Need Advice on Making a Dwarven Runesmith

[KingFerret]

So after my current campaign is all wrapped up (thanks to those on this forum who helped me on digging myself out of a dm shaped hole) I'm going to be playing in a campaign run by a friend and my character concept is a Dwarven Runesmith based on those in Warhammer.

For anyone not familiar with Warhammer, a Runesmith is a heavy armoured, shielded, frontline melee tank whose primary offence is his runic axe. His main abilities however are his runes, which take the shape of a mix of utility, buffing and some direct damage spells - but most importantly spell denying and other anti-caster goodness.

So my current plan is to take fighter at level 1 to grab weapon, shield and heavy armour proficiencies, take the defense fighting style for tankiness and the heal will also be nice.

From there I multiclass into wizard and take that the rest of the way, utilising abjuration to give me hit points, improved counterspell and spell resistance (all of which fit the theme very nicely).

The spells I've identified as fitting the theme would be Shield, Counterspell (of course), Stoneskin, Fireshield and Wall of Stone

My question is if anybody has ever played a character like this before and knows if it is viable? I don't necessarily have to be the strongest character, but I don't want to be a detriment to the party.

Also does anybody know if there is any way to concentrate on multiple spells at the same time? So many buffs I want require concentration... :smallannoyed:

P.S

Will I be tanky enough to stay on the frontlines? I'll have 21AC from full plate, shield and Defense style, plus the ability to buff myself with Shield, Blur, Mirror image and gain HP from abjuration spells and second wind. Is that enough to offset a mediocre Constitution and D6 hit die for most of my levels?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Quoxis]

My question is if anybody has ever played a character like this before and knows if it is viable? I don't necessarily have to be the strongest character, but I don't want to be a detriment to the party.

Also does anybody know if there is any way to concentrate on multiple spells at the same time? So many buffs I want require concentration... :smallannoyed:

I didn't ever play one, but a fighter/wizard gish sounds ok. Your tank capabilities are dependent on how many levels of each class you take (fighter 1/wiz 19? Bad, even with the heaviest of armor; fighter 19/wiz 1? No big difference to full fighter), but you'll want more than just a few wizard levels to get the tasty spells.

As always with multiclasses: you drop a little bit of a pure class' power to get versatility it lacks. It'd be definitely viable (even with spell slot management if you go eldritch knight) in my opinion.

Make sure to prioritize CON for both concentration and survival in combat if you want to dive into it head first.

Concentration on multiple spells is simply impossible,* it'd have to be homebrew, but good luck finding a DM willing to grant you this.
Possibilities to work around it are to have a buddy cast spells on you or to try to find spells with similar effects that don't require concentration. I'd read up on those, even if they're not on your spell list: maybe you can convince your DM to make an exception and add it, or you can dip into the needed class if you really need it (though that would make your build pretty MAD).


*at least by RAW of the official material, UA excluded (i have no clue about those)

[KingFerret]

Sorry I'm a little unfamilair with some of your terminology. Is Gish a race in one of the supplementary texts? If so I'm afraid I don't own any of them. I've been tempted by Green Flame Blade as I have heard it is a strong spell for melee casters but I'm loath to ask my DM for advantages some of the other players might not even be aware of (we are all very new players).

Also what is MAD? Something to with a need for lots of stats?

[Aett_Thorn]

Sorry I'm a little unfamilair with some of your terminology. Is Gish a race in one of the supplementary texts? If so I'm afraid I don't own any of them. I've been tempted by Green Flame Blade as I have heard it is a strong spell for melee casters but I'm loath to ask my DM for advantages some of the other players might not even be aware of (we are all very new players).

Also what is MAD? Something to with a need for lots of stats?

Gish = general term for a spell-blade type character. Someone who mixes spells and melee combat.

MAD = Multiple Ability Dependent. A character that needs to have high scores in multiple abilities to function well.

[KingFerret]

Gish = general term for a spell-blade type character. Someone who mixes spells and melee combat.

MAD = Multiple Ability Dependent. A character that needs to have high scores in multiple abilities to function well.

Ah thanks! Forunately I did roll extremely well for my stats with two seventeens a fifteen and the other scores no lower than a ten. That exceptional rolling was what actually led me to want to do a slightly unorthodox or MAD character to begin with.

As for the levels my working plan is to go fighter at level 1 and then wizard 19. I might pick up a second level of fighter if I feel like I really want that action surge ability, but I'm struggling to see it being all that powerful right now. Once per long rest just seems a bit limiting to me.

[Scirocco]

Roll a straight Forge Cleric (from Unearthed Arcana) probably with the Clan Crafter background (or whatever you like really...)

Gish = absurd, disgusting onomatopoeia-ish word (with an odd history) for spellsword or fighter-mage

[Warlawk]

I might pick up a second level of fighter if I feel like I really want that action surge ability, but I'm struggling to see it being all that powerful right now. Once per long rest just seems a bit limiting to me.

I believe it is actually per short rest so you should be getting several uses per day. It can be very thematic for what you're trying to do as well. Bury your axe in the skull of some filthy ork and then trigger one of the runes on your axe to cast a spell, that sort of thing. More HP is not a bad deal for someone who will be getting into the thick of things. You might even consider going to 3 and taking battlemaster then fluffing the battlemaster maneuvers as runes on your weapon. When you strike them a rune flares and appears on the ground beneath them, blasting them off their feet with a wave of magical power (Trip attack) or when you are hit by an attack a rune on your armor flares, deflecting some of the force of the blow (Parry). Seems like it could be a great way to get the feel of being a Runesmith without your 'magic' being strictly limited by X castable slots per day.

That's just my take on things though. Sounds like a great character, love me some dwarves!

[KingFerret]

Roll a straight Forge Cleric (from Unearthed Arcana) probably with the Clan Crafter background (or whatever you like really...)



The main problem with supplementary materials is the cost. As someone who has recently forked out a good deal to acquire the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's guide and Monster Manual, I find it difficult to justify to myself (let alone my wife) spending more on yet more rules books.

Admittedly though a forge cleric does kind of sound like what I'm after. Can you give me some details as to what they do? I don't want to be tempted to spend more, but if they really really fit well - what can a mortal man do?

I love the idea of RPing Maneuvers as runes and it really fits. Reading through the Battle Maste right now some of these maneuvers seem REALLY powerful. The trip attack gives +D8 damage and a status affect that causes enemies to have disadvantage on attacks and gives you AND allies advantage on attacks. Am I right in that reading???

[Coyote81]

Long time Warhammer Fantasy Fan here:

I really love the idea of Rune Smiths, but using actual spells to represent runes seems to...."Anti-Dwarf" imo.

They did release Rune Scribe UA a while back, it's supposed to be the first attempt at a prestige class, it requires level 5 in something else, but I think it would well for you.

Trying to minimize the amount of spells we use, this is my idea:

Mountain Dwarf (You'll need 13 dex and 13int, but other then that you could focus Strength/con)

Eldritch Knight 5 -This gets you wizard cantrips so you can cast Green Flame Blade (Fiery rune) or Booming Blade (Lightning rune). You get weapon bond at level 3 (Runic Weapon) ,as well as a 2nd attack at level 5.

At this point you switch to Rune Scribe. http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/UA_Rune_Magic_Prestige_Class.pdf

There are so many utility moves you can do with this class.
-All runes give +hit/+damage depending on spell slot used to cast rune.
-Fire Rune, great for increasing the average damage of you green flame blade, receive cold resistance, and to top it off you can autohit with fire damage in needed situations
-Earth Rune, great for adding a bit of control, if you use a Club (which deals 1d4 damage) you have a 25% of Auto-Proning enemies, you also get some area control with some movement zoning.
-Cold Rune, you get some slowing affects and a cold frost armor ability, as well as Fire Resistance
-Wind Rune, some great ranged utility, some knockdowns and flight/fall

This will take you to level 10. At this point, what you want to do is all up to you. Take fighter to 12 for 3rd attack and another ASI, as well as a couple more Eldritch Knight abilities. Leaving you with 3 levels for a solid ability grab from a different class (You qualify for quite a few with Str13,Dex13,Int13.


The main problem with supplementary materials is the cost. As someone who has recently forked out a good deal to acquire the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's guide and Monster Manual, I find it difficult to justify to myself (let alone my wife) spending more on yet more rules books.

Admittedly though a forge cleric does kind of sound like what I'm after. Can you give me some details as to what they do? I don't want to be tempted to spend more, but if they really really fit well - what can a mortal man do?

I love the idea of RPing Maneuvers as runes and it really fits. Reading through the Battle Maste right now some of these maneuvers seem REALLY powerful. The trip attack gives +D8 damage and a status affect that causes enemies to have disadvantage on attacks and gives you AND allies advantage on attacks. Am I right in that reading???

UA Material is free btw. Just check the D&D website

[Daehron]

Also does anybody know if there is any way to concentrate on multiple spells at the same time? So many buffs I want require concentration... :smallannoyed:

Welcome to 5th Edition. Can only concentrate on one spell at a time. It is a feature.

Wizard (Abjurer) / Fighter (Eldritch Knight) is a solid build at a number of multiclass splits from 2/18 to 8/12. Easily re-fluffed for a dwarf Runesmith / Runewielder.

[KingFerret]

The Rune Scribe looks interesting enough (particularly nice that it's free too) but imo it misses the main point of Runesmiths, which is the dispelling magic.

A little backstory/confession here, as a Warhammer Fantasy player I own a humble Tomb King legion, while my DM owns a dwarven host and we've played countless games against each other since we were in school.

One of the most ubiquitous points of our various skirmishes is that he will have, at minimum, three runes of spellbreaking. Usually he prefers five or six. No idea why he always goes overboard with the dispel magic, *cough* I'm sure it has nothing to do with that time I Purple Sunned his hammerer horde and slaughtered his most elite unit and all his characters *cough*

So you could say that this character is an homage to him and the frustrations my magic based army has experienced from endless runes of spellbreaking. So it should be obvious that as far as I'm concerned, if the character doesn't have Counterspell or equivalent, it doesn't really count

[KingFerret]

Welcome to 5th Edition. Can only concentrate on one spell at a time. It is a feature.

Wizard (Abjurer) / Fighter (Eldritch Knight) is a solid build at a number of multiclass splits from 2/18 to 8/12. Easily re-fluffed for a dwarf Runesmith / Runewielder.

Yeah I had heard that concentrate was a hard limit of one. Was still kinda hoping that there was some way around it, some feat or class feature I could multiclass into that I hadn't noticed. Never mind, I'll just have to restrict my buffing shenanigans to something a little less than ludicrous :smallbiggrin:

2/18 does seem to be the way I'm leaning right now. As the eighteenth level wizard class feature seems too ridiculous to potentially miss out on, even though this character might never make it that far.

[Scirocco]

The main problem with supplementary materials is the cost. As someone who has recently forked out a good deal to acquire the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's guide and Monster Manual, I find it difficult to justify to myself (let alone my wife) spending more on yet more rules books.

Admittedly though a forge cleric does kind of sound like what I'm after. Can you give me some details as to what they do? I don't want to be tempted to spend more, but if they really really fit well - what can a mortal man do?

It's free, check it out at the Wizards site: http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Cleric.pdf

[KingFerret]

It's free, check it out at the Wizards site: http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Cleric.pdf

Well damn. I can't say I find any of those domains that inspiring to be honest - but hell whoever said no to free content added to a game they love? The channel divinity seems like it probably has some creative uses but I've got nothing off the top of my head. The 17th Level ability looks hilariously fun for a tanky character.

Again though the problem is the lack of Counterspell. For me that ability to just say "nope" whenever a big bad cackling caster is channelling some ludicrous spell is absolutely the essence of the character.

[Trum4n1208]

[QUOTE=KingFerret;21495367]The main problem with supplementary materials is the cost. As someone who has recently forked out a good deal to acquire the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's guide and Monster Manual, I find it difficult to justify to myself (let alone my wife) spending more on yet more rules books.[QUOTE]

You're actually fine there. Unearthed Arcana material is completely free. Just have to google it and get approval from your DM to use it.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see that someone had already beaten me to the punch. Good luck with your character, it sounds like a fun one.

[Flashy]

You seem fairly settled, but I still wanted to throw Valor Bard out there. Pick up Counterspell with your 10th level magical secrets (only two levels after you'd be getting it in fighter 2/wizard 18), actually get extra attack, refluff the bardic inspiration as ready-use support runes. It lacks the blasty magic of a wizard but I don't have the impression that's important to the concept.

[MrStabby]

You seem fairly settled, but I still wanted to throw Valor Bard out there. Pick up Counterspell with your 10th level magical secrets (only two levels after you'd be getting it in fighter 2/wizard 18), actually get extra attack, refluff the bardic inspiration as ready-use support runes. It lacks the blasty magic of a wizard but I don't have the impression that's important to the concept.

This can work.

Bladelock might also work for you, although you might want some re-fluffing. Fiendlock 5 will get you 2 counterspells per short rest and 2 attacks. Being a dwarf will get you more HP and some semi decent armour. Going fiendlock 6 is well worth it as Dark ones own luck helps you be even more effective at counterspelling. The fiendlock also plays well with temp HP form it's level 1 ability.

If you can use unearthed arcana I would consider dipping a level of Forge cleric. It would get you the heavy armour, the shield spell and some other great support spells like bless (helping saving throws is like a lesser version of counterspell right?)