Subverting Explosive Runes

[GilesTheCleric]

Is there any way to do it? The best I've thought of is to be illiterate, then cast Comprehend Languages, but I'm not sure if that actually works.

[Palanan]

Is there any spell that allows you to capture an image?

If so, taking an image wouldn't be reading, and the image wouldn't carry the magic with it. Landscape Screenshot could be a first-level spell. :smalltongue:

[Alent]

Mind Blank should work. As a magic trap, Exploding Runes has a divination based trigger.

Edit: Derp, remembering a house rule.

[animewatcha]

Pay a commoner to read it.

[Crake]

Cantrip: Amaneunsis, touch a book, know it's contents without reading/viewing them.

[frogglesmash]

Use Scry, Arcane Eye, a spyglass, spot checks etc. to read the runes from beyond the 10ft blast radius. This is assuming you don't care if the item the runes are inscribed on is destroyed.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Be an illumian, and be of a higher level than the caster level of the runes in question.

[frogglesmash]

Ooh, I have a good one.
Use piece of paper with a hole in it, or some similar object to cover the explosive runes so only one letter is visible, you then write this letter down on a piece of parchment along with a number to indicate it's position in the message, afterwards another character does the same thing with the following character in the message (nobody reveals their letters to each other in order to avoid understanding the message), after this a third person repeats the process after which the first goes again (I figure three people is the minimum you need to safely avoid having anyone accidentally piece the message together). Once the party has recorded all the explosive characters they may assemble the message and read it without fear of explosions.

I'm pretty sure this would work because even though all the players view some of the runes, none of them actually derive understanding from the runes directly This is effectively the same as having an illiterate person copy the runes for someone else to read without having to rely on having an illiterate person on hand.

I particularly like this method because it is both cost effective and replicable at most levels regardless of party composition, although it does require you to actually have a party on hand.

[Stealth Marmot]

The way is complicated, but I'll type it out here:

FOOLED YOU! EXPLOSIVE RUNES!

[Lord Raziere]

.......But wait, how do you know if something is explosive runes, when you haven't looked at it to find out if its explosive runes?

Because the act of reading explosive runes is what tells you they are explosive runes. The spell does not specify that these runes actually look any different from normal runes and letters, meaning the explosive runes could look no different from the words I'm writing now, not even different colors. Sure they have a magical signature for detect magic, but that still requires to look at them and thus read. you can't subvert them until you know how to detect them without triggering them.

I mean sure you can scry upon them, but how would you know to scry on it in the first place, what other source would tip you off? The very act of finding and registering that its explosive runes is the trigger for the explosion.

[ExLibrisMortis]

.......But wait, how do you know if something is explosive runes, when you haven't looked at it to find out if its explosive runes?
Most obviously, someone told you they placed the runes there. Other options include "the previous door was trapped, double-check this one", "Suel liches love magical explosive runes", and "it's what I did in my dungeon".

Still, I get your point. That's why illumians are a solid defense.

[Zanos]

Because the act of reading explosive runes is what tells you they are explosive runes. The spell does not specify that these runes actually look any different from normal runes and letters, meaning the explosive runes could look no different from the words I'm writing now, not even different colors. Sure they have a magical signature for detect magic, but that still requires to look at them and thus read. you can't subvert them until you know how to detect them without triggering them.

Detect Magic can look at auras that are behind objects but does not grant X-Ray vision. It's entirely possible to identify a magical aura as explosive runes without actually reading them.

It's also a 60 foot cone. Even if the runes were plainly visible, I'm capable of looking at 90 degree FOV without reading everything inside of it.

[frogglesmash]

.......But wait, how do you know if something is explosive runes, when you haven't looked at it to find out if its explosive runes.

The spell specifically mentions that rogues can detect them with a search check, presumably they can do this without seeing them off otherwise what would be the point. Also, isn't there a detect traps spell?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Mind Blank should work. As a magic trap, Exploding Runes has a divination based trigger.That's not accurate at all. ER is an abjuration spell (though it should be evocation, Wotc; dur). It has nothing to do with divination, even a little.


Use Scry, Arcane Eye, a spyglass, spot checks etc. to read the runes from beyond the 10ft blast radius. This is assuming you don't care if the item the runes are inscribed on is destroyed.So long as you can read it and the spell has LoE to you, you are affected by the runes. This isn't limited to 10'.


Is there any way to do it? The best I've thought of is to be illiterate, then cast Comprehend Languages, but I'm not sure if that actually works.Take a thin, stiff piece of wooden board bigger than the size of a page in the book. Cut out an 11" hole. Now press it up against the book and read through it. Since the board is bigger than the book and pressed against it, and the hole is smaller than a square foot, it blocks line of effect to you. So even if it does explode, you will remain unaffected (though the page in the book will almost certainly be destroyed).

There's also suppress glyph, in the SpC, detect magic, dispel magic, dispelling screen, antimagic ray, antimagic field, and similar.

And I swear there was a psionic power (and maybe a spell) that screened your eyes so you could safely read runes without triggering them, and I'd almost say that the power was in CPsi, though I can't seem to find it.

[edit] Ah! Eye of isolation, from Hyperconscious. Though it's not what I thought it was. It only allows you to read an [Evil] tome without suffering its normal effects.

[Rijan_Sai]

The way is complicated, but I'll type it out here:

FOOLED YOU! EXPLOSIVE RUNES!

I have nothing significant to add, but you are my favorite person in this topic right now!


...Thought (ouch...)


Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw; any other creature within 10 feet of the runes is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage.
These two lines (one bolded, one italicized for emphasis) are kind of the "sticking point" of so much debate with this spell. They seem rather contradictory ("next to" vs. "close enough to read"); however, given the fact that "close enough to read them" is in the parentheses (and thus, an explanation) the "Anyone next to the runes" part is the actual rules text, and I would wager a guess (at best) that this is meant as anyone in the same space (or possibly within 5 ft.).

Obviously, strict RAW is that you could write the runes on a giant billboard, and the first person to read it, no matter how far away, would take the full damage with no save. Ironically, this creates a minor dysfunction in that anyone within 10 ft. do get a save for half, and anyone further out, even if they are between the reader and the runes, would not be affected at all!

[Jay R]

The problem is that "next to the runes" and "close enough to read them" are set in parallel, as if they mean the same things, or as if "close enough to read them" is an explanation for "next to the runes". But they don't mean the same thing.

The DM needs to make a ruling. Either it's impossible to read them by any method from more than ten feet away, or or they can be read from a distance without setting them off, or we need to decide what happens in the case not covered by the rules.

I would interpret it as a magical explosion, rather than an ordinary one. Yes, the person who sets it off takes full damage, because they are the trigger - even if they are at a distance from it. Think of it like electricity, and the scrying spell is a conductor.

[But I'd be more likely to rule that it can't be read from any distance, to avoid the problem.]

[Alent]

That's not accurate at all. ER is an abjuration spell (though it should be evocation, Wotc; dur). It has nothing to do with divination, even a little.

I'm looking at the interaction with magical trap rules. The ER spell description says:


Note: Magic traps such as explosive runes are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the runes and Disable Device to thwart them. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for explosive runes.

How's this Abjuration detecting that it's been read and by whom without a divination trigger?

... Actually, looking more into it, it seems like some abjurations like Alarm are divinations in disguise, so I think I'll just chalk this one up to remembering an interpretation and not RAW.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm looking at the interaction with magical trap rules. The ER spell description says:

...

How's this Abjuration detecting that it's been read and by whom without a divination trigger?Because magic. Alternately, a wizard did it.

[Alent]

Because magic. Alternately, a wizard did it.

This kind of thinking drives my inner simulationist bat guano insane. :smalltongue:

[Inevitability]

Cantrip: Amaneunsis, touch a book, know it's contents without reading/viewing them.

That's Scholar's Touch you're thinking about. Amanuesis would probably just trigger the ER text.

[Troacctid]

I'm looking at the interaction with magical trap rules. The ER spell description says:



How's this Abjuration detecting that it's been read and by whom without a divination trigger?

... Actually, looking more into it, it seems like some abjurations like Alarm are divinations in disguise, so I think I'll just chalk this one up to remembering an interpretation and not RAW.
Because abjurations guard against things. How does protection from evil know whether something is evil? How does globe of invulnerability or spell turning know what level a spell effect is? How does obscure object know when someone is scrying on the object? How does shield know when there are magic missiles targeting you? How does protection from arrows know how much damage it has prevented?

The answer is, it doesn't know and it doesn't need to know. All it needs to do is block whatever it's designed to block.

[frogglesmash]

Would using Touch of Idiocy to reduce someone to animalistic intelligence prevent them from using Autohypnosis to memorize the writing (assuming that there is some way to guarantee that said individual would at least try this course of action).