possibly see that? It sounds awesome for the sort of games I run.

[nyjastul69]

The Dark Sun book, it is in that sort of in-between, being officially sanctioned like Kingdoms of Kalimdor and Ravenloft. It gives an abysmal number of powers and power points, but they are Psionic so they can get NI power points like everyone else and perhaps most OP of all, they can pick from any discipline list(like say an StP Erudite's).

I said Magewrite is up there, not better than an Adept, but probably better than an Expert.

I didn't find a Dark Sun book with a quick google. Is it a licensed product?

[Ruethgar]

I didn't find a Dark Sun book with a quick google. Is it a licensed product?

"This Dark Sun on–line product has been recognized by Wizards of the Coast as an Official Dark Sun
release on the Internet. The content here in is considered to be derivative work (as it is based on the intellectual property
owned by Wizards of the Coast), and the articles within are jointly owned by both Wizards of the Coast and their
authors. As such neither can do anything outside the official website without the permission of the other."

I literally just did a Google Search of: Dark Sun 3.0 PDF and it was the first link. The above is relevant text as far as the official status, however I could not find the fancy WotC Officially Licensed Content emblem like the aforementioned physical books have.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Funny thing: Scholar is one of the roles that Expert really doesn't fill all that well. Aristocrat handles it much better, even with reduced skill points. Sure, expert gets any 10 skills as class skills, but that doesn't leave a whole lot of room for anything else if you take a bunch of knowledge skills. Aristocrat gets all knowledge skills as class skills, on top of the rest of a pretty solid skill list.

Skills that you're not putting points in don't really matter, class skill or no. The expert's greater number of points, unless you get his points per level to 11 or better, are the more important aspect by a huge margin.

[Caelestion]

Isn't the whole point of NPC classes to be unplayable in a normal game?

Not that Experts are actually unplayable anyway, being among the NPC classes the second most powerful after the Adept.

My changes weren't intended for the NPC classes as such, but more to allow players to take a level or two as background fluff if they so chose without being totally gimped (or to create interesting major NPCs).

[Bohandas]

Doesn't the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book have a "noble" class?