Nethack

[bugsysservant]

Recently found Nethack, very addicting. I was just wondering if anyone else still plays this, and why. Also, I have trouble getting past level 10, and have heard that the dungeon goes down fifty levels. Is there some massive strategy here that I am missing out on, or do I just suck?

PS-If you haven't played Nethack, its free here - http://nethack.org/ I would definitely recomend checking it out.

[Malek]

There are people out there that play nethack, plus there are tons of other games of the Roguelike genre. For example I don't play nethack much, but instead Adom (http://adom.de), Dungeon Crawl (http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/), Tales of Middle Earth (http://t-o-m-e.net/) or just Doom, the Roguelike (http://doomrl.chaosforge.org/) ;) If you havn't tried those give them a try.

As for beating nethack, from what I've heard it boils down to beeing paranoid as hell and constant practice. And yeah, it's considered one of the hardest roguelikes.

[RedScholarGypsy]

I had a friend who played religiously, and he told me a good rule of thumb for NH is always be the same level as the floor # your on. It's insanely hard, and so easy to die, but strangely fun.

[Inyssius Tor]

Oooh, yeah. I can't get past level six (if the hunger didn't get me, it's because I ate the corpse of my last enemy and died of food poisoning), but I'll keep trying! :smallannoyed:

[Rog]

There's several things that makes the game a whole lot easier. For example, orcs have poison resistance from start, so if you play as one you can't get poisoned. an orcish barbarian is really the easiest newbie character to play... and not the worst overall either. my favorite is the wizard tough. initially very weak he or she can become a veritable power house later in the game. Also, he can learn identify if he finds a spellbook. mmmmm... being able to cast identify whenever you want....

there's lots of other things you can know to, such as getting hit by a cocatrice egg turns you into stone. if you can polymorph into a female cockatrice however, you should be able to lay eggs. when you revert back to human you should be able to have a nice little supply of instadeath eggs. well... until they start hatching atleast. Man, I have to try that...

Also, knowing how to obtain dragon scale armor is very good, and in fact knowing just what equipment you need is crucial to your survival.

But I'm ranting... I just love the game.

[DeathQuaker]

Recently found Nethack, very addicting. I was just wondering if anyone else still plays this, and why. Also, I have trouble getting past level 10, and have heard that the dungeon goes down fifty levels. Is there some massive strategy here that I am missing out on, or do I just suck?

Nethack is awesome... but a very difficult game to actually *win.* I played off and on for 10 years before I legally ascended a character. And that's not terribly unusual.

There isn't a "massive" strategy, and people preferences for strategies for success vary. But generally, these are the most common bits of advice:

1. Take it SLOWLY. It is very easy to get into a drone mode of move, hit monster, hit monster, hit monster, and then suddenly realize you've walked into a floating eye and frozen yourself, or are fighting a soldier ant who is doing way more hit point damage than you realize. (Not that the particular examples have ANYTHING to do with how I almost died and then did die playing the game last night... :smallredface: and I should definitely know better by now). Death by rote, sleepiness, or typo are common methods of dying.

2. To emphasize: keep an eye on your hit points at all times.

3. Early game, especially if you are playing a physically weaker class, don't undervalue your pet. They're actually fairly tough and can help fight off a lot of monsters for you.

4. Don't forget the gods, but don't over-rely on them either. And always, always make sacrifices to them when the opportunity strikes.

5. Don't feel bad if you want to read spoilers or enter Explore mode. Explore mode is actually great because you can experiment with some weirder aspects of the game (like dipping potions into other potions) without worrying about killing yourself. Just remember Explore mode doesn't count as "winning."

6. General order of business should involve getting good armor, and specializing in a weapon you know you'll probably be using through most of the game. Frex, Valkyries should focus on warhammers and longswords, Wizards on daggers, etc. Other important abilities to get are magic resistance, reflection, and elemental resistances. I'll leave it to you to research or experiment to find out how to do so.

7. Easiest classes to play are the die-hard warrior classes like Barbarian and Valkyrie. However, it is easy to get into mindless-hack mode with them, leading to untimely deaths. Sometimes harder classes like wizards force you to slow down and pay attention (and wizards get silly-powerful towards the end of the game. I ascended with one).

8. As old Nethack diehards have said, the Devs have thought of EVERYTHING, so be prepared.

Oh, and Bugsy, if you've made it to Dungeon Level 10, you should have already passed 2 stairways that lead to 2 side-dungeons. Perhaps exploring them would be worth your while, before you descend any further. :smallsmile:

[JellyPooga]

I played ADOM extensively before I discovered NetHack and could never be bothered to get used to the differences in the keyboard commands. I also prefered ADOM's greater emphasis on plot and quests than NetHack's "get to the bottom of the dungeon" (...well o.k. that's all there really is to ADOM too, but at least there's several dungeons to get to the bottom of in ADOM).

[DeathQuaker]

I played ADOM extensively before I discovered NetHack and could never be bothered to get used to the differences in the keyboard commands. I also prefered ADOM's greater emphasis on plot and quests than NetHack's "get to the bottom of the dungeon" (...well o.k. that's all there really is to ADOM too, but at least there's several dungeons to get to the bottom of in ADOM).

Well, realizing there are probably still more "ancient domains" in ADOM, there are still multiple dungeons in Nethack: in addition to the Dungeons of Doom, there are the Gnomish Mines, Sokoban, the Quest, Gehennom, and the Planes. I suppose Gehennom and the Planes could be considered "part" of the Dungeons of Doom as they are all connected, but still... it isn't just one dungeon.

And of course the goal isn't to "get to the bottom"; it's to get to the bottom, get back out, and go to the top to become a god. :smalltongue:

That said, it is generally a matter of taste as to which Roguelike you like best.

[bugsysservant]

Oh, and Bugsy, if you've made it to Dungeon Level 10, you should have already passed 2 stairways that lead to 2 side-dungeons. Perhaps exploring them would be worth your while, before you descend any further. :smallsmile:

I've found the mines, I think, but haven't seen anything else. And I double checked my score, and I have gotten to level 11! One neglible step in the right direction!

Also, how do you tell the alignment of an alter? It seems that whenever I sacrifice on one I piss of someone, presumably my current god.

[Inyssius Tor]

> failed polymorph
> poked floating eye, got eaten by pony

You can tell the alignment of an altar by pressing /, and selecting the altar in question.

EDIT:
> fainted with hunger, killed by wererat, looted by shopkeeper
> strangled by amulet of strangulation
> killed by little dog
> killed by another little dog
> self-defensed to death by shopkeeper

[Actana]

My best Nethack memory.

Level 1 tourist. Stepped one space to the right, got hit by a falling rock, died.

I couldn't stop laughing... Best death ever. :smallbiggrin:

[DeathQuaker]

I've found the mines, I think, but haven't seen anything else. And I double checked my score, and I have gotten to level 11! One neglible step in the right direction!

If you've passed the Oracle, somewhere you will find an up staircase that leads to Sokoban. I highly recommend looking for it--it'll help you level up in a relatively safe environment, and if you make it through the final puzzle-maze, you'll get a good magic item. Just take it slowly... the Sokoban puzzle can be confounding (has to do with pushing boulders into pits).



Also, how do you tell the alignment of an alter? It seems that whenever I sacrifice on one I piss of someone, presumably my current god.

Stand on it and press colon (shift-;). It will be white, grey, or black--lawful, neutral, or chaotic.

Although, you shouldn't be pissing off your god at altars unless you have already pissed off your god. Normally if you have good standing with your god, you'll be able to convert any differently aligned altar to your god. If your god is angry with you, you'll be converted to the other god whose altar it is.

Also, if you're lawful, don't sacrifice your pet's corpse. Don't sacrifice "human" corpses (ANYTHING represented by an @ when it is alive) unless you are chaotic. And regardless of alignment, never sacrifice a unicorn unless you're trying to shift alignment on purpose.

And speaking of altars and also of amusing deaths, my VERY favorite death happened after I had accidentally profaned an altar and happened to be wearing a certain ring. This was my summary of stats at death:

------------------
You had sinned.
You were warned.
You are dead.
------------------

[Inyssius Tor]

Don't sacrifice werecreatures, either, even when they're in animal form. Don't eat them, either (oops!).

EDIT: Oh, and don't cheat in the Sokoban puzzle (flying, tunneling, teleporting). You can do it, but it'll kill your luck.

> killed by pony while blind
> stabbed by halberd-wielding dwarf
> self-defensed to death by another shopkeeper
> blew up gas spore
> ate gnome, died of food poisoning
> kicked down invisible shopkeeper's door and was killed by him
> eaten by fox

[adanedhel9]

I've played Nethack on and off for a couple years. I generally play a Dwarf Archeologist (I had too many bad experiences starting out in an empty, doorless room).

I think the furthest I've ever gotten, I repeated fell through trap doors through something like 6 levels into what I presume is the Sokoban puzzle. I then starved to death because I couldn't figure it out (it might not have been possible, considering how I entered).

[Gungnir]

NEVER DO ANYTHING INVOLVING RELIGION if you get an alignment swap.

[bugsysservant]

If you've passed the Oracle, somewhere you will find an up staircase that leads to Sokoban. I highly recommend looking for it--it'll help you level up in a relatively safe environment, and if you make it through the final puzzle-maze, you'll get a good magic item. Just take it slowly... the Sokoban puzzle can be confounding (has to do with pushing boulders into pits).


Hmm.. I have found the oracle, but couldn't figure out how to talk to her. Also, I may have gotten to Sokoban, there was one game where I couldn't find any stairs so I just kept using a wand of digging till I got killed. Does that sound like Sokoban?

[Ailurus]

Never really got too far into Nethack myself, but I've played Angband (http://angband.oook.cz/) and its variants (including ToME (www.t-o-m-e.net) quite a bit.

The biggest thing I've learned about all roguelike RPGs is that getting even halfway decent with them takes a LOT of time and practice. I've been playing ToME on and off for years, and still have yet to beat it (I think the best I've done is getting to level 70 out of 100 in the final dungeon), and the best I've done in Vanilla angband is about level 35/100.

[DeathQuaker]

Hmm.. I have found the oracle, but couldn't figure out how to talk to her.

#chat to her. (i.e. hit shift-3, then type ch and the word "chat" will come up in the UI. Hit enter, then land the cursor on the Oracle and hit period, and you'll hear what she has to say).

If you don't know the #-key commands (or their equivalents; they can be set to function keys, etc.) that could be a large reason why you're not getting very far. There are some very important commands in that list, including #enhance, #offer, #name, etc.



Also, I may have gotten to Sokoban, there was one game where I couldn't find any stairs so I just kept using a wand of digging till I got killed. Does that sound like Sokoban?

Nope. That sounds like there was a room with a stairway in it that was hidden by a secret door, and you didn't find it, so just zapped your way deeper into the Dungeons of Doom until you either died of falling damage or a were killed by a monster that was too powerful for you.

Sokoban will be found usually around Dungeon of Doom level 7. There will be an UP staircase leading to it; it will not be hidden in any way (although of course the room that it is in may have a secret door that leads to it). You will find yourself in a very small area, with lots of boulders in it, and you will find you can only push the boulders horizontally and vertically. You will also find that before the next stairway up, there are several pit traps. The puzzle is to successfully push enough boulders into the pits so you can cross them safely.

There's generally also a decent amount of food and treasure there, so it's worth your while looking for it, especially if you want to level up and improve your stash.

[Ethdred]

Slight tangent, but why are these games called roguelikes?

[jamroar]

Slight tangent, but why are these games called roguelikes?

The first game of the type which started the entire genre was Rogue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_%28computer_game%29).

[War]

Ahhh, NetHack! A great game about dying a lot. I had my first and only ascension earlier this year, and I'm not sure how long I'd been playing it but it was definitely more than five years. That sort of thing is pretty common. It was also a lot of the inspiration for my name here on the forums...

As for other roguelikes, I've played around with ADOM a bit. The sheer complexity of it is both intriguing and overwhelming, so I don't think I'm going to make any serious long-term play at it till I've got NH quite thoroughly mastered. I tried Dungeon Crawl and didn't like it. And there's always SLASH'EM, but that's pretty much just more nethack.

Anyway, to clear up the sacrifice stuff from earlier: sacrificing and eating humans isn't a problem. Sacrificing and eating your own species is (unless you're chaotic for the sacrifices, or a caveman or orc for the cannibalism). Sacrificing unicorns can also be good or very bad, dependent on the color of the unicorn, the alignment of the altar, and the alignment of your god.

NH really is very much about knowledge. It's filled with things that are very dangerous and give you little warning ingame, but are easily avoided or dealt with if you know how; learning how to figure out what items are is also huge. Dying is a great source of information, but the internet is filled with compilations of this stuff -- many believe that it's not even possible to win the game with no outside help, although some have come awfully close (http://roguelikes.sauceforge.net/pub/nethack/stories/). I can assure you firsthand that reading up on the game does not make it incredibly easy :smallbiggrin: but it's up to the individual how much they want to lean on those sources. Discovery is fun, and if you're simply talking to other people for advice, you can always ask them to be vague!

Otherwise, experiment. I say roll up a bunch of wizards and do everything you can possibly think of to do with all their neat magical starting junk. You may be surprised.

[itsmeyouidiot]

Recently found Nethack, very addicting. I was just wondering if anyone else still plays this, and why. Also, I have trouble getting past level 10, and have heard that the dungeon goes down fifty levels. Is there some massive strategy here that I am missing out on, or do I just suck?

PS-If you haven't played Nethack, its free here - http://nethack.org/ I would definitely recomend checking it out.

Rouglikes (Nethack, Slashem, etc.) are well-known for being notoriously difficult. Those that manage to beat the game in nethack are some of the most respected nerds on the internet.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I love Nethack. Awesome game. I've been playing on-and-off for a couple of years now.
Farthest I ever got was a human Barbarian on Sokuban (level4/6). Killed by rotten orc corpse.
This is, mind you, right after I had defeated one gold golem, one paper golem and numerous wererats.
I also fought the wererats naked (I had stripped to get on the other side of my boulder and fix a mistake I made).

Most anti-climatic death ever.
One of my "best" death, however happened to a level one samurai on level one of the dungeons. After a scant 41 turns.
I really need to stop kicking sinks.

[factotum]

Is it just my imagination, or is this a classic example of thread necromancy? :smallannoyed:

[Thanatos 51-50]

:eek:
That it is.
Oops. I don't normally check post times, but this thread was on top when I wrote the reply.