3.5 D&D Sith Character. Mechanics Help!

[Metahuman1]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?508709-3-5-D-amp-D-Sith-Alignment-Need-input

Ok, so, some of you may have seen or even helped on this thread. If so, thank you!


Now, having ironed out how to talk alignment, the other element the player had requested help figuring out was mechanics.


The game is going to be Gestalt, starting at levels 2 or 3 and I've no idea how long it will actually go at this time. It's going to be a monster game with Monster stuff (Level Adjustment, Racial HD, ext.) on one side. Once Monster stuff is all acquired, I'll be allowing them to take a class there. (I am going to be DMing this one.)

The premise is the party will be traveling to a continent that has recently come, essentially wholesale, up for grabs, as the creature, an insane Titan Wizard, whom had controlled it was recently killed. So, it's going be wilderness and civilization building with a fair bit of sandboxing.



The players idea, in it's entirety, was a Pixie Sith. But she's fairly new to the system. (Her first question was "Is this even possible, like, at all?" and I said yes to that much. then she asked how would you build it and what would the alignment be. I told her I'd get back to her since the not quite concluded game another person in the group is running was about to start session, and posted the linked thread above, and now this one.)

So, she's asked for help. Having worked out how to go about figuring out alignment for this concept, I'm now asking for help with the mechanics.

I'm thinking Warblade on the un-interrupted class side (Possibly with a Dip in Bard so that when she flutters into a room she can play John Williams Imperial March herself. XD! ) and Psion on the side that will have a reduced advancement for Pixie LA.

What powers and maneuver's, and what gear, should I be looking for to make this work for her and make it effective, but not over powered? And are these classes a good idea? Are there other classes that work better/or should be mixed in for better results?

Thanks!

[John Longarrow]

Sith would have as its core several abilities...
Some divination (I feel your presence... I know where you are)
Some telekinesis (Force push, lifting stuff, ect)
Mind control (Charm person and up)
And light saber (Brilliant Energy Weapon in D&D)

Sorcerer should get you that with proper spell selection. If you want to dip Mind Bender you even get telepathy and access to the feat Mind Sight.

[Virdish]

There are a couple more things that you want to look at on a sith. Particularly things in battle.

Force speed (not mentioned much in the movies but extensive in the books. There is an entire lightsaber form that relies on it.)
Dueling (a sith without skill in lightsaber combat is blasphemy regardless of what palpatine thought.)
Force lightning (it is the most iconic sith ability)

Honestly I think psionics fit tge flavor of a force wielder better than sorcerer. Though it is limiting a bit on psionic powers they certainly fit the flavor.

[Metahuman1]

I was thinking that myself. But which powers? I'm not terribly familiar with Psionics.

[Kaje]

Here's a psychic warrior Jedi build I made recently.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?504760-I-made-a-psywar-Jedi-was-quot-Psychic-warrior-without-natural-weapons-quot

[Virdish]

I'll see what I can scare up. I have the eph.

[stanprollyright]

So a couple things you want for a Sith:

1. Lightsaber
Lots of ways to do this. Flame Blade, a Brilliant Energy Weapon, Eldritch Glaive...
2. Force powers, including as many of the following as possible: lightning, telekinesis, force push, force grip/choke, mind trick, buffs, detection
So a caster. Pixie SLAs take care of mind trick and detection, and most of the other abilities can be mimicked by 4th level spells or lower.
3. ability to block ranged attacks and/or parry
Deflect Arrows, Combat Expertise, Wall of Blades, Agile Riposte
4. Tumble and Intimidate as class skills
shouldn't be a problem in gestalt
5. Rage?
Spell or Barbarian dip.

So. To put it all together, Warlock with Eldritch Glaive for your Lightsaber. Pick up blast shapes and essences like Eldritch Cone, Eldritch Chain, Repelling Blast, Sickening Blast, Bind Blast to emulate offensive Force powers, with Invocations like Leaps and Bounds, Entropic Warding, Charm, Disembodied Hand, Voidsense to emulate others.

On the other side, Barbarian. Rage, pounce, tankiness, full BAB. Trap Sense and Uncanny Dodge to represent Force spidey-senses. If you find your magical abilities lacking, dip Sorcerer and go into Abjurant Champion. You should easily be able to mimic any Force power seen in Star Wars. You really only need 1 level of Barbarian and 1 level of Sorcerer, so feel free to take levels in Fighter, Warblade, Paladin of Slaughter, or other full BAB class. Take Eldritch Theurge on the Warlock side you want to continue your Sorcerer progression.

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Combat Casting (prereq for Abjurant Champion), umm...Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise->Riposte, Improved Unarmed->Deflect Arrows, Extra Rage, Dodge->Mobility->Spring Attack...

For the record I dislike psionics, so there may or may not be an easier way to do it that way. In fact, I suspect there is, but I don't know enough about it to recommend anything. It would likely take the place of Warlock.

[Malroth]

It depends on what Sith they want to Emulate

Warblade//Warlock/ would make a pretty good Darth Maul with eldritch Glaive

Monk1/Psycic Warrior//Paladin of Tyrrany with Talshorasta would be good for Tyrranus

Telekenetic Psion// Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker For Kylo-Ren

Artificer/Renigade Mastermaker//Paladin/Blackguard for Vader

Telepath Psion/Thrallherd//Diviner Wizard/mindbender for Sidious

[zergling.exe]

And light saber (Brilliant Energy Weapon in D&D)


1. Lightsaber
Lots of ways to do this. Flame Blade, a Brilliant Energy Weapon, Eldritch Glaive...

People recommend the brilliant energy weapon to replicate a weapon that can cut through 6 feet of super steel?! Brilliant energy weapons are awful at that. They can't even damage that, let alone get through it, because they can't damage non living matter at all. No, the TRUE replication of a lightsaber is... the mind blade! That's right, the soul knife gave us the means to replicate the jedi's weapon! Too bad psychic warrior with an ACF is better than the whole class.

[Metahuman1]

People recommend the brilliant energy weapon to replicate a weapon that can cut through 6 feet of super steel?! Brilliant energy weapons are awful at that. They can't even damage that, let alone get through it, because they can't damage non living matter at all.


I'd been wondering about that. I had also been wondering how they suggested at level 2 or 3 I should justify the Pixie getting a +5 or better magic weapon.

[zergling.exe]

I'd been wondering about that. I had also been wondering how they suggested at level 2 or 3 I should justify the Pixie getting a +5 or better magic weapon.

Well the soulbound weapon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) ACF for the psychic warrior is... good at emulating the mind blade, but doesn't really work as a lightsaber. So if they could stomach 5 level of soul knife on one side (or preferably use the Dark Sun (http://athas.org/products/prc1) prestige class version instead), you could get a decent long sword lightsaber to use.

[Virdish]

Trying to emulate a lightsaber isn't going to work out well. It is just not a thing that is going to translate over well to 3.5. However not all generations of Sith have used lightsabers. In fact before the lightsaber or protosaber was developed they used swords imbued with the dark side.

[stanprollyright]

Trying to emulate a lightsaber isn't going to work out well.

That's half the fun!

[SangoProduction]

There's the Lightning Gauntlets in the MiC, which literally do the force lightning thing.

[Kaje]

Incarnum blade prc turns a sword blue.

[zergling.exe]

Incarnum blade prc turns a sword blue.

Any weapon can glow if the creator wishes it to, and a full 30% of random magic weapons glow. Aside from functioning as a torch, this could be ruled to give off light of any color desired.

[DMVerdandi]

warblade 20// Dragon 319 Erudite (with spell to power ACF)


The erudite in dragon 319 has the same features as the one in complete psionic, but doesn't suck. In the same way that complete warrior made the samurai suck, and made the shugenja and wu jen suck in the other complete books.

Anyhow, it was the one that came out first.
How it works is, it has the exact same spell slots as a wizard, except they are set at 4 as a maximum, and still function as unique power points per day otherwise. I.e 9 levels of slots (4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4).
Each of them are unique power per day slots. So if you need to manifest energy ray, you take one first level slot, and manifest it. From now, until the next day you sleep and meditate, that slot is an energy ray slot, and you can remanifest through that slot.


Convert spell to power lets you learn all arcane spells as psionic powers. Remember that you can only cast damage spells at their lowest spell level, and that spells that have somatic and verbal components still do as powers.

As far as force powers to Psionic powers and spells

Force push = Telekinetic push
Force crush = Bigby's Crushing hand
Force Lightning = Energy ray
Force speed = Haste+ Nerveskitter+ Celerity + Expeditious retreat

Mind trick and other hypnotic powers encompass all enchantment and illusion spells and telepathy powers
Force sense does the same for divinations/Clairsentience.

Ones that might particularly be good are Psionic Suggestion,Psionic Charm, Psionic Dominate
For force sense, obviously detect psionics,


Essentially, make it a really big deal each time you use any actual spells. As per the canon, Sith were differentiated from dark jedi/force adepts from the fact that they actually use magic, rather than completely surrendering themselves to the dark side of the force like the others.
Sith Sorcery is the sith taking control of the force through arcane ritual, and then bending/breaking the natural laws of the universe. Even the dark side itself is natural, but Sith Sorcery and Alchemy are a complete rejection as such.
Fluff psionics as force powers, and arcane magic as sith sorcery/alchemy.

[Grand Arbiter]

Zaydos made a Jedi (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329227-Jedi-(3-5-Base-Class-Star-Wars)) class. It's nothing fancy, but it may work.

[DMVerdandi]

Also Lightsabers are easy.

Hideaway,Energy Aura, Psychic (Blade of choice).

[Pleh]

Or you could just borrow an item from a Star Wars playbook.

Star wars Saga edition (which runs in a similar vein as 3.5 and pf) has the following stats for a lightsaber:


Lightsaber
Cost 3000 credits (typically Jedi are given their first Lightsaber by their master)
2d8 slashing and energy damage (could approximate this as fire type)
Weight 1kg
Uses an energy cell that costs 100 credits and typically lasts indefinitely
Special: lightsabers ignore damage reduction unless specifically noted otherwise

Probably wouldn't be all too broken to just uses these stats in 3.5.

[ComaVision]

I mostly agree with Warblade//Psion but I'd personally throw in some Bloodstorm Blade because I'd want to throw around my lightsaber like a boomerang.

[Tohsaka Rin]

The best way (that I've found) to emulate a lightsaber is to get an at-will item of Flame Blade, energy admixtured to be sonic/acid.

Both are rather rare in regards to energy resistance, as well as the fact that both do full damage to objects.

[Ecliptic]

Could take look at this:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2lxI7HEw-xdaUdTUXNmTzR1V2s/edit?usp=sharing

Pathfinder-based, but you can probably get some good ideas from that. Reflects light/neutral/darK sides of the force.

:)

[Malroth]

Holy crap the drawbacks on those lightsaber forms are horrible.

[Metahuman1]

Alright, so, shifting gears abit.




I'm considering offering the Player, since there playing a Gishisy set up that's actually ultimately gonna limit there actual combat power, the option to pick up the Fearie Mysteries Initiate feat. There casting is largely gonna be limited to "I sense your presence/a disturbance in the force." and trying to mimic an ultimately impractical fighting style, with a race that's size Tiny and has a strength penalty, AND with minimal damage boosters.

Is this perhaps too much, or is it reasonable under the circumstances?

[Malroth]

I'd point them towards Swordsage and Assasin's stance comblined with Shadowblade for dex to damage

[Metahuman1]

Ok, so, that was a general "Probably not" On Fearie mysteries Initiate.


So, getting back to the specific thing I keep looking for, what specific powers should I be looking into to get force powers effectively emulated?


Energy Ray for Force Lighting.

Just keep upgrading Divination and Enchantment style powers for Mind Trick/Force Mind Control and "I Sensed your presence/it in the force/searched your feelings/sense a disturbance in the force.".

Force speed: Is there a Psionic haste and/or Neverskitter with out using an Issue of Dragon Mag I don't actually have for Spell to Power Erudite that I can just have a Psion take? Apart form that, Psionic Lions Charge, Hustle, maybe whatever that power is that makes you get extra actions?

What actual Psionic powers should I do for the various telekinetic attacks/ability's and parrying ranged attacks? Also, is there a Psionic Power for improving Knowledge skill rolls aside form that one that lets you buff Int on par with Fox's Cunning? I ask cause if there is and it's good, I might have the player pick up knowledge devotion to help pay for power attacking.





Also, which tome of battle school is most likely to be good fit for a Sith Lord, Diamond Mind or Iron Heart? (Keeping in mind this Sith is size category tiny. )

[Malroth]

Shadowhand is the best Sith school followed by tiger claw and stone dragon.


As for Psionic powers good for a Sith....
Vigor, Share pain, Force Screen, Precognition:offensive, touchsight, Psionic lion's charge, Ego Whip, Energy Stun, Psionic Dominate, Hustle, Hostile Empathic Transfer, Metamorphosis, Mind seed.