Druid Spell flame blade?

[Sir cryosin]

What's the best way to use this spell? Yes the druid spell flame blade.

[Arnie82]

That's a very open ended question, with a lot of answers. You can get a lot of milage out of it with either a fighter or paladin muti classed into a sorcerer.

Edit: I just realized you ment the druid spell, correct?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Green Flame Blade?

Well, your most basic option is to pick it up via Magic Initiate and just stab people.
The most optimal option is Undying Light Tome Warlock 3/Draconic Sorcerer 6-- pop Shilleligh and stab the first turn, then use Quicken Spell on subsequent turns to land two GFBs, doing Xd8+(3*Cha) modifier to the initial target and (x-1)d8+(2*Cha) damage to the second while also using Cha to attack. (You might take an extra Warlock level for faster ASI access.)
The funniest option is to stab yourself with it and use the secondary damage to auto-hit a particularly evasive target.


EDIT: Oh, the Druid spell? Uh... actually, the aforementioned build+3 Druid Levels will still work for stacking bonus fire damage, but it's not very graceful. I guess you could throw in Fighter 2 for Action Surge to get a second swing. There's not a tremendous amount you can do with it, I don't think, because it specifically requires an action.

[Ninja_Prawn]

What's the best way to use this spell?

You're looking at this the wrong way round.

It should be "my garden is overgrown with weeds. What is the best spell to use in this situation" or similar.

[jaappleton]

I don't think it's a bad spell per se. But its bad on a Druid.

Draconic Sorcerer? Has a use. Not ideal, but has a use.

Druid? Nah.

[dejarnjc]

Use it pre-level 5 if you're fighting enemies whom are resistance to non-magic armor, are weak to fire, or just want to look cool w/out actually being overly effective (flaming sphere + cantrip is more effective in the long run albeit it requires more space). Post level 5, don't use it.

[Talamare]

Levels 3 to 4 - Use it to dominate the Melee Fighting aspect of the game

Levels 5 to 20 - If you didn't multiclass, it has now become useless

If you somehow did Multiclass, It could still be fairly strong and useful

[JNAProductions]

Levels 3 to 4 - Use it to dominate the Melee Fighting aspect of the game

Levels 5 to 20 - If you didn't multiclass, it has now become useless

If you somehow did Multiclass, It could still be fairly strong and useful

Not really-it takes an action for one swing, so Extra Attack does nothing.

[Talamare]

Not really-it takes an action for one swing, so Extra Attack does nothing.

Most people treat that as fluff text, Basically you spawn a 3d6, 1 Handed Sword Fire Scimitar

Even with all this, It's still pretty garbage

[JNAProductions]

How did you determine most people? Did you run a survey?

Because it's pretty clearly NOT fluff.

[Citan]

I don't think it's a bad spell per se. But its bad on a Druid.

Draconic Sorcerer? Has a use. Not ideal, but has a use.

Druid? Nah.
I don't understand. I'd say it is rather the opposite, for quite some time.
After all, the best a Druid could do at these low levels is 1d8+WIS thanks to Shillelagh.
When you get Flame Blade, 2nd level spell, you still didn't get any ASI to bump WIS, so with point-buy it's +3.
1D8+3 is average 7,5.
3d6 is average 3*3,5 = 10,5.

When you get lvl 5, considering you spent ASI on WIS, you have now +4.
1d8+4 = 8,5.
Flame Blade cast as 3rd level spell is 4d6, so now average 14.

It even beats Produce Flame, which just went from 1d8 (4,5) to 2d8 (9) average.

Is it the best use of your Concentration as a Druid? In most cases, probably not.
Is it competitive when you actually have to deal melee damage? Yes, totally, it is good when you get it and decent up to around class level 7 if you upcast it.

After all, Druid gets absolutely nothing beyond Shillelagh in terms of melee options (no large weapon proficiency, no Extra Attack, etc).

What I don't understand though (and really regret) is the "blade disappears if you let it go", and restricting to melee attack. I really don't think it would have broken anything to make it a conjured dagger or such that you could use as a normal one, except with WIS (would in fact make it cooler because giving a proper use of the bonus action: throw > retrieve, rinse and repeat).

I guess they were wary of some combinations such as dual-wielding or multiclass for Extra Attack, but even in that case, considering all you would have to sacrifice just to get there, it seems balanced to me...

Anyways... I wouldn't usually recommend it prepared for classic Druid builds, but for some characters (with or without multiclass) it is worth it. ;)

[Talamare]

How did you determine most people? Did you run a survey?

Because it's pretty clearly NOT fluff.

From the readings of several other popular websites when I was also curious of the spell a long long time ago.

You're free to call on whatever you want of course, and as I said even with EVERYTHING being aligned for it to do well... It's still garbage

Most doesn't mean "All" after ... all

[Asmotherion]

The only way that pops to my mind to make use of the spell would be if it counted as a weapon... Which I don't see happening except if the DM houserules otherwise. You would then need to take it via Lore Bard 6, Multiclass into Undying Light Warlock (Unearthed Arcana: Light, Dark, Underdark) a couple levels, take 10 Levels of Fire Dragon Sorcerer and finally 2 levels of paladin. You'd get to add your Cha Modifier 4 times if you used it to cast green-flame blade, and 4 more times for Quicken Spell. Witch is uneccesary, as the same combination can be done with Elemental Weapon.

Overall I see it as a useless spell that's just there for the flashy effect.

[Talamare]

The only way that pops to my mind to make use of the spell would be if it counted as a weapon... Which I don't see happening except if the DM houserules otherwise. You would then need to take it via Lore Bard 6, Multiclass into Undying Light Warlock (Unearthed Arcana: Light, Dark, Underdark) a couple levels, take 10 Levels of Fire Dragon Sorcerer and finally 2 levels of paladin. You'd get to add your Cha Modifier 4 times if you used it to cast green-flame blade, and 4 more times for Quicken Spell. Witch is uneccesary, as the same combination can be done with Elemental Weapon.

Overall I see it as a useless spell that's just there for the flashy effect.

CASE CLOSED!

Even when trying your absolute hardest to break it, you still end up mediocre

[Citan]

The only way that pops to my mind to make use of the spell would be if it counted as a weapon... Which I don't see happening except if the DM houserules otherwise. You would then need to take it via Lore Bard 6, Multiclass into Undying Light Warlock (Unearthed Arcana: Light, Dark, Underdark) a couple levels, take 10 Levels of Fire Dragon Sorcerer and finally 2 levels of paladin. You'd get to add your Cha Modifier 4 times if you used it to cast green-flame blade, and 4 more times for Quicken Spell. Witch is uneccesary, as the same combination can be done with Elemental Weapon.

Overall I see it as a useless spell that's just there for the flashy effect.
Weapon which I suppose would use your casting stat as well then?
So, any turn with Quicken, decomposed: 2*(Flame Blade damage: 3d6+CHA, 3d8 GFB effect, CHA Warlock, CHA Sorcerer).
You would end with 2*(3d6+3d8+3*5) just for first target, so an average of 78 damage per turn, sustainable all day by converting slots as Quicken SP as necessary. Or blowing everything on smite. And second target would suffer 2*(3d8+CHA+CHA+CHA) so average 37. So total average 115. For a mere 2 SP per turn beyond the initial casting turn.

Even the "single" 39+18,5 per turn, without any additional buff, is extremely good only bested by GWM or Sharpshooter martials and Rogue in the end.
And you would blow a 2nd level spell on this for the whole encounter (or several, if you Extend Flame Blade to get 20mn) instead of a 7th level spell (Elemental Weapon), although the latter also gives +3 to hit.
All that for a character "online" at character level 11 (don't see any reason for Paladin levels if not for smite): Warlock 1 / Lore Bard 6 / Sorcerer 6, which also have many other good features available when hitting in melee is not a good idea.

Thanks for this perfect illustration of build that was probably the reason WoTC didn't make it a weapon in the first place. XD

Not that I agree with them though: above build is basically a glorified (Paladin) gish which sacrificed many great high level abilities just for this. So, as in many corner builds, I think such sustained power is only at most a fair trade.

With that said, again, this is not a bad spell damage-wise at the time you get it: you are hitting as good as non dual-wielding martial (barring GWM/Sharp obviously), and just slightly under at level 5. At the time, fire resistance is fairly rare too.
The true problem is that the "melee only" effect requires Druid to risk his hide coming close to enemies. That is imo the true flaw of the spell, because Druid has neither high AC nor the evasion/mobility a Rogue/Monk could have. And no good solution (dip Rogue? By the time you get Cunning Action, spell loses worth. Mobile feat? Awfully steep price just for one spell).

Just allowing a melee attack with increased reach like Thorn Whips or Fangs of Fire Snake would resolve this. ;)

[Talamare]

CHA, 3d8 GFB effect, CHA Warlock, CHA Sorcerer

I'm fine with the 1st CHA, explain the next 2

[Citan]

I'm fine with the 1st CHA, explain the next 2
First CHA was based on the assumption you were talking of a houserule that would make Flameblade a "Shillelagh++" (you use your Charisma modifier for both attack and damage roll).
So CHA because of Flame Blade, learned through Magic Secrets.

Second CHA bonus is Undying Light Warlock's first level bonus".
Third CHA is Draconic Sorcerer's level 6 bonus, which is another source of bonus damage that just happens to be based on the same attribute. ;)

That is basically the "Pyromancer" multiclass build I suggested to someone else in another thread.
Except than you don't use Shillelagh with quarterstaff as a weapon, you would use the houseruled Flame Blade sword. It's still a matter of casting GFB, possibly twice per turn when needed thanks to Quicken.
It's also why for the best "pyromancy damage" my usual build would be better, because you could even cast a weapon buff (which all use your Concentration sadly) on your quarterstaff before casting Shillelagh (or cast Elemental Bane if you got it any way or another).
On the plus side, Flame Blade lasting 10/20 mn (with Extend) would mean you have more chances of starting an encounter ready to go, instead of spending the first turn setting up as with Shillelagh. ;)

[spartan_ah]

Flaming sphere wipes the floor with this horrible spell

[BW022]

What's the best way to use this spell? Yes the druid spell flame blade.

I'm not a fan of it due to the concentration requirement. Druids rarely have an AC of better than 16 (either barkskin or hide + shield + 2 dex). Entering melee is likely to get you hit, which brings up concentration issues. General uses for it...

a) You are buffed -- barkskin, a melee druid (say dwarf with a lot of hit points), someone else is putting a shield of faith on you, etc.
b) You are fighting relatively minor foes likely to be dropped with one hit and not likely to be swarmed (say entangled)
c) You need to set things on fire -- say web.
d) Creatures are specifically immune to fire and/or afraid of it -- some beasts, peasants, etc.
e) You are low level and don't have any other magic attacks.
f) You are really in need of a light source.
g) You have a really low strength or dexterity for normal weapons -- although shillelagh is a better primary attack.
h) You'd somehow gotten good armor -- dragon scale, slate armor, etc.

Between 3rd and 6th-level it might be an ok backup weapon if caught in melee. After that... it likely isn't that useful. The average damage is only 10.5, which isn't much more than a shillelagh (7.5) and it is a concentration spell. Against most CR 6+ creatures, you are definitely in a losing melee fight.

[Citan]

I'm not a fan of it due to the concentration requirement. Druids rarely have an AC of better than 16 (either barkskin or hide + shield + 2 dex). Entering melee is likely to get you hit, which brings up concentration issues. General uses for it...

a) You are buffed -- barkskin, a melee druid (say dwarf with a lot of hit points), someone else is putting a shield of faith on you, etc.
b) You are fighting relatively minor foes likely to be dropped with one hit and not likely to be swarmed (say entangled)
c) You need to set things on fire -- say web.
d) Creatures are specifically immune to fire and/or afraid of it -- some beasts, peasants, etc.
e) You are low level and don't have any other magic attacks.
f) You are really in need of a light source.
g) You have a really low strength or dexterity for normal weapons -- although shillelagh is a better primary attack.
h) You'd somehow gotten good armor -- dragon scale, slate armor, etc.

Between 3rd and 6th-level it might be an ok backup weapon if caught in melee. After that... it likely isn't that useful. The average damage is only 10.5, which isn't much more than a shillelagh (7.5) and it is a concentration spell. Against most CR 6+ creatures, you are definitely in a losing melee fight.
Agreed on this.
To add insult to injury, you have competitors on both sides.
For no resource, Produce Flame is a good lighter, and a decent ranged attack (so it totally covers the c) and f) use-cases).
For the same cost, Flaming Sphere, while lasting much less, has the big merit of not needing to go in melee AND use only a bonus action past the first turn.

Indeed for a pure Druid, Flame Blade is a decent spell to have for some levels, but you will certainly discard it after level 8 or so.
For multiclasses, it could be of a bit better value, but will still fall out past 11th level (notably because of GFB, which you could get with Magic Initiate or Arcane Cleric, because this one is just too good).